Forgefiend

[Fibonacci]

I like the Hades better mostly for range and because blast wepaons at BS3 is not reliable at all.  My friend that plays chaos swears plasma is the way to go because too many things just shrug off autocannon hits with armor saves.  Play a few games with both loadouts and see which you like.

[Forté]

So consensus is the Hadesfiend over the Maulerfiend.

[Sception]

what?  No.  People tend to like hades over plasma, but even plasma has defenders.  Mauler, though, seems to have more fans than either from what I've seen, so long as you take a pair, and are running them in support of multiple bike or spawn squads.

[minionboy]

So consensus is the Hadesfiend over the Maulerfiend.

 

Yeah, I think you're way off here.

 

If you're taking a single model, one or the other, then sure, a Forgefiend of either variety is going to be better.  A single maulerfiend does not last.

 

If you're willing to take more than one, then 2-3 maulerfiends is going to do a lot more for your army than a forgefiend.

[Forté]

So one fiend = go forge.

2+ = Mauler potential.

 

May have to see about magnets maybe.

[Spacefrisian]

Might go sit in Hadesfiend camp as well, used that thing yesterday and it likes making target practice of Predators, although the easiest kill it got was one of them Baal predators who thought it could shoot it from the side, Hadesfiend did Hades smash.

[Smurfalypse]

I have said it a few times, but honestly it isnt even a contest. If you have a CC based army, then you need to add in a pair of Maulerfiends. These things are super cheap for what they do and if you give them Lasher Tendrils they can go toe to toe with Daemon Princes, Greater Daemons, Tyranid MCs, Wraithknights, Riptides est est. It basically makes them have one attack if they decide to smash, this allows you to engage them with little fear of getting killed in a single round. They have become the bane of my local guys who play Flying Circus, they continually bitch about the Maulers and how "over powered" they are :P

 

I have used the Forgefiends a ton, especially when the codex first came out and they really are just very poorly setup for their price tag. 200pts for Dakka arms + blast mouth and you get a walker with a 5+ invuln, just way too much when you think about it in terms of the cost compared to a Riptide (same price with interceptor, invuln, moves faster, better guns, longer range, harder to kill. . . List goes on). Not just the Riptide, compare it to a Wraithknight, Wave Serpent, any of the Heavy Support Grav Tanks of the Eldar, Ravager. . . All similar points or lower and vastly outclass it.

 

I still use them in fun games but that is where they are left, even there they tend to be a huge deterrant to me being able to not get completely destroyed :P

[Spacefrisian]

Nah dont need a Maulerfiend for my cc army, my lord can do it just as nicely (unless Corbulo, Mephiston, 8 marines and a Predator dont count), my Maulerfiend on the otherhand got wrecked by rending flamers during overwatch.

[Sception]

I wouldn't go so far as to say you need a pair of maulers for a close combat army, particularly if you're willing to sink some points into allied daemons, but it's not a bad choice.

 

Anyway, if you're going for a fast, assaulty army and you want fiends, take a pair of maulers, and if you're taking a more typical mixed type short range shooty army, consider a forgefiend, making the choice between hades and ecto based on whether you're more in need of anti-light vehicles & fliers or anti-terminators & other heavy infantry.

 

As a practical matter, my personal favorite fiend is the hades-fiend, if only because it's a bit harder to come up with a direct analog that does it better.  One might argue that certain allied daemon choices will provide fast, hard hitting options superior to the hades, while the plasma-fiend can be likened to a vindicator, which sports superior armor, but I'm not sure what chaos would turn to for a better reasonable strength rate of fire stuff than the hadesfiend.  A fire raptor, maybe?

Honestly, the fiends in general are not terribly designed in and of themselves. They may not be the 'most' competitive choices, but they have some interesting play mechanics, some neat, unique weapons & upgrades, are not all that terribly overpriced for what they do, and are reasonably balanced among each other so there isn't really an obvious choice of which fiend configuration to take provided you've already chosen to take fiends in the first place.  The main problems with the fiends were and are that AV12 walkers in general took a pretty hefty blow in 6e, that CSM options in general are just a bit too pricey to reasonably pull off armor spam, and mostly that a pair of new AV12 simply wasn't what the faction needed when we had two such units already.  Fiends, where they're even used at all, have all but replaced dreads and defilers altogether, and as a result the introduction of the fiends didn't really add to our unit selection, it only displaced options we already had.

[minigun762]

So, Hades autocannons seems to be better option than ectoplasma?

Biggest issues with Ectos are the short range and overheats.

Gotta as if a Vindicator wouldn't be better.

 

HadesFiend gets mobile mid range firepower that can bust tanks or instant kill T4.

[totgeboren]

When it comes to 3xecto, I think I would rather take a Vindicator. Better armour, no overheat, leagues better vs armour, and a low profile so cover saves is as easy as putting a few cultists in front of it. And all of this for 60% of the cost of a triple ecto. Damn, now that I think of it, you can almost get two Vindies for the price of one 3xecto. Pretty messed up.

[Forté]

One weapon destroyed hit and goodbye cannon on the Vindi unless you add other weapons too.

 

Saying that though. What would get target priorities. A Hades or Vindicator? Hades has the range but the Vindi has a pie plate of doom. So would it be worth running them together?

[Spacefrisian]

Hades would get target priority, looks more scary.

[the jeske]

vindicators are up there with defilers as worse vehicles in chaos codex . But that doesn't describe the vindicator enough , it is in general one of the worse  tanks any marines  army can have .

 

If hades run as something else then ally/points filler, then only as double with no ectos .

[Kilofix]

I believe we can summarize as:

 

Forgefiend - Hades: Good all round (infantry, light vehicles, anti-air in a pinch, etc.)

 

Maulerfiend - Lasher: If you want to CC MC and other Walkers (edited per Malisteen's comment below)

 

Maulerfiend - Magma: If you want to blow up vehicles / buildings

 

Forgefiend - Ecto:  More expensive pointswise, potentially suicidal and Vindi may be a better option

 

 

In all cases, pairs may be better than single (and / or with Warpsmith).

[Sception]

Really.  I would have figured the vindi would be a better option then ecto, and not entirely terrible all round, if admittedly less good than a predator.

 

Also, lasher is less for regular units, which are likely to be dropping to one attack to try and slap grenades on it anyway, and are more for if you want to risk throwing it up against monstrous creatures or other walkers that tend to out init it, and will reliably destroy it before it swings with their normal number of attacks.

[Fibonacci]

To me, the fiend (either forge or mauler) is one of those units you add to give a little flavor to your army.  They are cool models and can do some damage but in the end are little more than missile magnets that will go away the first time your opponent gives them any real attention. Your choice is close combat, 24" plasma or 36" autocannon.  Pick the one that fits the rest of your list and don't give it much more thought than that.

[Minsc]

I like both the Maulerfiend and the (Hades)fiend, that's why I own 2 Maulers and 1 Forge.

As for what to pick, basically pick what your army needs the most.

If your army contain many fast elements, a Maulerfiend or two is a nice addition.

If your army needs more ranged firepower, the Forgefiend is a nice addition.

As for Plasma vs Hades, I always go with Hades on my Forgefiend.

Plasma is good vs heavy infantry and to some extent vs MC, but I'd rather take a Vindicator and save some points.

Hades is good vs MC's, multi-wound models, light and medium vehicles, and can even try shooting at fliers - 8 shots so you should hit at least one.

Not to mention that it's cheaper and you can't burn yourself.

Especially against 'nids I would advocate the Hades-cannon. You can Instant Death his Warriors/Shrikes, Zoan's, Venom's, Raveners and Lictors, and you easily wound and ignore the saves on Hiveguards, and even their T6 3+ MC's are afraid of 8 S8 Shots.

[minigun762]

I like the natural pairing of Spawn and Maulers.

Spawn can help handle getting stuck in a tarpit and Maulers can provide the low AP high S attacks to kill armor or fortifications.

[Excessus]

Ecto-fiend just looks so freaking awesome! :)

 

...though I'd probably use a hades fiend, triple ecto glances itself to death...

[Spacefrisian]

Yeah glancing yourselves to death is rather silly.

[Warsmith Aznable]

...though I'd probably use a hades fiend, triple ecto glances itself to death...

 

When I first saw that it had "ectoplasma" I got excited and thought that maybe it was some awesome daemonic form of plasma that didn't blow up it's own operator. In retrospect, hope is the first step to disappointment. Granted, if they had  put any more thought into it we probably would have had yet another chart to roll on in our codex.

[Spacefrisian]

At one time vehicles had cooling systems that prevented overheating, than 6th edition came around.

[Xenith]

I like the Hades better mostly for range and because blast wepaons at BS3 is not reliable at all. 

 

I would trust a blast weapon at BS3 to hit more often than a normal weapon at BS3.

 

I like the forgefiend, the model is growing on me, but it just seems so...cocked. 20 shots from a punisher at BS3 still isnt scary, I find it hard to think that 4 S8 hits per turn is worth the points when Autohavocs will do the same for cheaper :/

 

It is probably best for shooting down light vehicles. Against infantry, it doesn't have the amount of shots needed to get a goodly amount of hits, and doesnt ignore power armour.

 

The plasma version, to me, would do more.

 

 

Imagine if the fiends could take interceptor. That would be glorious.

[the jeske]

I find it hard to think that 4 S8 hits per turn is worth the points when Autohavocs will do the same for cheaper

there is a substential difference between str 7 and str 8 . not that havocks are worse or should be less offten used then fiends .

fiends are "bad" because of the must 2xX oblits =>1 fiend =bad=1x havocks>1xfiend.