What are Ultramarines going to get?

[Conn Eremon]

Objection! "Nothing" is a perfectly valid reply to the question what special units or gear the "base line" Legion may be getting. Even if that may be wishful thinking on my part, it is also the most sensible answer according to lore. But then "lore" is probably not going to be the deciding factor for FW.

I would agree that is a valid response, if special units or gear meant that they were not "base line."

 

 

Since it doesn't, I dont agree.

[Kol Saresk]

I still think they'll get the Evocatii, or some equivalent. Something like a supped Veterans squad. I mean, these were the guys who were trusted with an entire world.

 

And the Ultramarines are not the "baseline" Legion. They are the baseline Chapter. As far as Legions go, the I Legion was the first Legion made and all other Legions should have been based off of it since they were literally the first Legion. So the Ultras are not the baseline Legion and thus deserve something to mark that out. Heck, if they can be baseline in 40K and have Tyranid specialists, then they can be awesome in 30K and have Calth Tunnel-fighters, or Evocatii Shield-Bearers. Maybe even Talassaran Assault-Boarders.

[Legatus]

Why would Guilliman then later deny the Chapters a unit formation he had used during the Great Crusade?

[Kol Saresk]

By that line of thinking, why would he get rid of the Legions when he used his so effectively?

[Conn Eremon]

And in anticipation of the obvious response that it was because Legions created the Horus Heresy:

 

Legions didn't start the Heresy. Primarchs did. Divide them into Chapters, and you still have Primarchs that can band them together. Guilliman himself proved that during the Great Scouring, as did other charismatic leaders since then.

 

Legions were, however, instrumental in stopping the Horus Heresy.

[Legatus]

I didn't think we were talking about anticipated 5000+ formations for Horus Heresy apocalypse battles. I thought we were expecting some kind of squad or something.

[Kol Saresk]

And in anticipation of the obvious response that it was because Legions created the Horus Heresy:

 

Legions didn't start the Heresy. Primarchs did. Divide them into Chapters, and you still have Primarchs that can band them together. Guilliman himself proved that during the Great Scouring, as did other charismatic leaders since then.

 

Legions were, however, instrumental in stopping the Horus Heresy.

Yep. But then as part of the Codex Reforms, the Legions not only gave up their size, but a decent portion of their military strength and so had to be reorganized in a more universal manner resulting in the loss of certain specialized formations, such as Destroyers, Gorgon Terminators, Breacher Squads and Pyroclasts. Units like the Assault squads and Heavy Weapon Support Squads took the backseats while the Tactical Squads were given more versatile weaponry and made the common unit.

 

But alas, we keep straying off topic.

[Veteran Sergeant]

Objection! "Nothing" is a perfectly valid reply to the question what special units or gear the "base line" Legion may be getting. Even if that may be wishful thinking on my part, it is also the most sensible answer according to lore. But then "lore" is probably not going to be the deciding factor for FW.

Technically, the Ultramarines being the baseline is how other Chapters are measured. "Are you Ultramarines?" "No?" Well, then we'll deduct points from a perfect score of 100 until we reach where you're at.

The same holds true in 30K and the Ultramarines Legion. The correct answer for what the Ultramarines get isn't "nothing." On the contrary. It's "everything".

[Wade Garrett]

Why would Guilliman then later deny the Chapters a unit formation he had used during the Great Crusade?

Why would the Romans move away from manipular array of velites, hastati, principes, and triarii that they used so effectively to the spatha-pilum-scutum equipped legion of cohorts?

[Legatus]

I dunno. Did those turn out to be no use in zero grav boarding actions?

 

The point is that Guilliman would presumabily not include a unit formation in the Codex Astartes if he thought that the unit was not useful and it's job was done better by a different unit. But if that was the case, then he would not have used said unit during the Great Crusade either. Or why would a unit that works well suddenly cease to work well?

[Wade Garrett]

Because the discovery of STC fragment X meant new unit Y could do its job better.

 

Because while formation A may have been really good at doing this, formation B can do this pretty good, and also do that, so from a logistical standpoint formation B is better.

 

Because the challenges the Legions had to face during the Great Crusade were different than those the Chapters had to overcome in the aftermath of the Heresy and Scouring.

 

Etc. Etc. Etc.