Arufel87 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hey folks. After being an avid Tau collector I've decided to switch after having the entire army buffed into the realms of ridiculous cheese. I've always fancied a go at the guard so I've picked up a few bits. I'm planning to play down at the club with a few stand ins at the weekend. Just looking for some advice on whether this would work at all? Here goes- CCS, 2 Plasma Guns, Chimera PCS, 4 Flamers, Chimera Infantry Squad, GL, AC Infantry Squad, GL, AC Veteran Squad, 3 Melta Guns, Chimera Leman Russ Manticore Inquisitor, ML1, Servo Skulls Aegis Defense Line, Quad Gun The infantry squads would combine behind the Aegis and the inquisitor mans the quad gun. He can buff the manticores accuracy and make things difficult for enemy deployment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Looks like a pretty solid list to me. Some might recommend replacing the two plasma guns in the CCS with a heavy weapon to use their chimera as a backfield armoured lascannon (or whatever you choose), but then again the two BS4 plasma guns are a good threat against terminators and the like. I like it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionofjudah Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 If you can squeeze in the other 2 PGs in the CCS ...go for it. 4/8 bs 4 shots are better than 2/4;) HOnestly Id recommend picking a method of your guard madness and go all out. The combined arms aspect at 1k can really tear your opponent up if you go all armour or all foot. Having some stuff sitting behind the aegis is nice and we are guard and numbers is what matters. I would also recommend getting another pie plate disher outter as the 1 manti and 1 LR are gonna be target priority numero uno...especially against those pesky Tau ;) Also, maybe think about giving the Vets PGs as well as melta vets, while nice, arent as dual effective as PGs are. Of course, I love plasma for everything so take that with a grain of salt. I like the Inq in there to give a lil character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Welcome to the Guard, the original shooty army! :D I like your list, it's pretty strong and you clearly have a good grasp of the rules/units. I'm assuming this means your CSs and Vets will be attacking the enemy but I do wonder if you might have some difficulty protecting your expensive back field units with a single blob squad. As good as a Manticore is perhaps something a bit cheaper and less flashy might be something to think about? I'm sure that your opponent will waste no time in going for it. Like lion said at 1000pts you have to carefully balance your plans and I'm concerned something like a drop pod could ruin your party. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks for all of the feedback guys, really helpful stuff! @lionofjudah I would love to go for an armoured fist company but I just don't see how it can work in this edition. Every time I have seen a chimera wall it has either been glanced to death or completely annihilated by necrons, farsight bomb & drop pod lists. On the other hand I don't really fancy the footslogging approach as it pains me to remove models en masse! But that might just be me not thinking like a commander should hence the combined arms approach. @warriorfish I chose the manticore because I believed that it would benefit most from prescience from the inquisitor but I agree it does paint a big target on it's head. What other artillery would you recommend or do you advocate doubling up on russes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingy139 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As Warriorfish mentioned, instead of a manticore, look for something a little less flashy. I would recommend a Basilisk. At only 125pts you'll be getting a huge gun that will probably be able to shoot across most boards you will encounter. Furthermore the manticore has limited ammo. At S9 AP3 your looking at ruining most peoples day with the Basiliks Earth shaker rounds. For the lower cost you still maintain the special rules of Ordance, Barrage and large blast. I have found that a Basilisk holding your deployment Zone and a Leman Russ Battle tank running amuck around the battlefield is a potent mixture. In regards to your theory of having two Leman Russ battle tanks that could become quite expensive once fully kitted out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 To be fair pretty much everything benefits from prescience! Kingy is right in that a Bassie would be a budget version and be less of a fire magnet but it doesn't solve the issue of your backfield feeling a bit thin. There is only so much you can do in 1000pts though. My gut says investing in some more Guardsmen could help, they can throw more fire power out and help protect the Russ which would still be good. As it stands your list is good and will dish out a lot of hurt, but it could lose effectiveness quickly if your opponent can hit it in the right places. At lower points I like things like Sentinels and Hellhounds to provide some durability and damage cheaper, but I don't want to suggest anything too different from your original plan. Edit: Almost forgot to say welcome to the B&C Kingy! The sons of Dorn are always welcome here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 So it is probably worth cutting down on chimeras and getting more bodies instead then. I would only ever field naked russes as I think that sponsons are not worth snap firing and it also keeps them at a reasonable cost. I understand about the weakly defended backfield and I might write a new list with Coteaz. I can use his 'i've been expecting you' rule to put down some real hurt on deep strikers from a big guard blob. Would you suggest putting artillery behind the Aegis and bubble wrapping or keeping them completely out of Line of Sight? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Could do, though it would reduce the effectiveness of your forward elements such that I would reconsider their use. 5 Guardsmen armed like that on foot coming for the enemy probably won't get far. Sponsonless ordnance Russes are a good way of retaining effectiveness while being cheaper, so that's a good idea especially at lower points. It depends on your opponent and the table, for example if you're up against someone with good long ranged AT you're probably better of hiding out of LoS. It's the best protection you can get of course, though you'll be less accurate. Generally I like to have mine stay in cover protected by Infantry Squads but don't be afraid to trundle them out to get a better shot if you need to :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ok so here goes a revised list.... CCS, Lascannon (70) PCS, 4 Flamers, Chimera (105) Infantry Squad, GL, AC (65) Infantry Squad, GL, AC (65) Infantry Squad, GL, AC (65) Veteran Squad, 3 Plasma Guns,Chimera (170) Leman Russ (150) Basilisk (125) Coteaz (100) Aegis Defense Line (50) I figured that coteaz would offer protection from deep strikers and provide reliable buffs. I've lost the quad gun but if necessary prescience on the ACs should do the job. I've still got 35 point left. Any suggestions? Am I going in the right direction with this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3582624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The Guard codex is pretty versatile, so the "right direction" is fairly accommodating but this does look more flexible than the original list. You've more troops to help cover your defensive elements but your attackers still have some punch. Your Guardsmen will be sitting back and Autocannoning most things so the Grenade Launchers might not get to do much. If you added their points to your loafing 35 then that gets you a bare bones Infantry Squad - perfect for standing watch over your Russ and Bassie! Worth a thought, the other thing is you don't have anything specifically for AV14 though your Bassie and Russ could handle it I'd feel safer with a melta somewhere. Maybe swap a Vet plasma for melta? It would give you a good AT option and also free up enough points for something like a flamer on the naked squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3583158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingy139 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 For 35 points you could get yourself a Sentinel which would give you some fast attack which could redeploy quickly were needed. Take off the grenade launchers from your squads which probably wouldn't be doing much anyway and then you have enough points to equip that sentinel with anything from a heavy flamer to a lascannon. This could help solve your AT problems. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3583164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Thanks guys that helps a lot. Just one final question do you rate heavy flamers on chimeras and russes or prefer heavy bolters? I can see uses for both but it doesn't seem to be an obvious decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3583184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah a Sentinel would be good too, it could run with your advancing units or hang back for fire support or outflank! Hull heavy flamers are great because they're free and give the vehicle some real punch if the enemy gets too close. Only heavy infantry will get a save and you can get a lot of hits, if you get enough of them you can make assaulting your vehicles a very dangerous prospect. So on artillery I recommend a HF as they're most at risk of enemy assaults, plus should you lose the main gun a HB isn't going to make much difference. For Chimeras and Russes it depends on what you want them to do. If a Chimera is hanging back for example transporting a CS then a HB lets it be quite effective at longer range. A HF is also a good backup on a sponsonless Russ and great for Chimeras that close on the enemy as it lets them flush out enemy infantry to protect your troopers as they do their job. There's also the turret HF if you want, which can make a flamer PCS of doom that much nastier! In short: heavy flamers are good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3583220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 would someone please get warriorfish off the promethium tanks again? he's been inhaling fumes again! personally i find it hard to field so little transports going forward, but than again i pretty much only face off against tau+necrons. either way, an alternative to the sentinel could be a griffon although i would really field more guardsmen. now, since you've already ditched the quadgun, why not replace the aegis defense line with another squad of guardsmen? the board should already have plenty of cover for them to hide in and in the imperial guard more troops is never a bad thing ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3583353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 I had a game this morning and got owned by Tau haha... Sad because it's an army I understand. I used the list above but couldn't break out of my deployment zone. The chimeras were both stuffed by a unit of HYMP broadsides in opening turns and I ended up being target practice for riptide and hammerhead large blast spam. The squad at the back held an objective admirably though and the basilisk did nail a unit of fire warriors. I ended up wishing I had another russ though as even longstrike struggled to break that thing open! Hard as nails! I'm starting to think either going big with chimeras or not bringing any at all is the way to go. I've got another battle tomorrow against necrons so will report back then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3584059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Unfurtunatly both tau and necrons are some of the harder opponents for any imperial army due to their AT/long range fire capabilities which easely rival ours. Good luck! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3584864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 I'll have you know those promethium fumes smell like victory! A Riptide at 1000pts seems pretty harsh, Guard can struggle a little a lower points as you can't get the units in you want but don't give up! It sounds like you might need to optimise your list and focus your strengths. So you're correct on mechanisation, "go big or go home" is my favourite way of summing it up With Guard that can work very well as you can put a lot of armour on the board if you want and if you go the other route then those points translate into a hell of a lot of Guardsmen! So while the xenos scum might think their toys make victory easy they underestimate the tenacity of humanity as we have some tricks of our own! Maybe an outflanking Sentinel or two might put some wind in your sails? Shooting aside they're also quite handy in assaults as many back field units can't fight their way out of a paper bag (or are vehicles), plus you don't even have to win as merely locking them in assault can make all the difference! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3585304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hi guys just thought I'd report that the necrons took a mauling at the hands of the guard. The objectives favoured me this game and he fielded a lot of footslogging warriors backed by arks and barges. The russ and the bazzy were great however I felt like I could have done with even more large blast goodness. The backfield campers were hardly touched although the chimeras and occupants died a horrible death again. I think my transports are destined to be mauled every game. I'm wondering if fielding just foot infantry and russes would work as a concept? Either that or go full mech. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3586244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I felt like I could have done with even more large blast goodness. Good... good. Let the dakka flow through you... I'm glad to hear you spanked those robots. Tomb Kings in space? What a stupid idea, next you'll be telling us they let fish monkeys have guns. Your Chimeras will do a lot better when you can add to their number at higher points - a few Chimers can be dealt with but when you've plenty of them it's a different story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3586264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I'm coming in a little late on this discussion so don't have much to add -- good advice has already been given. On the heavy flamer question, I personally love them, and prefer them to heavy bolters. I started bringing them on EVERYTHING primarily for fluff reasons but they have proved tabletop effective as well. They are like my secret weapon, especially on my basilisk which is least expected. I have fond memories of one game where I was playing Eldar and they blew the earthshaker cannon off my Basilisk. Thinking it was useless, they disembarked a tightly-packed unit of Dire Avengers near it. So on my turn I rolled up and flamed them, wiping out almost the whole squad. The look on my opponent's face was priceless "Basilisks have heavy flamers???" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3586529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arufel87 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Thanks, I had already considered heavy flamers the better option however I thought some advice was warranted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3587119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's never a bad idea to get some advice and pointers on something if you're not 100%, and we're all too happy to talk Guard. Everyone wins! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3587134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I had a game this morning and got owned by Tau haha... Sad because it's an army I understand. I used the list above but couldn't break out of my deployment zone. The chimeras were both stuffed by a unit of HYMP broadsides in opening turns and I ended up being target practice for riptide and hammerhead large blast spam. The squad at the back held an objective admirably though and the basilisk did nail a unit of fire warriors. I ended up wishing I had another russ though as even longstrike struggled to break that thing open! Hard as nails! I'm starting to think either going big with chimeras or not bringing any at all is the way to go. I've got another battle tomorrow against necrons so will report back then. Against a camping opponent, instead of trying to slog it out with them by using Ordnance (which is like 50-50 success / fail), I've resorted to using AlRaheem and Harker to Outflank like a billion Meltas and Flamers. Ok, maybe not a billion but you get the idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3587139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Indeed, thinking outside the box (or table in this case) and turning an opponent's schemes against him is often the best course to victory. It also has the added benefit of keeping your games lively as they then become a complicated game of plans within plans, counter plans, predictions and more and it's a lot of fun. It's one of the reasons why I like to have a good selection of models, keeps my opponents on their toes Arufel will get to that stage in time, as we all know once you enlist in the Guard you never leave! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286230-1000-points-starter-guard-army/#findComment-3587205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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