Forgefiend

[JasoX]

What are the best optimal loadout for Forgefiend?

 

I usually play against Nids & Necrons.

 

Any reason not to bring Forgefiend along? Should i build Maulerfiend instead?

 

All input welcomed.

[Mahoo]

I've never used the Forgefiend myself, although I'd imagine against horde armies it's a pretty decent firebase.

I like using the Maulerfiend though. Ideal for tearing through armour of any kind or harassing any big stuff (if your oponent plays a monster heavy Nids list)

Main thing you need to watch out for with the Mauler is him getting immobilized, unless you've got a warpsmith handy, that's him screwed for the rest of the game, he's a big threat and is usually treated as such (the ability to potentially hit with 5 S10 AP1 hits is enough to give anyone the fear). Good use of cover and it's high maneuverability usually gets him where he needs to be though.

[Clone]

While I haven't yet faced nids, I can say that a maulerfiend is brilliant at taking down necron vehicles. 

[the jeske]

anything with av 12 , specialy when it is not a flyer , will have big problems to actualy reach a necron line . But then again mauler using lists run multiples of them and FMC . As nids go , they have lots of mid strenght shoting which can hurt av 12 , and melee against MC is not most optimal thing to do . Yes a mauler may get up to 5 A , if all his ws3 A hit and he charges , but if he fails to kill the MC , the return more offten then not will scrap him .

[Spacefrisian]

The standard Hades Autocannon seems a decent gun to take out light vehicles, and with 8 shots you might as well have a go against flyers with it. Iam planning to test this out myself btw.

[Dar'kir]

I like the the Forge Fiend, I run mine with two Hades AC and a Ectoplasma Cannon...

[Forté]

Glad someone asked this. Been weighing up which to do mine as.

 

Tempted to go Mauler and use it as a bullet magnet to help my daemonettes get into CQC. Or figure a way to add the Hades to a Mauler when I want to use a Forge.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I just played a game this past weekend against a  Nid MC army (7 in total at 1850), and I too wanted to try out a Forgefiend. I choose to run it with twin Hades Autocannons, and while it was nice to have 8 strength 8 shots, they seemed to do very little against the big bugs. They still were allowed their armor saves as the Hades is only ap4, and with BS3 they only hit half the time. This doesn't mean they are useless, but I think the better targets for them is the medium/light vehicles and infantry with 4+ or worse saves.

 

If I would have taken the Ectoplasma cannons it would have been more effective against the big bugs, but also would have less potential to put wounds on them. 

[Kilofix]

I like the standard Forgefiend with Autocannons. They work against blob armies, things with lots of wounds, and can even be used anti-air in a pinch. Remember that you can still take the Ecto head upgrade while keeping the Autocannon arms (see GW Chaos FAQ for confirmation). Help keep it alive with a Warpsmith behind it.

 

Consider this though, if you need more shots from a more armored vehicle, but don't need high Str weapons; a Chaos Predator with AC, Heavy Bolters (+possibly even Havoc Launcher), and with AV13 may be a better option.

 

The Maulerfiend is more of a specialist thing. I like using it when I know that my opponent has a large heavy (especially another walker that you can lock in CC) or Fortification that absolutely must be taken out. It moves very fast, and through cover. It works better in urban maps as you do need something to block LOS to help it engage though. But, when it does, oh boy. A few games back, I blew up a Bastion and then a Bunker full of troops with it. It really is built to take out buildings with its bonuses to such and since buildings help block LOS to it. I always go with Cutters as I don't use the Mauler for anti-infantry. I would especially not use the Mauler to engage Nid or Necron infantry.

 

All that said, against big Nid bugs, I would actually use Noise Marines. If stationary, a squad of 10 puts out 24+ shots. Enough to get past a big bug's saves. Furthermore they Ignore Cover which helps against the Venomtrope's Shrouded effect.

[totgeboren]

I have used both a Hades Forgefiend and a Maulerfiend with tentacles during my last few games. I would say the tentacles are maybe worth it against Nids, but other than them, they are definitely not something that makes your Maulerfiend better. Actually, it makes it worse, even though it costs points to upgrade. So I would say avoid the tentacles unless you really really like the look of them.

 

Against shooty armies, the Maulerfiend is most often destroyed in turn one, turn two if you go second. It is good as a distraction though, since it looks scary and will draw a bunch of firepower.

 

My forgefiend on the other hand has always had a big impact on the battle, and having just the Hades autocannons allows it to put pressure on your opponent from the first turn, whilst at the same time hopefully using terrain to avoid some enemy firepower. Mine tends to survive most of the battle, and I would say he is much 'better' point for point than the Maulerfiend.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I have used both a Hades Forgefiend and a Maulerfiend with tentacles during my last few games. I would say the tentacles are maybe worth it against Nids, but other than them, they are definitely not something that makes your Maulerfiend better. Actually, it makes it worse, even though it costs points to upgrade. So I would say avoid the tentacles unless you really really like the look of them.

I can't say I agree with this. The Lasher Tendrils reducing the attacks of all models that are in base contact by 2 (remember that its per tendril and you are replacing 2 magma cutters with 2 tendrils) can be a huge benefit if your targets are selected correctly. If you are taking on a lot of MC's that are strength 6, the tendrils are a huge benefit, as it will reduce the number of Smash attacks to 1 or 2 most of the time. While that means there is still a chance for the MC to take out the Fiend, its better than letting them have 2-3 smash attacks.

 

I'm of the opinion that if you are using the mauler to tank hunt and bunker hunt, then the magma cutters are the way to go. If your going MC hunting or trying to hunt elite units (such as terminators) then the tendrils are much better suited. I personally had a LasherFiend tie up Beliel and a unit of TH/SS terminators for 4 turns, and at the end the fiend still left standing.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I'm only building a Maulerfiend just now, but I've got two Forgefiends that I've used for a while. I normally run them in pairs with just the autocannons and rely on weight of fire to take down whatever I'm shooting at. I can't make up my mind whether I prefer switching to the ectoplasma for the main weapons, or adding an extra plasma to the autocannons for when I know I will need extra anti-2+. Both have worked well for me, but I like the guaranteed range of the autocannons shooting on turn 1.

 

I normally do pairs of things, but a single Forgefiend can work if there are other ranged threats in your army. Since they tend to draw fire due to their size they can also be good for distraction for when you have other units with more points sunk into them.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

Running only one was my biggest mistake, as it let my opponent deal with it in one go. I will have to build up my other and see if it performs better in a pair.

 

Do you run a Warpsmith with your Fiends?

[minigun762]

Hades Fiends are fairly solid AA platforms as well.

Then there is the appeal of giving them a reroll to hit through daemon allies.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

It sad that a Herald of Tzeentch get divination, but our poor sorcerers are stuck without. I too have toyed with the idea of adding one just for the divination buffs, but right now I have to many other models to build/paint... Must.Remain.Focused...

[Smurfalypse]

I started off running two Forgefiends in this edition and found them to be severely lacking. Most of the time they would not kill much and mostly get ignored until late game.

 

I started doing two Maulerfiends and using a more aggressive army with them and all of the sudden things clicked as CSM as my primary army. I cannot stress how good they are with the Lasher Tendrils, they just abuse MCs and stuff.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

I started doing two Maulerfiends and using a more aggressive army with them and all of the sudden things clicked as CSM as my primary army. I cannot stress how good they are with the Lasher Tendrils, they just abuse MCs and stuff.

 

 

I couldn't agree more! Lasher-Fiends are a huge boon to aggresive CSM lists.

[minionboy]

When I run Maulerfiends, I always run 3 of them with 1-2 lasher tendrils.  If your opponent's MC is afraid of lashers, which they should be, they'll try and kill it from ranged first.  A mauler with magma doesn't last long against most MC's in combat, the lashes are almost necessary.  Maulers with magmas are amazing at killing tanks and fortifications though.

[zyl-]

 I would especially not use the Mauler to engage Nid or Necron infantry.

What? Why?

 

Necron infantry is so hard to move because of that high Ld and reanimation orbs. The most amazing thing is that they can't do a thing vs av12 in mele, so they can just be crushed until they fail a leadership check and then lose the unit. Usually you are tying down more points than you are spending to do this, and for necrons to lose their firepower is rough.

[FENRISÚLFUR]

 

 I would especially not use the Mauler to engage Nid or Necron infantry.

What? Why?

 

Necron infantry is so hard to move because of that high Ld and reanimation orbs. The most amazing thing is that they can't do a thing vs av12 in mele, so they can just be crushed until they fail a leadership check and then lose the unit. Usually you are tying down more points than you are spending to do this, and for necrons to lose their firepower is rough.

 

 

Overwatch...

 

Sure its just snap shots, but they are rapid fire snap shots and they strip hull points like nobodys buisness when they hit.

 

 

As for nid infantry, simple numbers. Once locked in a horde of gaunts you will for sure be there the whole game... They can't do anything to you, but you kill them so slowly that they don't need to do anything.

[Xenith]

 

I can't say I agree with this. The Lasher Tendrils reducing the attacks of all models that are in base contact by 2 (remember that its per tendril and you are replacing 2 magma cutters with 2 tendrils)

Incorrect, I believe. The FAQ said that 2 magma cutters were actually only one weapon, you gain the benefit once, and once only.

[Kythnos]

 

 

I can't say I agree with this. The Lasher Tendrils reducing the attacks of all models that are in base contact by 2 (remember that its per tendril and you are replacing 2 magma cutters with 2 tendrils)

Incorrect, I believe. The FAQ said that 2 magma cutters were actually only one weapon, you gain the benefit once, and once only.

 

Yes, the magma cutters are only one weapon, but you still replace it with a pair of tendrils, of which each reduces the enemy's attacks characteristic by one point. That's actually quite well explained in the codex itself.

[Forté]

 

 

 

 

I can't say I agree with this. The Lasher Tendrils reducing the attacks of all models that are in base contact by 2 (remember that its per tendril and you are replacing 2 magma cutters with 2 tendrils)

Incorrect, I believe. The FAQ said that 2 magma cutters were actually only one weapon, you gain the benefit once, and once only.

Yes, the magma cutters are only one weapon, but you still replace it with a pair of tendrils, of which each reduces the enemy's attacks characteristic by one point. That's actually quite well explained in the codex itself.

 

To a minimum of 1. And the affect friend and foe.

[Kilofix]

 

 

 

 

 

I can't say I agree with this. The Lasher Tendrils reducing the attacks of all models that are in base contact by 2 (remember that its per tendril and you are replacing 2 magma cutters with 2 tendrils)

Incorrect, I believe. The FAQ said that 2 magma cutters were actually only one weapon, you gain the benefit once, and once only.

Yes, the magma cutters are only one weapon, but you still replace it with a pair of tendrils, of which each reduces the enemy's attacks characteristic by one point. That's actually quite well explained in the codex itself.

 

To a minimum of 1. And the affect friend and foe.

 

This is part of the problem for me.

 

If there's only 1 Mauler w/Lasher, and I'm going up against a squad with models that have only 1 attack - it makes no difference. If I'm going up against a real close combat MC with a lot of attacks, then -2 attacks is still going make some difference but it'll probably kill me eventually anyway. In that case, I'd rather the extra attacks from the Cutter to take his wounds down too.

 

Unless I run more than one Mauler and their Lasher effect stacks against the opposing MC to reduce the latter's attacks down to the bare minimum of 1. But positioning is tricky and sometimes I end up Lashing my own models.

 

Certainly useful but situational. I still prefer Cutters though since my Mauler is meant for vehicles and buildings and I want to take them down fast.

[JasoX]

So, Hades autocannons seems to be better option than ectoplasma?