RenderDead Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I have been recently looking at the Raptor and found out it is legal in 40k and its got special rules for BA as well. The price is around the same as the Stormraven (point wise that is!). The big thing is the Raven is a great transport vehicle, but the Raptor comes with some very good firepower and toughness at 4 HP. I am wanting some serious input since I want to make this purchase for the looks and its game effectiveness! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I purchased the raven a while back being all giddy about the transport capacity and to be honest...I haven't really "dominated" with it. It's a good flyer but it often feels like a paper plane in some games and I almost feel like the only way to use it well is to hold it back instead of letting it charge forth as the wondrous assault vehicle it is supposed to be. Can't speak on the raptor though, haven't seen it or seen what it can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenderDead Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Ok I have just about the same experience as you for my Raven, the firepower on it is lack luster IMO honestly. Also if I want to bring something in that isn't equipped with a JP its hard to see that bird alive after it drops off its cargo. I don't mind my strategy with drop pods and fast tanks, it works. I rather have a shooty bird in the sky than something carrying even more points in it that might not see the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Thought the BA storm raven had a lot of shooty if you equip it right ? In addition, are you running them in singles - therefore being your opponents single flying target for all their anti air to take out ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenderDead Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 It can be shooty to be effective against infantry, or just focus armor. I only run 1 Raven since its 200+ points and I use it mainly to transport. Most games are between 1500 to 1850. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durundal Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I wouldn't really consider a storm Raven as a good transport vehicle. it can be glanced out of the air and everything inside insta dies just makes it not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The Storm Raven is an excellent transport vehicle for 5 guys to sit inside and score something lategame. Your opponent needs an overwhelming airforce to bring it down reliably. I have also run the Fire Raptor in some games now, and it is freakin awesome, but it has a totally different role. Where the Stormraven excels in taking out armour and light infantry, the Fire Raptor totally obliterates anything with 3+ saves or less. Also, the Fire Raptor is able to force pinning tests on up to 4 different units, which is amazing. It really depends on what you need - a babysitter for a scoring unit able to take out tanks and monstrous creatures, or two flying baal predators rolled into a single model :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The Storm Raven is an excellent transport vehicle for 5 guys to sit inside and score something lategame. Your opponent needs an overwhelming airforce to bring it down reliably. I have also run the Fire Raptor in some games now, and it is freakin awesome, but it has a totally different role. Where the Stormraven excels in taking out armour and light infantry, the Fire Raptor totally obliterates anything with 3+ saves or less. Also, the Fire Raptor is able to force pinning tests on up to 4 different units, which is amazing. It really depends on what you need - a babysitter for a scoring unit able to take out tanks and monstrous creatures, or two flying baal predators rolled into a single model Yeah... 3 Dakkafexes say hi with their 36 twin linked str.6 shots. I'm more scared of volume of str.6 shots over 1 or 2 heavy weapons with skyfire. Now, my raven has performed amazing every now and then, popping 2 tanks a turn, but, that is sadly not every game. Most games they are average for me. I run mine as a gunship. I avoid the transport capabilities because every time I have it loaded, it ends horribly for me. I have thought about buying a raptor, as they fit the role for a gunship much better, and the model looks awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenderDead Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Ok cool thanks for the insight, its really just all about personal play style then. Seeing I would rather take gunship rather than the optional transport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Its a valuable point to note in terms of its potential dangers- but it shouldnt be overstated or something that stops you using it. 3 dakkafexes with 36 shots twinlinked should be 11 hits - meaning you can expect 2 of which to glance. This is also AFTER your second turn, meaning if your Raven and other part of your army hasnt thinned down those tri-fexes you may need to reconsider your target assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 The potential by far outweighs the danger - in today's tournament meta, there is no better way to protect your scoring units than inside a raven. Every other option requires a lot more thought, good terrain and usually some luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Im with you there, too! In my last tourney, I often put my 2x5man squads into my ravens (provided the anti-air wasnt insane). Does depend on what's on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Its a valuable point to note in terms of its potential dangers- but it shouldnt be overstated or something that stops you using it. 3 dakkafexes with 36 shots twinlinked should be 11 hits - meaning you can expect 2 of which to glance. This is also AFTER your second turn, meaning if your Raven and other part of your army hasnt thinned down those tri-fexes you may need to reconsider your target assessment. I won't disagree with you on the statistics, but my last game vs nids I played against a list with 6 dakkafexes, 3 of which targeted my raven, and managed to put 5 glances on it amazingly, 3 of which I made my 5+ jink saves. Target priority can be a number of things in a nids army. Venomthropes giving a 4+ cover save bubble, synapse creatures... Dakkafexes have such a short range, so they aren't an immediate threat until turn 2 or 3, and I had the tools to counter them when they got in close. My DC killed the other 3 in a charge, and the other 3 fell to lucky shooting with scouts. Still a scary moment seeing all those re-rollable dice, you just know you're going to have to pull out some clutch saves. EDIT: You are going to face the same issues regardless of what you take, whether it's a Storm Raven, or a Fire Raptor. It's more so what you feel you need to accomplish on the table with your choice of flyer. The Raven is still a good gunship, and their is still the option to pick up a unit of troops and fly to an objective if the situation calls for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenderDead Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 True being able to do last turn moves to get troops where they need to be is crucial in obj tourney play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogen Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I was curious about the specific BA abilities of the raptor. The revelation weapon battery really needs an update for this edition, it seems. It gives BAs better deep strike options if they have descent of angels... But that necessarily means you've fired the weapon before arriving, and usually you want to reserve your flier as well. So there's a whole string of scenarios that has to take place to make it useful. The best use with the blinding is van vets but they don't have descent of angels so likely better off not taking the BA variant and sticking with the missiles? Am I missing something? Are there order units worth using the battery for? Thanks for helping me understand! -Orogen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine Eternal Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If I read the rules correctly, the missiles effect last until the end of your next turn. So, yeah, you'd have to roll to get your reserves in first, and that unit has to have DoA to benefit from the locator beacon unfortunately.Kind of sucks if you manage to roll for all of your reserves on turn 2, nullifying your choice in missiles, I guess blind is ok, but I think I'd still rather take some anti-tank missiles. Same goes for failing your reserve rolls for the Raptor and coming in on turn 4 while everything else is on the board. It's to unpredictable at the moment for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenderDead Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes the special rule for the BA is too unpredictable as well. I would take the regular missiles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I was curious about the specific BA abilities of the raptor. The revelation weapon battery really needs an update for this edition, it seems. It gives BAs better deep strike options if they have descent of angels... But that necessarily means you've fired the weapon before arriving, and usually you want to reserve your flier as well. So there's a whole string of scenarios that has to take place to make it useful. The best use with the blinding is van vets but they don't have descent of angels so likely better off not taking the BA variant and sticking with the missiles? Am I missing something? Are there order units worth using the battery for? Thanks for helping me understand! -Orogen Vanguard vets do have DoA. When they purchase jump packs, the jump pack entry says that all Blood Angels units that take a JP automatically get DoA. However you begin to look at an expensive unit to take advantage of this one opportunity and it is really a crapshoot :( If we saw an entry that replaced it and allowed all BA models entering via deep strike to assault that turn it would be fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogen Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I was curious about the specific BA abilities of the raptor. The revelation weapon battery really needs an update for this edition, it seems. It gives BAs better deep strike options if they have descent of angels... But that necessarily means you've fired the weapon before arriving, and usually you want to reserve your flier as well. So there's a whole string of scenarios that has to take place to make it useful. The best use with the blinding is van vets but they don't have descent of angels so likely better off not taking the BA variant and sticking with the missiles? Am I missing something? Are there order units worth using the battery for? Thanks for helping me understand! -Orogen Vanguard vets do have DoA. When they purchase jump packs, the jump pack entry says that all Blood Angels units that take a JP automatically get DoA. However you begin to look at an expensive unit to take advantage of this one opportunity and it is really a crapshoot If we saw an entry that replaced it and allowed all BA models entering via deep strike to assault that turn it would be fantastic Ah! Thanks for clarifying - I was scanning the codex quickly and just didn't see the special ability listed. You're right, still not a good use for the raptor but good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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