Chaos Termies - why say they suck?

[Excessus]

Problem with the key is still that you have a 67% chance of having no use of it...

[Sception]

Would it be that bad to ally with the main codex Mal? In doing so it gives you axcess to another Hq (for the Key), another of the precious fast attack slots, and another slot to take more obliterators or perhaps a daemon engine if you so desire.

 

I avoid running allies as a general rule - there aren't points enough to run what I'd like out of a single book most of the time - and when I do run alies I prefer something that can add a bit of variety to my force as opposed to just being 'more of the same'.  Like borrowing some of my friends' guard for more of a lost and the damned feel, or allying daemons to emphasize the 'chaos' part of 'chaos marines'.

 

And I'm certainly not going to ally the parent book for the dimensional key.  I had my fill of trying to force that item to work long before the Black Legion supplement was released, the whole time feeling like I was trying to fight against my own codex for permission to play with my models.  It was unbelievably frustrating.  Larger deep striking terminator escorts were a central, even defining part of my army for third, fourth, and fifth editions, and it was only with much bitterness and gnashing of teeth (and wailing and whining that continues to this vary day) that I finally just gave up on trying to make them work in 6e.

 

I'm still very angry about it.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Would it be that bad to ally with the main codex Mal? In doing so it gives you axcess to another Hq (for the Key), another of the precious fast attack slots, and another slot to take more obliterators or perhaps a daemon engine if you so desire.

I'm still very angry about it.

I think most of us get the general feeling that your a bit upset with the current codex

[Xenith]

Saying I usually can't find points for terminators is saying I generally can't find points for anything from our elites section at all, which is a shame, as several of our more iconic units, terminators included, live there, and given our fluff and the overall character of our faction, the elite's slot should be one of our most important unit categories.  It's where the heresy era legionnaires should live, ruling like debased warrior-kings over the clattering rabble of post-heresy renegades, newly created chaos marines, and degenerate cultists that should comprise the bulk of our army.

 

Now there's an idea I can get behind. If GW are trying to differentiate between SM and CSM, why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

Like the structure of the Orks, but marine training and with power armour: orks become tough through constant warfare: the toughest orks lead squads , have better stats than regular grunts etc. The ork army has meat shields, crazy weaponry/vehicles etc.

[Warsmith Aznable]

why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

They sort of did this with the current codex. In smaller games I find myself being limited to 1 group of CSM in the troops choice with Cultists running along side them if I want to be able to afford the bigger toys in the codex. Cultists just aren't as good as Guardsmen, but then, they wouldn't be would they?

[Hellios]

 

why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

They sort of did this with the current codex. In smaller games I find myself being limited to 1 group of CSM in the troops choice with Cultists running along side them if I want to be able to afford the bigger toys in the codex. Cultists just aren't as good as Guardsmen, but then, they wouldn't be would they?

 

If we had Blood Pact... and the likes...

[the jeske]

 

why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

They sort of did this with the current codex. In smaller games I find myself being limited to 1 group of CSM in the troops choice with Cultists running along side them if I want to be able to afford the bigger toys in the codex. Cultists just aren't as good as Guardsmen, but then, they wouldn't be would they?

Hmm I got a lord , sorc , guess they count as csm and bikers hmm . rest is cultists and demons . So yeah technicly we are all playing a RT era army , representing a planet scale invasion of chaos forces [miniscule number of csm vs other types of chaos dudes taking part] .

[Chaeron]

 

 

why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

They sort of did this with the current codex. In smaller games I find myself being limited to 1 group of CSM in the troops choice with Cultists running along side them if I want to be able to afford the bigger toys in the codex. Cultists just aren't as good as Guardsmen, but then, they wouldn't be would they?

 

If we had Blood Pact... and the likes...

Having the option for both them and Cultists would be superb.

[Xenith]

 

why not make SM all power amrour, and CSM a hotch-potch horde, kind of like the tyrants legion list, with heavy troops and cannon fodder.

 

They sort of did this with the current codex. In smaller games I find myself being limited to 1 group of CSM in the troops choice with Cultists running along side them if I want to be able to afford the bigger toys in the codex. Cultists just aren't as good as Guardsmen, but then, they wouldn't be would they?

 

Oh, I totally agree, adding cultists is the best thing chaos has seen in...10 years? And it takes them a step in the direction of Lost and the Damned. 

 

 

I guess that's what we have now, really: Legions of cultists desecrating objectives in the name of chaos, loads of gibbering spawn rushing toward the enemy, shepherded by CSM on bikes with a powerful leader...while screaming daemon engines litter the sky.

[Sception]

The new codex seems to push in that direction, but it doesn't feel like a deliberate thing. Cultists are still only one choice in the book, there aren't lost & the damnedish choices in any other force org category (apart from arguably spawn in fast). There's still a dozen different power armored units scattered throughout the book, it's just that nobody uses most of them because they're kinda meh at best. And even the typical prince/cultist/drakes/nurlits/allies set up doesn't really feature or emphasize the cultists, or even deploy them at the start of the game, they're just msu reserves that move onto objectives mid game and hope the opponent is too busy to bother with them. It really is an army with no <em>army</em> there at all, power armored, horde, or otherwise. Of the more common casual builds, you see plague marines, noise marines, interspersed bikes or spawn with maulers, but only Typhus or Necrosius plague spam really emphasizes the cultist element as an actual thing, instead of just something cheap to surreptitiously sneak onto your backfield objectives mid game.<br /><br />I'd love to see a version of chaos where mutants and cultists are actually the bulk and backbone of the fighting force, with marine elements serving more as commanders (chosen chaos marine champions as squad leaders for cultist & mutant rabble) and elite shock troops (chosen in assault transports or deep striking terminators). Instead of raptors and bikes, you might have cultists riding daemonic steeds and dark mechanicus scouting spider-sentinels, but your chosen could be upgraded with bikes or jump packs. Instead of havoks and there might be cultist artillery crews and dark mech daemonic weapon servitors, but your chosen could be given multiple heavy weapons if that was your style. That sort of thing.