sister of battle and astartes love - could it happen?

[thade]

are fallen angel marines still marines like in the space wolf omnibus where ragnar and the dark angels were pursuing a fallen who blended inwith regular citizens. to my understandings (which im probably wrong)not all fallen where wholly chaotic. my point being if he wanted to blend in why wouldnt he like hook up with some female and make a life for himself while creating mayhem as they most like to do. soory if this makes know sense

By "fallen angel" marines, are you referring to the Fallen in the context of the Dark Angels? If so, the specific question (whether a fallen is "wholly chaotic") is best directed in the DA subform. That said, my (limited) understanding is that the answer to that question has purposefully been left ambiguous, though the DA approach it thus: 1. the Fallen do not exist, and if you're not a Dark Angel and you think the Fallen DO exist, you die; 2. if you are one of the DA, the Fallen do not exist, but if you find one, destroy it.

 

Of the three canonical ways for a Space Marine to be consumed by Chaos, only one of them can (but won't necessarily) predispose the Marine to desires of a physically intimate nature; but I caution you against using Slaanesh to justify romance of *any* kind, especially with Sisters, especially on this forum. Use the Search feature and you'll see that this very topic has been done to death here. Summary: nobody likes it; it's cheap, easy, and very often handled sophomorically. Any such desire from the Slaaneshi vector would, by any definition we'd recognize, not be love.

 

Besides, that's only a one in three chance it's Slaanesh, right? More likely the Marine just likes murdering more than even a Marine should OR they're totally cool being covered in flies. In any of these three cases, the Sister would be gleeful about murdering the Marine in question, so...no love to be had there. <3

 

(If we are just talking renegade (not warp-infested but no longer a loyalist) there's still the mountain of biological differences to surmount, as has been discussed above.)

[thade]

And, yes, in case it wasn't clear, I concur with Furyou: I'm not trying to state the end-all/be-all for Sisters; I'm explaining, from my understanding, how I see them. My understanding is necessarily colored by my experiences and readings, both of 40k sources and external literature. I do in fact reject much of the Sisters fluff (what little of it there is) which does in fact leave me with my own fluff, which I've made an effort to describe the mechanics of here. I didn't think that was out of place, as any discussion on the application of fluff to personal fluff extrapolation is going to involve some amount of personal fluff extrapolation.

[Fibonacci]

This is kind of the warning I said at first.  We are all going to see things differently.  There is almost nothing out there regarding romantic relations in 40K and just like with any other bit of lore, what does exist is conflicting.

 

I think we can almost agree that Sisters can form some type of emotional attachment to other people.  It seems that at least half of us feel that Space Marines are past thinking about women as women and would only think about a Sister of Battle in terms of threat assessment or a willingness to fight together for a common goal.

 

Is it possible?  That's up to you.  I can see a story where a loyalist DA is on Caliban when it explodes and is thrown through time like the rest. 

Lands on a planet, trys to blend in.

Becomes a bodyguard for the local powers which happens to be Priest. 

Meets a Sister stationed at the Church/Palace.  They work out together and become friends; maybe more.

DA trace the Fallen to the planet. Capture the Fallen and try to take the Sister as well as several other people the Fallen worked with.

The Fallen spends 5 years in Esekial's constant tourtourious care before dieing.

Sister is assassinated 6 months later.

 

It could make a good story.  But I think it is pushing the envelop of what "could" happen between a SM and any woman much less a Sororitas.

[Cactus]

are fallen angel marines still marines like in the space wolf omnibus where ragnar and the dark angels were pursuing a fallen who blended inwith regular citizens. to my understandings (which im probably wrong)not all fallen where wholly chaotic. my point being if he wanted to blend in why wouldnt he like hook up with some female and make a life for himself while creating mayhem as they most like to do. soory if this makes know sense

By "fallen angel" marines, are you referring to the Fallen in the context of the Dark Angels? If so, the specific question (whether a fallen is "wholly chaotic") is best directed in the DA subform. That said, my (limited) understanding is that the answer to that question has purposefully been left ambiguous, though the DA approach it thus: 1. the Fallen do not exist, and if you're not a Dark Angel and you think the Fallen DO exist, you die; 2. if you are one of the DA, the Fallen do not exist, but if you find one, destroy it.

I'll field this one, if that's ok.

Not all of the Fallen* are Chaos space marines. Some of the Fallen are known to have tried to leave their past behind and hidden themselves amongst human populations. The space marine's unusual physique makes that difficult but it's a weird galaxy and being freakishly tall and strong is not that unusual. Incidentally, we don't have to assume that all the Fallen are full space marines. There could plausibly be Fallen novitiates who never completed the program of implants and hypnosis.

Whether or not he could form a romantic and/or sexual relationship is pretty speculative. However if any space marine can do so I think it's one who rejected both Legion and Imperium, was violently cut off from his brotherhood, and had to guide his own life in whatever random location he found himself. Of all renegade space marines the Fallen are probably the most isolated from their previous conditioning and give the storyteller most freedom.

One slight correction Thade, if a Dark Angel ever encounters a traitor claiming to be a former Dark Angel they should i) ignore his lies and ii) hand him over to their nearest Company Master, Librarian or Interrogator-Chaplain. The Fallen must be given a chance to repent their sins if the first legion's honour is to be restored.

It's interesting that Space Wolves have been mentioned. If I recall correctly a Space Wolf is the only documented case of a space marine having sexual relations with anyone. I wish I could remember the source, but it's probably 20+ years old and filed alongside half-eldar chief librarians.

*A member of the Heresy era Dark Angels training cadre on Caliban who rebelled against the Imperium and was hurled through time and space when the planet was destroyed. This message will now self-destruct.

[thade]

I'll field this one, if that's ok.

I, for one, am happy you did. You are clearly more qualified for it than I am!

One slight correction Thade, if a Dark Angel ever encounters a traitor claiming to be a former Dark Angel they should i) ignore his lies and ii) hand him over to their nearest Company Master, Librarian or Interrogator-Chaplain. The Fallen must be given a chance to repent their sins if the first legion's honour is to be restored.

I admit, I did realize I was being reductionist in my "they die" assessment, but I am curious how often attonement is a path afforded to a Fallen; seems to me that the Imperium's general "Shoot first; why ask questions?" mechanic would be carried to an extreme by one of the Legions striving so hard to cover up for what it sees as a gross failure. But procedure is procedure, especially where tradition and superstition are concerned. A topic for another time (and forum) though.

It's interesting that Space Wolves have been mentioned.

Personally, I purposely avoided them; Wolves are awesome, don't get me wrong. The issue I see is that they're patterned after Vikings and "barbarians" which carry certain thematic 'baggage'...expectations that I assert are, if nothing else, done to death across pulp literature. I'm not staying compelling stories can't be told with Space Wolves (indeed, they can be) but I am saying that it's not my setting of choice to explore romance...as it would almost invariably result in being (best case) tacky.

[Warsmith Aznable]

It's interesting that Space Wolves have been mentioned. If I recall correctly a Space Wolf is the only documented case of a space marine having sexual relations with anyone. I wish I could remember the source, but it's probably 20+ years old and filed alongside half-eldar chief librarians.

Not so old, actually. In the fifth edition Space Wolves codex is the tale of The Lost Company of Svengar the Red, a company of Space Wolves who travel beyond the light of the Astronimicon to the extreme, lonely fringes of the galaxy. After a long voyage through empty space they find a planet full of fair looking people:

Relieved to have found a base of operations Svengar and his men begin to relax and enjoy themselves, feasting and recounting tales of their deeds to the fair people of the far-flung world. It is only when Svengar makes a casual pass at one of their women that the Space Wolves realise their hosts are not people at all. Though they fight bravely, Svengar and his men are never seen again.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

From the Marine side of the loving or lustful relationship, there are a number of both problems and possibilities to explore.

As currently recruited, loyalist Space Marines are taken at an age where they hardly have even a simple understanding of romantic love and cut off from further developments in that regard. They are also taken roughly as puberty is taking place. Though it's doubtless they understand the idea of relationships between men and women, it's probably a foreign concept inhabiting neurons they never exercise.

 

Renegade and Chaos Space Marines, both those who fall and those who are recruited/created (Daemonculaba or whatever)outside the strictures of the Codex are potentially free of these barriers if they choose to explore them (though a Space Marine, being chiefly built for battle, will probably seek that instead). Indeed, there's a hint to this effect in the 4th edition Codex that MrBigMr on Warseer positively loved me bringing up:

Codex: Chaos Space Marines, page 6: "...a Chaos Space Marine can exercise his every whim, whether it is for bloodshed, sensual pleasure, ambition, love, or hatred... Some Chaos Space Marines seek to inflict pain and pleasure upon themselves... searching for a sensual reward that they were never intended to enjoy."

 

So Space Marines can attempt to fulfill themselves sensually and perhaps romantically, if they cast off the shackles of the False Emp- *notices the pilot lights of a dozen heavy flamers* -er, fall from grace or what have you. However, how is a traitor to the Emperor to win the lady fair, if the lady fair be a Sororitas? He's as likely to kiss her hand as she is to not empty every magazine, fuel cell, and promethium tank in his general direction.

 

And on the side of the Sororitas herself, the possibility of even a normal sort of relationship with anyone will be unlikely and depend on the given strictness of the Order she belongs to; if she's caught, or turns herself in, well, someone's got to dress scantily and wield giant chainsaws. But it depends on the Order in question and the circumstances.

 

Now, a Space Marine might find himself for whatever reason under whatever circumstances exercising those forgotten neurons in proximity to a woman, and perhaps find himself curious, hungry, or even overpoweringly needful. He doesn't have to fall from grace for this to happen (it doubtless helps). In most cases, such a Marine would seek the guidance of his Chaplain to steer him back on the right path, though clearly some Chapters are less immaculate than others (Space Wolves want their valkyries). And what might a Space Marine think of any non-enhanced human, depending on his Chapter's Cult? Should he even be friendly to them, much less lie with them or love them? Or are they beneath him? Or are they simply beyond him as he is beyond them, virtually on a different plane of existence as far as psychological and social development goes?

 

Sisters of Battle often have a contentious view of Space Marines, as inhuman as they seem. Though created by the Emperor, fundamental in his Great Crusade, and inheritors of his genetic line, they seem to discerning eyes (as Sisters are) to deviate too far in both body and spirit to be tolerated by the Imperium of the year 40,000.

 

The confluence of all of these barriers and rules and prejudices and so forth make the possibility of the romance envisioned in this thread millions to one. But it is a big galaxy, and whatever happens, one random coupling that Was Not Meant To Be will not be missed...

[AtlasDM]

Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating [a Sister's corset] is approximately 3,720 to 1.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

 

NEVER tell me the odds!

 

 

Furthermore, the odds are worse to become a Space Marine in the first place, so should the opportunity present itself...

[Dread]

 

Remember this one? I think love transends anything and anywhere. But that's just me.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Are you suggesting that love can bloom on the battlefield?

[WarriorFish]

This is just like one of my Japanese animés!

 

Oh wait, sorry, wrong quote...

[thade]

Alright, folks; I think this one's run its course and I'm honestly a bit worried if it continues to spin its wheels we'll tread back into the territory I previously cautioned against...so I'm lockin' it.

Given enough requests with novel things to add, I will reopen it. <3