Terminator load-outs - what's best nowadays?

[Gillyfish]

After a considerable playing hiatus (still yet to play a second game of 6th) I am looking to get a few games in and, more to the point, actually build some of my kits. My wife recently gave me an ultimatum of no new plastic kits until I'd built some of the ones I had.

 

So, I have started something of a terminator building spree. I have assembled 5 DW Knights and one terminator with Cyclone and Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield., but I have paused a bit as I am undecided as to how to build my remaining squads. I already have the following built and painted:

 

• DW Command squad with Assault Cannon, Apothecary, Standard bearer (SB and PF), Sergeant (Claws) and one marine with SB and PF
• DW Squad with Assault Cannon, claws (1), sergeant with SB and PS.
• DW squad from the DV box set.

 

I currently have teh following box sets to build (one tactical termie boxset, one assault termie boxset, one DW command squad set, another DV termie squad and four termies to be constructed out of the remains of an assault and tactical termie boxset. I have three spare termies with SB and PF that I've picked up over the years which could be converted, if necessary.

 

So what should I construct to round out my force? Thunder Hammers and storm shields seem to be important in this edition, so I'm guessing I will need at least one per new and existing squad. I also need some more traditional sergeants given our current FAQ. I have enough assault cannon, so perhaps a second cyclone would be in order, a plasma cannon maybe some heavy flamers (although I also have some very old plastic SH termies that could be used for that in a pinch, if I base them accordingly!).

 

My current plan is to build the following:

 

3 more DW Knights (for a squad of eight)

1 DW champion

Two traditional sergeants.

1 PC termie

2nd cyclone termie (SB and PF?)

Four of five termies with TH and SS

 

That should allow me to create squads with at least one TH and SS in and give me a choice of heavy weapons, depending upon what's needed. The additional sergeants should give me a few more options as to the number of squads to field.

 

I'd welcome some thoughts though - what is the typical termie squad composition nowadays?

 

[Master Sheol]

I NEVER give to cyclone terminators TH/SS...

Tu not Waste the vengeful strike i dont give to all terminators TH/SS... I make squads of 6/7 terminators with just 2/3 Close Combat options... The terminators with THSS will be the ones who will try to Save AP1/2 shots so its not the best to put the CML on top on one of the terminators who Will die first... Instead i give to CML terminator 2LC to give him alittle boost in HtH...

 

My2cents

[Master Avoghai]

I NEVER give to cyclone terminators TH/SS...

The terminators with THSS will be the ones who will try to Save AP1/2 shots so its not the best to put the CML on top on one of the terminators who Will die first... Instead i give to CML terminator 2LC to give him alittle boost in HtH.

I see it differently : I used to think like you in v5 as I had to allocate the W like I wanted.

 

In v6 you do not choose. Your opponent does... Well in a way, since he chooses the order of saves resolution. So if you have your CML behind he will choose to resolve the bolter shoot first to saturate your SS and then wants you to resolve the plasma w to make it more likely for your CML to die.

 

So now I think that way : since I cannot choose to allocate, I prefer to protect my CML for the case he meets an AP2 weapon

[Bartali]

It really depends on what kind of enviroment you're playing in.

 

5(4)x TH/SS+CML is still the best in competitive play. Riptides, Wraithknights and other MCs eat 5++ Terminators. Storm Bolters don't really do much, and mixing up CC and shooting in one squad leaves it unfoccused and not good at anything.

 

If you're not playing vs Tau, Eldar, Daemons or other competitive players, then pick whatever you fancy.

[Gillyfish]

Thanks guys.

 

Bartali - I don't know my environment yet - there are some clubs nearby that I intend to join, so I guess I will find out in due course what the meta is. I'm trying to cover the bases I need to be filling in gaps in my ranks of termies. It does sound like TH/SS is an important factor in most squads, even if it's only one model in each to act as something of an ablative wound.

 

So if I aim for squads constructed broadly as follows, would this be sensible?

 

Sergeant with SB and PS

1 terminator with TH/SS

1 terminator with Heavy weapon

2 terminators with SB and PF

[Raztalin]

Certainly an amount of personal preference here.  And play testing in your meta will give you the right answer soon enough

 

I like to keep my shooty Squads shooty and my CC squads for just that.

 

I think if you do run a CML then putting a TH/SS on him will ensure that even Precision Shots hit the 3++.  1 maybe 2 TH/SS in most squads will keep you safe from a lot of the nasty stuff out there too.  But then you're compromising on the effectiveness of your Shooty squads :)  Also bear in mind the Split Fire rule - if you have a SB on the CML dude then you can still get a full 5 x SB's firing at one target and the CML then fires at another (i believe this is legit, or would the CML dude have to forgo firing the SB as he fires the CML?)

[Master Sheol]

I think that the CML terminator must shoot all His weapons at the same target...

[Isiah]

He can fire both weapons if armed with a storm bolter too . Yes he must shoot both his weapons at the same target. Split Fire:

"When a unit with at least one model with this special rule shoots, one model in the unit may shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit."

Tending to run with assault cannons again in 6th Edition. I like the number of shots that they can put out - useful on overwatch for instance. So two squads with acs, one with a cyclone. Pretty much the same 2:1 ratio I was using back in 4th Edition. Two th/ss per squad, the heavy weapon guy, the sergeant, and a chainfist storm bolter guy (assuming a 5-man squad).

I don't have th/ss on the uprated weapons' guys - mainly because they were modelled years ago and I don't want to change them!! Not the best reason I know.

Cheers

I

[Brother Bahram]

LC's - a good option instead of TH/SS?

[Pbenner]

To be honest, this is going to depend on two things;

 

1) Playstyle

2) Local Meta

 

Personally, there are very few reasons for me to bring a maximized amount of TH//SS in my lists, so I run between 2-3 in each squad, with 1-2 LCs and the Sarge.

 

I love to abuse the TL after Deep Strike and using Belial as an Anchor.  I try to deploy him aggressively out of LOS and take my T1 drop to blow the crap out of his biggest threats.  I understand that there is nothing other than CC that can really help me against AV14, but for things like Eldar, Tau, and D. Eldar, I can really wreck face with that first missile barrage.  

 

I don't find use for Assault Canons, as I want the reach out and touch someone, and there isn't enough 2+ spam around here to make Plasma Canons effective.  

 

Hope that helps (a little)

 

Paul

[Tanhausen]

I've kept my 5th config and still performs decently.

 

Sarge SB/PS

Thunderhammer

Thunderhammer

Claws

Assault cannon / PF

 

Is very short on the shooty side (but thats what Typhoons and devastators are, right?) and can basically handle most units short of a big 2+ save enemy.

[Gillyfish]

Interesting responses, thank you. Pbenner, Tahausen, are your builds a reaction to the local meta or the list styles you like to run? Tanhausen, do you run a mixed wing list? I'm curious to see whether a different unit composition is needed for a pure list as opposed to a mixed wing list.

[Seleucus]

Magnets!

 

Most of my termies are magnetised so that I can swap weapons as required.

[Mc_luhvin]

I don't know about you guys, but whenever I take 1 TH/SS guy in a squad, purely to take ap 2 shots, he ends up dying to cultist fire, every. Single. Time. So my TH/SS either go in pairs or not at all

[Interrogator Stobz]

I run two shooty squads: both with Sgt, 3xSB+PF/CF, 1xAC/PF, these DWA in turn two.

And two CC squads: both with Sgt, 3xTH/SS, 1xHF/CF, both ride in LRCs and charge up the guts to engage turn two.

Thank you again for tweaking my 5th army March There is a little wiggle room for other units at 1850 so it's not always exactly the same each time.

2c worth

[CovertToaster]

I'm planning on running 2 TH/SS per 5 man squad. This is because my "local" meta stays pretty true to the internet cheese of the day and because I'm planning to deepstrike them EVERY game. So if I go anywhere near a local tournament, even a low level one, I can expect accurate, AP2 templates to be dropped on my terminators before they get to charge therefore TH/SS in the middle of the group is the main concern.

[Pbenner]

In 5th edition, you could get away with a long TH/SS to do AP2, as the controlling player chose allocation, in 6th things are drastically different.  

 

Gilly,

 

My meta is heavily dominated by CSM and C:SM mainly, so I don't have a ton of need for the Hammers other than the fact that that's where I get my 3++ and my ability to deal with a Land Raider in CC (I would rather glance it to death than blow it up, so I don't run Chainfists outside of my Command Squad w/Banner of Fortitude).  AP3 deals with most things, and if I'm looking at a fully loaded TH/SS squad opposite me, I'm going to stay away from it until I have it thinned out enough to crush, but that rarely happens around here.  

 

For the people I go up against that play things outside those, I have Orks, Eldar, D. Eldar, Tau, and Chaos Demons, which my list handles as well as can be expected.  Some of the matches I will only win/draw by taking First Blood, which means that ability to reach out and touch a tank/MC is critical.  None of the above are really a concern with a need for massed AP2 weapons.  The CMLs give the diversity of being Anti-Tank and Anti-Horde in one package.  

 

We'll see what happens locally, but I don't see the Meta shifting...

 

Paul

[captain sox]

I have 5 different units and Command Squad and Knights, all 5 man (more squads likely due to addiction).

 

Squad 1: Plasma Cannon, TH/SS, PF/SB/Sarge/Lightning Claw 

 

Squad 2: Cyclone Launcher, Sarge, 3x SB/FP

 

Squad 3: 3 x TH/SS, Sarge, Lightning Claw

 

Squad 4: Assault Cannon, TH/SS, SB/CF, Sarge, SB/PF

 

Squad 5: 2 x Lightning Claw, 2 x TH/SS, Sarge

 

Command: 2 x TH/SS, Champ, Assault Cannon, Apothecary (have models for Banner and Plasma too)

 

I like to think each unit has a specific purpose. Cyclone in long range, so they sit back and shoot missiles. No close combat gear needed. The Plasma Cannon is medium range, and would likely see combat at some point. the Assault Cannon Squad are the "I gotta kill this unit now (possible tank hunters in right situation)" squad and the 2 "Assault Squads" get up close and wreck face. Initiative 1 sucks, which I why I roll with Lightning Claws. They are still AP3, and go on initiative which is nice.

 

Support for your Terminators is important. Kill what will kill them first (AP2, mass fire / assault squads) and you'll be OK

 

hope this helps 

 

PS: After being in a mini tournament last weeked, I've decided that Whirlwinds are a MUST in all armies. 

[Tanhausen]

My lists are usually mixed wings...and in 6th it mostly means 1 or 2 terminator squads.

 

I'm trying a pure DW 1850 list in a couple weeks (28 terminators and 2 dread) and I'm keeping that config for the scoring units...though the knights and the command squad obviously will be more CC focused.

 

My default loadout is more CC than shooty, because those 1-2 squads are the SLEDGEHAMMER that HAS to dish out punishment regardless of the opponent they face.

 

My meta...is nightmare hehe Its constantly changing, now the dominating is Eldar, 4 months ago is was Tau and some Tzeench sorcerer + horrors...before it was Dragons with FMC...before it was Necrons with 3x6 Specters and 3+ Scythes with 3 Doom platforms and a bizillion inmorteslas.

 

The build that seems to come up now is Tigurius+Centurions+Khan+white scars with grav...

 

But by the time a significant portion of players have the models assembled and painted (a requirement at big GTs), we expect anew codex to land and everybody will run to the new list.

 

Really looking forward to the IG codex...its fun to squish "dem hummiez" with terminators ;)

[Gillyfish]

Thank you all. It sounds like there isn't as much of a hard and fast rule as I thought, so perhaps I just need to cover all bases and then constitute squads based on some games. More terminators can always be acquired, plus I have a Space Hulk box with terminators waiting to be converted into Deathwing! ;)

 

This has been very helpful, thank you.

[Isiah]

As you say load out is horses for courses. What is interesting at present is how many models one puts in each squad. Very rarely do I see people running squads larger than 5-man units - unless it's the deepstriking deathstar with Belial squad - then it's 10.

 

But 6th Codex allows more flexibilty. Something we all craved during the Jervis 4th yes?

 

For general DW the most efficient in terms of squeezing in the most heavy weapons - are 5-man squads. But an extra wound or two keeps the squad viable for longer - especially as a lone squad with Greenwing. Helps in that awkward dilema of storm bolter or storm shield. The point may be moot where there are more DW squads used as Troops and points enevitiably become tighter.

 

For deepstriking shock troops - 10-man squads are popular (with two heavy weapons) for sheer brutality but they can be more difficult to deploy, make very tempting blast and template targets, and are difficult to hide. Their inability to combat squad is very annoying. A 7-man unit is a happy compromise on points and feels better but is inefficient for heavy weapons - if that indeed matters. Coupled with an IC they have they still enough weight to hold their own.

 

DWKs work well as 6, 7- or even 8-man units, allowing for one or two casualties you will suffer prior to cc without degrading close combat ability and bonuses too greatly once they get there. Which is why they are taken anyway isn't it? Any bigger they feel clumsy and get expenive quickly. Run as a minimum they dwindle quickly as they are a high priority target.

 

DW Command squads - well not much option there <_<.

[march10k]

Good thoughts, Isiah.  I find that thundernator squads and knight squads especially suffer when run with the bare minimum of five men.  With the knights, it's because the flail gets no smite, meaning that it's useless when smiting, for example, a wraithknight.  The difference between four and five charging-smiting knights is dramatic.  I'd love to run knights in squads of 6-7, just to get more swings in that crucial round of smiting.  Thundernators are hurt by the sergeant's compulsory loadout.  I think four storm shields in a squad that's intended to do the heavy melee lifting is enough.  That means either TH/SS/CML, or more than five models.  In my own list, I'm cutting my favorite terminator, armed with heavy flamer and chainfist, to make room for a fourth thundernator because, as with the knights, I have no points for that much-desired sixth model.

 

In general, I find that the rules changes have made deepstriking tactical terminators better offensively, since they get vengeance strike and split fire, but the nerfing of power weapons doesn't really benefit them, they still get torrented off the field in short order.  My own tactic of "shaping" sightlines with the hulls of my crusaders to limit enemy fire isn't always effective, I often find myself choosing between exposing the tactical termies to enemy fire and foregoing a charge from inside the crusader.

 

GW has done much to coax us away from pure thundernator spam, but I fear that storm shields, even at 5 ppm, are still critical in a metagame that favors high volumes of basic infantry shooting.

[[TA]Typher]

I pretty much agree with Isiah.

 

I'd add that I prefer CMLs when I can afford them. With the low amount of fire pumped out by the DW I find that the CML has a much great chance to kill things that need to die. IE Crisis suits, tanks ETC.. sure a ass cannon can rend but chance isn't great and the CML is just more reliable.

 

With split fire I find a TH/SS benefits the CML, as a SB won't hurt most things the CML will be shooting at.  DSing crisis suits or drop pods and precision shots can make life hard for DW heavy weapons. A TH/SS can up his survivability and keep him pumping out missiles.

 

If, like Isiah states, you DS with Belial, or place him in a LR with a unit like march does, then a HF can perform nicely. Split firing the 2nd heavy weapon can lead to devastating alpha strikes.

 

Your local meta can dictate that LC will perform well, but I find that in all comer lists PF or TH are better.

 

 

P.S. March, I bought a 2nd LRC finally and tried your list (or close to your list). I've only had two games 1 draw and 1 win, but neither player was all that experienced. Still trying to grind out the kinks. I like the mobile fortress aspect.. the solid wall that slowly advances, but I really miss the in-your-face DWA.

[Interrogator Stobz]

"slowly advances"?  dude, you should be unloading the LRC contents to splitfire the Sgt and HF or heavy weapon of your choice at no later than turn TWO, that way your beloved DWA elements arrive at the same time to add as much 24" firepower to the mix to cull enemy support fire.   Best of both worlds for Alpha skrike tactics lovers, followed by the shooters charging the enemy survivors turn three for area domination.  Then of course it's hang on and play the mission as smart as you can until the end dice is rolled.

Boom :D

[[TA]Typher]

Slow compared to a DWA :p