sister of battle and astartes love - could it happen?

[Roma]

 

 

The Cain books also have techpriests wearing white robes.

Sorry I don't know what you are talking about. I assume you are suggesting the books are not always accurate? Ayways I'll stand by my statement.

 

Edit: the robes are meant to be red, so I assume that would be a fluff innacuracy. Still, big galaxy (galaxies?)

 

Yeah, my point was that the Cain books don't really match up with the rest of the fluff very well.

 

Actually, in the author's notes for Hero of the Imperium, Mitchell basically says outright that it's not really the same 40k universe.

That's interesting to know. Still though, with the, I assume, thousands-millions of sisters of battle out there I am sure there would be cases of romance.  They are only human after all.

 

Space marines, on the other hand, are not. The only way I see this match up happening is between a lost space marine, living separately from the Imperium for decades (perhaps somehow abandoned by accident after a battle, fallen in  a crevasse or whatever?) who meets a SOB separated from her sisters, perhaps during a campaign and the two travelling together for weeks at least. Wow, I should write a story XD

 

EDIT: Fibonnaci ninja'd me :L wanna write a story together lol?

[vonny]

thade, not all marines still believe as such: While I do think it's the general consensus, there are marine chapters of later foundings (who have been born and raised in the imperium as we know it) that venerate the Emperor as a god as well.

The Fire Angels for example, according to IA:9 - the badab war pt 1, "Conservative in their viewpoint, they embrace the Imperial Creed as unassailable truth and see themselves as holy fighters in the God Emperor's service whose foremost duty is to defend the imperium from those who would assail it. They are both active and demonstrative in their faith, a factor which has won them support from within the Ecclessiarchy and allies amongst the Cardinalis Solar."

They tell about a history spanning less than 2000 years and making a fierce reputation already, fighting multiple wars of faith next to the Adepta Sororitas since their inception. It is also noted that other chapters find this close bond with the Ecclessiarchy as 'unseemly' and think it detracts too much from the Marines' historical independance.

 

So yea, I agree with you, but there are notable and noted exceptions to the rule!

 

Also, Fibonacci, I'm not sure if you bring in the 1000 year argument as a figure of speech or literally, as marines seldom live to that age. Logan Grimnar, one of the oldest marines about is only around 600 years, and the Blood Angels are known for their exceptional longlevity, with Dante being the oldest known marine and I believe he's the only known marine that's actually been alive for over a millenium.

 

As for the original topic: I think the anology between Argal Tal and Cyrene is very apt, if in a different perspective. While we're on that writer, I believe ADB actually once said in an interview that he has to tone down the romantic and sensual parts in any story quite a bit before it gets approved by the Black Library editors (something about a scene in the 2nd night lords novel with the navigator and a starship 'let loose'), and I applaud him for actually writing a love story 

between the navigator and a chapter serf/slave

 within that triology.

It ends bad of course.

 

I think it's a shame this handled so restrictively, really, as I thought it really made the whole setting seem much more rounded and complete in that night lords triology than just humansand post-humans and vice versa and any combination thereof killing eachother for various reasons, be it revenge, duty, or honor.

 

I see it very possible that a sister and a marine building a feeling of mutual respect to one another, and have actually based a drawing around it (which is featured in the art of the sisters topic somewhere). As for love...

 

Sisters do lead a life of stringent control. That having been said, the world is full of examples of people who have been life-long indoctrinated into a certain mindset and yet cannot help but want to break free at some point. Marines going renegade and possibly to chaos is an in-universe example of this too. And while I don't see any sister, at any point, wanting to break free and/or going over to chaos, I don't put a feeling of affection, or even actual love, for another (post)human being beyond them. The story as Miko explains the ending of that book with the two sisters holding hands is something I can get behind as well. I really should get those books in my collection, I guess.

 

As for a marine feeling love for a sister - that's a different question. I, personally, have often seen marines as being brought into the fold at the early stages of puberty, getting mind- and bodygrafted, getting indocinatred, getting information pushed into their brains, and then trained and used for one thing: killing. I believe some horus heresy books touch on this subject as well: that marines can become quite old, but are emotionally stunted to a pre- or early puberty understanding of the world and its people. On top of that, their posthumanism makes it harder for them to actually connect with humans, understanding them and their emotions, to the point where they sometimes find it hard to identify what emotions a human is expressing at a particular time. I thought, as I was writing this, that this may conflict somewhat with a few of my favorite marine characters in the stories I've read, but while they're thoughtful, wistful, sometimes perhaps even nostalgic or philosophical, these are mostly qualities of the mind, and not qualities of emotion, or, perhaps more importantly, compassion.

I think to love someone or something you have to be able to feel along with that person, to see and understand their point of view and able to connect with that emotionally. Without that, it's not love, it's a craving, lust, or idolisation. And connecting in such a way, beyond brotherhood with their fellow marines or their duty as a whole, I'm not sure if I see marines as still being able to do that.

Perhaps there's exceptions to this as well, though. The Lamenters for example are reknowned for feeling the pain of humanity and wishing to save them from it. But I think this, again, is on a larger scale of humans as a whole, and not from one Marine to one human.

 

Shortly, I want to touch on to something that wasn't asked by the original poster, but has been brought to the fore later - that of sexual relations between a marine and a sister. Personally, I think the chances of this are very slim to non-existant. The physical differences are really, really large, and as has been noted before, we have no idea what even happens to a Marine's.... 'junk'. I.... I really just don't see this happening.

 

tl;dr:

I think marines and sisters can build a mutual respect much like the bond of brotherhood between marines who've been fighting alongside eachother.

I think a Sister may feel affection for a marine, perhaps even some kind of love.

I think a Marine may feel affection for a Sister, but more paternal/like a big brother protecting/pet owner. Not romantical at least.

 

edit: some formatting and double words in a sentence that I didn't catch on my first read-through

[Warsmith Aznable]

Shortly, I want to touch on to something that wasn't asked by the original poster, but has been brought to the fore later - that of sexual relations between a marine and a sister. Personally, I think the chances of this are very slim to non-existant. The physical differences are really, really large, and as has been noted before, we have no idea what even happens to a Marine's.... 'junk'. I.... I really just don't see this happening.

 

Without getting into a rehash the long running debate on Space Marine genitals, there is nothing explicit in the lore about it, so a fan writer would seem free to choose either take on it.

[Denison512]

This is my rifle, this is my gun! This is for fighting, this is for fun!

 

Sorry i couldnt resist :P on topic i remember in the ragnar books ragnar becomes attached to a female human and decides it to be most unwolfy. Whether that means its unsual for wolves to get attached to females or astartes in general i don't know. In the HH books i the remembrancer mesidrae(?) becomes attached to Loken and him to her but she comments on the fact that she finds his body to be barely human and to be quite wierd. In summary given the evidence in this thread so far i think Miko is right in that an astartes and human could have a romantic relationship if their chapter culture allowed it but a physical relationship is out of the question there are just waaaaay to many barriers for that to work.

[BassWave]

As mentioned before, the political relationship between the majority of chapters and the echlesiarchy is rather tense due to conflicting ideologies. So just trying to get the pair to even get along will be difficult. Granted, some chapters do worship the Emperor, which would make a relationship much easier to develop. On the flip side, if say an iron hand and a sister meet in a room, someone is going to die.

 

If anything, a commissar and sister relationship would be more likely considering the differences are reduced immensely. In fact there would be tons of common ground.

 

Btw, I'm pleasantly surprised this topic has survived from degenerating considering the topic.

[*Furyou Miko]

Unlike Amicus (Thank you, Hellios ¬_¬), the Sisters forum is pretty calm. Mostly because we aren't inundated with fanboys, in the pejorative sense.

 

I could have sworn it was 'perjorative', but Chrome disagrees.

 

A Commissar and a Sister might even have known each other at the Scholam, making them long-lost childhood friends. They reunite after years and their innocent affection has grown with their experiences... eeeeee, it's so romantic!

[jacqualine47]

You know, one could argue that it would be un-sisterly to not acknowledge one's human needs...

 

Think about it - the best way to protect one's self from Chaos is moderation.  Too much of any one thing leads to chaos - just ask the Emperor's Children.  Self-denial or asceticism taken to an extreme can be just as bad as going to extreme indulgence (really, all the chastity talk just goes to show that for whatever reason we tend to put our idea of nuns - like the catholic sort - onto the Sisters even though there is nothing to support that other than the nick-name gamers gave them).  The big E was all about humanity - that's why he forbade Space Marines from being able to reproduce, he never wanted post-humans to supplant humans.  Abhor the mutant - pure strain humans are the ideal.  Trying to be perfect is a path to damnation/chaos - as is pursuing anything to obsession.  I'd imagine that obsession is one of the things that leads sisters to becoming Repentia.

 

The intro of the second James Swallow book (Hammer and Anvil) gives some insight into the Sisters' everyday life - Sister Decima thinks about the others whom died in the Necron attack and notes that one of her friends was known for being good at cards, etc.  The girls do have down-time... they're busy most of the time with their duties/prayers/training, but they still live, joke, and play too.  Also, they are the Daughters of the Emperor... calling them the Brides of the Emperor is a good way to get purged since that title was a black mark on the Sisterhood brought about by Vandire's trickery during the Reign of Blood.  They aren't married to the big E (whereas real-world Catholic nuns are considered to be promised to God alone as I understand it - hence their being chaste) - they are his loyal daughters.  The Imperial Creed is about preserving and unifying Humanity, casting out the alien, and purging the mutant - all in the interests of elevating human-kind.

 

That line of thought leads me to believe that - while dubious in some areas - the Ciaphas Cain novels aren't too far off the mark with sisters enjoying (though not to excess) romantic interludes, gambling, and alcohol.  In 'Cain's Last Stand' there was even a budding relationship implied between a Commissar cadet and a Battle Sister novitiate - which I completely find plausible.  Sisters not seeking or caring about money is likely to be more a result of the fact that all their needs are met by the church than any desire to live in poverty.  A Sister would see no need for money (hence any gambling winnings would go in the collection tray more than likely) since anything they want would be provided so long as it befitted their rank... and those things that don't befit one's rank are acquired by promotion rather than cash... so money is just a physical object with no real value to a Sister.

 

However, all that said, I don't think a Sister would ever be attracted carnally to a Space Marine:  Marines are POST-human... they are a tool created by the big E to protect humanity, but are no longer themselves humans.  To accept the seed (proverbially speaking since Marines are undoubtedly sterile) of a post-human would be against everything a Sister believes - anything other than a pure-strain human is a creature of disgust.  Such creatures have their uses and serve humanity, but are not human - and that distinction should mean everything to a Sister.  A marine is a direct creation of the Emperor and should be venerated as such just as one would venerate anything directly created by the hand of their deity, but to lay with a marine would be akin to laying with a non-human and thereby repugnant and similar to the idea of laying with a Navigator, Psyker, Ratling, or Ogryn.

[*Furyou Miko]

Hm, if Sisters did gamble, they would probably wager bolt shells.

 

However, I don't see gambling as part of their downtime activities. I don't recall that line from Hammer and Anvil, but I don't think that much of Swallow in the first place - he also had a Celestian Superior made into a Line Sister for deserting her post, leading her Sisters in doing the same, destroying a major Administratum facility, and allying herself with a known heretic psyker. Any one of those should have had her cast into the Repentia, if not executed outright.

[thade]

Just to be clear: folks, this topic does ride a bit close to the line, so please keep that in mind; I removed a few over-the-line posts to try and reign it back in to respectful territory. Respectful discourse on these topics at an academic level is very good; references to anatomy or activities framed in jest are inappropriate and will face the wrath of the melta.

 

That said, I am consistently impressed with the level of sophistication of discussion had on this forum. There is often clear evidence of mutual respect both for the topics at hand (which at times are pretty sensitive issues in modern day culture) and for one another. This particular forum is a model forum for the entire board, which is already the best board on the Internet. You all make me proud.

 

*brushes chip off of his shoulder and feels a bit cheeky*

 

Back on topic, this example keeps coming up, so I wanted to comment on it: I don't see two sisters "holding hands" at the culmination of a strong friendship being a clear predictor of romantic involvement. A few people seem to be presenting that as if it's obviously that way, though maybe I misunderstand? It's certainly an interpretation, but I wager if you back up a bit and study the whole of the events between those two characters and approach it as if it's becoming close kinship, it still makes sense that way.

 

Insofar as "human needs" are concerned, I still reflect upon my Buddhist Monk Conjecture presented above; those monks never address those "needs" so I think Sisters could be well inoculated against them as well.

[*Furyou Miko]

I'm with thade on the 'human needs' thing... If it helps, think of Astartes as being like Sheldon Cooper, only for killing instead of science fiction!

[Warsmith Aznable]

Insofar as "human needs" are concerned, I still reflect upon my Buddhist Monk Conjecture presented above; those monks never address those "needs" so I think Sisters could be well inoculated against them as well.

 

I'm not having a go at anybody's religion here, but this example keeps popping up. To be blunt, there is a difference between an ideal and reality. Most people in the West are not really familiar with the history or domestic current events of countries that have significant populations of Buddhists, but I can assure you that scandal and crime among the religious is not something that Buddhist monks are free of. No more than priests and monks of Christianity in the West can claim to be free of scandal. Buddhism addresses sexual misconduct in its most basic vow of refuge, and enlightenment can be a long road. A buddha is special because he embodies that complete, flawless enlightenment and compassion, while the average monk is not escaping samsara in one lifetime in a monastery.

 

In that respect, I think your example is not a good one. It's a bit too credulous of the presented image.

 

My argument is that the more extreme the self denial, and the more brutal the methods used to reinforce it, the more extreme and bizarre those human needs will manifest when the self denial finally fails. Nothing short of altering the physical body (specifically the brain) can remove the impulses and desires, so that those human emotions and desires will always be there. Those urges do not happen in the conscious part of the brain, but in areas that the conscious can only try to keep a lid on, but more often retroactively justifies as having been its own idea in the first place. A person who cultivates self denial has to constantly be on guard against their own body(brain). Someone raised into a lifestyle of self denial may be better at it than someone who is not, and willpower is something that gets stronger with continued exercise, but the pressure will always be lurking.

 

As that relates to Sisters, there are two possibilities that I see.

 

1. Complete and brutal self denial. To deny everything means that small failures would have the same consequences as large failures, and a Sister having a relationship outside of approved channels, physical or even otherwise, would be in danger of falling completely. This is why I think that even something that seems innocent to normal, M3 humans would get a Sister sent to the Repentia squad in M41.

 

2. Moderation through pre-approved activities. With the Sisters of Battle, most of those pre-approved activities are probably prayer, penance, and combat training. Combat itself is probably extremely cathartic. But a convent might also deem "certain activities" to be useful to keeping order, so long as everything was open and aboveboard, and stayed within predetermined limits.

 

Really, I believe that there is room for both of these takes in the 40k universe, if we're still talking about fan fiction. One order could take the extreme route as doctrine, while another order could take the moderation route as doctrine. Among the many smaller orders there is probably a wider variety of rule and interpretation thereof. Even within an order there could be variation of interpretation  or enforcement of the rule. Some missions are quite small, with just a handful of Sisters guarding a mostly forgotten, backwater shrine or chapel, and depending on how long they're there they could push the rule to the extreme edges of acceptability in either direction.

 

Another situation is a breakdown in discipline. Call it shell shock, combat fatigue, post traumatic stress or what-have-you, even the most disciplined and experienced soldier can behave in ways outside of the norm in extended deployments or following an unusually violent encounter. I mentioned the idea before when I talked about sex as being life affirming. It could also be that the ordinary rituals of self denial are temporarily disrupted and/or a breakdown in the chain of command leaves a distressed Sister without guidance, forcing her to find novel ways of maintaining her sense of self control. Whether the writer uses the extreme or moderate order rules would have a big impact on where that takes the story.

[*Furyou Miko]

2. Moderation through pre-approved activities. With the Sisters of Battle, most of those pre-approved activities are probably prayer, penance, and combat training. Combat itself is probably extremely cathartic. But a convent might also deem "certain activities" to be useful to keeping order, so long as everything was open and aboveboard, and stayed within predetermined limits.

I quite like this one, as far as actually writing the Sisters goes. They can be as saintly as you like in the background fluff, but that doesn't make a very exciting story.

[jacqualine47]

I don't recall that line from Hammer and Anvil, but I don't think that much of Swallow in the first place

 

Ok... so, so far IIRC its been decided that Daemonifuge doesn't count, Sandy Mitchell's books don't count, and now James Swallow's books don't count... so that pretty much leaves just the codex and Sabbat Martyr (the one novel with a sister in it I haven't read yet, though it is apparently just a small cameo - I'm still trying to find a copy of the second Gaunt's Ghosts omnibus so that I can rectify that)... there is the Ben Counter novel from the Grey Knights Omnibus, but its just a battle scene so there isn't any info on how the sisters live day to day in it.  I presume that if most of Black Library is to be discounted, then probably the stuff from Fantasy Flight Games is to be discounted as well.  (It supports my proposal though... even going so far as to mention Sisters Militant on rare occassion becoming Rogue Traders).  Oh, just as an aside, Sandy Mitchell's "The Greater Good" - the latest Cain novel - clears up the tech-priest robe descrepancy - some in the area Cain travels in wear white rather than red as a sign of some theological disagreement that Cain didn't really comprehend enough to comment on other than that it apparently existed.  The forgeworld he defended in that novel has a mix of red and white robes present.

 

So, back on topic, if you choose to discount what amounts to all Sisters black library appearances, all we really know about the sister's day to day is:

1: They follow the Imperial Creed so fervently and whole-heartedly that their faith manifests in small miracles (IE: acts of faith)

2: They are a group of women whom live together, train together, and pray together - existing as the militant arm of the Ecclessiarchy.

3: Those who feel that they have failed to uphold the Imperial Creed and their faith voluntarily join the Repentia.

 

So... essentially no information whatsoever on what they are personally allowed to do when not fighting the battles of the Emperor.  That means - assuming that you ignore all Black Library due to varying reasons - that its left for you to make up as you see fit.  Nothing says that they are ascetics or disallowed to do anything in particular... but nothing says they aren't either.  Nothing really nails down what the Imperial Creed requires beyond serving the emperor - but the church seems to be pretty well into opulence while some sects are the opposite, and its been stated that each world often incorporates indegenous beliefs into their worship of the Emperor (though that I think is Black Library again, so YMMV)... so the Imperial Creed is useless for determining anything beyond service to the Emperor. 

 

Ergo, if the codex is the only legitimate fluff source one will accept, then Sisters act however the person painting the models wants them to act so long as they meet the above criteria... so they could be anything from self-denial-automatons to the militarized equivalent of a college soroity.  Which kinda makes the whole discussion a bit moot as everyone is right, but only about their personally created convent.

[Warsmith Aznable]

 Which kinda makes the whole discussion a bit moot as everyone is right, but only about their personally created convent.

 

I don't think this is a pointless conversation. I don't see us as trying to decide once and for all the only correct way to portray this, but to work out different approaches that are consistent with the logic of the setting. We have different ideas about what that means, but by presenting and defending our opinions we refine our position, and there is always the chance that we'll learn something we didn't know or hear an argument we hadn't considered before.

[thade]

...I can assure you that scandal and crime among the religious is not something that Buddhist monks are free of.

Sure, it's definitely true that there are "Buddhist extremists" who are none to nice, just like any other religion. I'm specifically talking about the Dalai Lama (and what few monks are nearly like that particular guy) with regards to his incredible levels of self-awareness and the self-control that brings with it. The D.L. in particular underwent what can be considered an idealized training regime: since about age 4 he's been chanting, studying, and learning about what the various sensations and emotions that arise in his mind are significant of, and learning techniques for addressing each of them. It would take a lot to get into here, but just for example: anger serves no function, from his perspective: it just cripples reason, so he's trained to think through it pretty quickly and not act on it. He never does.

So, when I picture a Space Marine, I picture the photo-negative of that: the marine learns to focus and channel anger into fury, which he does every time, with practiced meditative perfection. Just as the D.L. can chill himself out, the Marine can quickly psych himself up, using mantras and chants, all just as rote to them as breathing is to us.

When we're talking about Sisters (or Space Marines) we're talking about people who are going to be pushed to this point of ideal levels of training and indoctrination, because that is by definition what they are: idealized. So, I do see the Dalai Lama as a very good example, because if we take away the "good" and the "compassion" and replace them with "vehemence" and "lack of mercy", we otherwise have somebody spending their entire lives proactively engaged in a monastery. I expect similar results, mechanically.

My argument is that the more extreme the self denial, and the more brutal the methods used to reinforce it, the more extreme and bizarre those human needs will manifest when the self denial finally fails. Nothing short of altering the physical body (specifically the brain) can remove the impulses and desires, so that those human emotions and desires will always be there.

Intense mental training can actually do what you are saying it cannot. Let's be clear here: this is not "self denial" I'm talking about, not repression, nothing of the sort. This is a very particular, long meditated and practiced level of self-awareness that eludes many people in the real world...but people in the real world don't spend their lives in monasteries. Sisters and Space Marines, for the most part, do.

Now, all of that said, while I've built up (what I find) a very convincing case against romance with either a Sister or a Space Marine as one of the parties involved; it just doesn't make sense to me. That does not rule it out of the realm of possibility, of course; "it's a big universe". Personally I'm not convinced that it's big enough, but that's where we are now: some of you do think it's big enough.

So, I accept it's possible, but the burden on the author to make it believable would be pretty brutal; more so than I think would be reasonable.

If an author really wanted to explore love in 40k and how that applies to Sisters, here's an example of how I would approach it:

The Sisters are purging Cultists and evac'ing a town of skilled miners that the powers-that-be have deemed Valuable. Durig this mission, Sister ToBeNamed and several innocent miners are separated and they spend a long time surviving and fighting, protected really by just this one bamf of a Sister. And two of the miners are in love with each other, and scared that their future may be short...or maybe just embracing what little time they have. (Or some other dynamic else of your choosing.) Now you have all sorts of opportunity to examine the Sister's feelings and reactions to love in the Imperium. What is she fighting for? What does the Emperor care of just two citizens out of untold billions, no matter how much they "love" one another? Wouldn't the Sister see her purpose as greater? How often has she put down heretics, xenos, mutants, in the name of the Big E? What impact have these miners had? Could her attitudes be changed?

Well, I have no idea, and I have my doubts given what I've put out above. But maybe.

[securitas]

are fallen angel marines still marines like in the space wolf omnibus where ragnar and the dark angels were pursuing a fallen who blended inwith regular citizens. to my understandings (which im probably wrong)not all fallen where wholly chaotic. my point being if he wanted to blend in why wouldnt he like hook up with some female and make a life for himself while creating mayhem as they most like to do. soory if this makes know sense

[jacqualine47]

 

 Which kinda makes the whole discussion a bit moot as everyone is right, but only about their personally created convent.

 

I don't think this is a pointless conversation. I don't see us as trying to decide once and for all the only correct way to portray this, but to work out different approaches that are consistent with the logic of the setting. We have different ideas about what that means, but by presenting and defending our opinions we refine our position, and there is always the chance that we'll learn something we didn't know or hear an argument we hadn't considered before.

You mean 'consistent with the setting after we throw out all parts of the setting that disagree with the way we think our personal convent should be'

 

Just saying that things become a bit tedious when every available non-codex bit of fluff is thrown out. I've read everything with Sisters in it except the one book I haven't found for purchase yet - I even read most of Redemption Corps (please don't read it - it kills brain cells). It seems that all that material is being ignored outright in order to make the Sisters fit one's personal POV. Thats not 'consistent with the setting' - its 'alter or ignore the setting to make it consistent with my preconceived notions'

 

With that, I'm bowing out of this - I have nothing further to contribute other than: its ok to rewrite the setting to fit what you want - just acknowledge that by wholesale throwing out five novels, a graphic novel, and two RPG source books you are rewriting the setting rather than working within it.

[Dominion]

However you want to get this scenario rolling it seems highly unlikely to occur. If an author ever pulls it off in a Black Library novel...well that space marine should have the license to also pull out his junk and plop it on the nearest inquisitors forehead.

[*Furyou Miko]

Jacqueline, I said I didn't like it, not that I was going to dismiss it entirely.

 

That said, yes - the fluff nature of 40k is such that everything that can be discussed can only be applied absolutely to your own personal convent. We aren't trying to convince everyone that our version of the fluff is the only absolute version there ever can be, we're just putting our own opinions and extrapolations into the bowl. Ultimately, it's up to you to put it all together to work out how you want your specific convent to work.

 

If I've come across overly strongly in this thread, I apologise - it's been a rough week, between RL stuff and that asinine argument over in Amicus about power armour. If you want your sisters to gamble and release their hormonal reactions by indulging them in a controlled fashion, that's your prerogative, and I don't mean to insist outright that it be any other way. However, I will not hesitate to tell you that I disagree with that interpretation, and I will back up my points from fluff sources and personal experience where appropriate, because that is how discussion is formented.

 

Just like I expect you to.

 

Personally, my convent use intensive mental discipline and... gah, I've forgotten the word. That thing where you channel your frustration with A into solving B instead. If a Sister of the Sacred Tome gets hungry outside mealtimes, she makes fasting an act of devotion. If she gets restless and combative, she spars and trains. If she feels the need to satisfy the third F, she displaces it onto crafting. If she gets broody, she creates something devotional - an icon of the Emperor, for example, or a Ward against Corruption.

 

That said, the Sacred Tome also spend years at a time on their own or in small groups roving the galaxy looking for scraps of knowledge and fragments of the Great Work to extract from their hosts and scribe to be sent back to Arcanis III, accompanied by the constant whisper of temptation from the psychic imprint of a daemonic artifact - and that is not part of the standard Sisters fluff.

[Warsmith Aznable]

The only thing I think I have left to add, is that in 40k the Imperium is vast and ancient. If you look at all the diversity of practice and opinion on this one planet, and then extrapolate that out one million times and give it a ten thousand year history, I think the more reasonable position to take is to allow for exploration of the extreme edges of what's possible rather than assume that the necessarily few and narrow examples that the official authors can provide us represent more than a fraction of what's really going on.

[WarriorFish]

No, there is only war the Emperor!

I think you need to quantify what love is first, and I think the Greeks did that pretty well. First and foremost is the Emperor, followed by the Chapter/Order and then to Squad - after that maybe you can add something else.

So éros - definitely not, but agápē for the Emperor/Chapter/Order and philía for comrades seems reasonable.

[oreaper84]

This conversation is rather uplifting (and rather long to boot) and i feel that there is one item that mat have been left out, or i forgot somewhere in the miles of prior text.... Do the sisters NEED to be in a romantic relationship. We as regular humans (as i have thrown astartes psychology out the window) have an inherant need for companionship due to an unfulfilled desire for appreciation and exceptance. This is usually found in a partner due to the homogenous nature of sharing domestic burdens and satisfying other desires including sexual intamacy. Even in our own time, with our own limitations there have been those who substitute this tangible need with the abstract.  Whether its the widow whom finds solice in his/her god/gods, the "at the grind" business man who's only distraction comes in trivial concourses, or the marooned postal delivery manager finding companionship in a blood-stained volleyball, the void must be filled.

 

All this is to same that the "romance" for any sister would be bordering along the lines of taboo to say the very least and only in the case where the companionship was otherwise not filled by her devotion to the big E and her fellow soritias. I feel that many of us deep down like to feel that love is essential to life, and where as i dont disagree, i will say that it is a gradient and traditional romance is just one hue.

 

Personally, my sisters find thier satisfaction for companionship in each others company. Where love is an excepable and encouraged notion, romance by its nature gives in to illogicacle decisions and rationale, and as such has no place in the spartian life of my order.

[vonny]

I gave up on that power armour discussion in aemicus... Stopped even reading it, so frustrating.

[Fibonacci]

I gave up on that power armour discussion in aemicus... Stopped even reading it, so frustrating.

Same

[WarriorFish]

or the marooned postal delivery manager finding companionship in a blood-stained volleyball, the void must be filled.

For a moment I thought you were talking about an awesome version of volleyball I was unaware of until I realised you were referring to Tom Hanks I am disappointed Battle Volleyball is not a real sport. As for the other topic you will be glad to know it has been given the long overdue Emperor's benediction. I remember when it first started it was a jovial affair... at least I think it was?