march10k Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Re: March10k's post, I see it another way. I don't believe Razorbacks are conflicted in their role, I believe they provide tactical flexibility. Yes you pay extra points for a heavy weapon but you can choose each turn whether to take advantage of it's firepower (moving 6" that turn), or if no priority targets present themselves, you take advantage of it's mobility (and you still get Snap Shots with a Twin-Linked weapon). No sale. If you move 6" and shoot, you not only move at the speed of dismounted infantry, completely negating the claimed mobility benefit, you're preventing the infantry on board from shooting in the process, effectively swapping infantry shooting for vehicle shooting (yes, I know it's a heavy weapon, which against some targets is better than five boltguns or four boltguns and a special weapon) Where the Rhino is a pure APC and the Predator is a pure MBT (in terms of Astartes vehicles), the Razorback is an IFV. Jack of all trades, master of none, like the Astartes themselves. I disagree. The razorback is not an IFV for two reasons. IFVs have fire points, and IFVs provide a significant survivability bonus to the squad inside. Guardsmen inside a chimera are dramatically safer than dismounted. The same cannot be said of marines inside a rhino. Sure, if a template D weapon hits the rhino, the guys inside are fine, versus dead, but in any average round of enemy shooting, AV11 doesn't really represent significantly better protection than power armor. Certainly not for the price! A chimera is an IFV, a Razorback is a (very!) light tank with a small troop compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 My kid asked me if he hid his razorback behind a rhino could it be shot. I told him that it probable could as the gun would be able to shoot over the rhino but wasn't 100%. I never use them so this never came up. At work at the moment so no books :( Guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The razorback traces its line of sight from the gun barrels, so can potentially see over a rhino. The razorback's turret is a legitimate part for you to trace line of sight to and a rhino is unlikely to conceal it entirely. Pages 72 and 73. [edit] Wait... why/how is your son asking you 40k questions while you're working?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[TA]Typher Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 He asked me the other day. reading this thread reminded me. I know the razorbcak can shoot over the rhino, but could you shoot the razorback with only the gun showing? And if so.. would that be a 4+ Cover save? Seeing how you can't see the facing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yup 4+ cover to you, helps heaps with keeping the damned fragile things alive :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Brucey Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Only the standard 5+ cover, as the turret is a legitimate target. Still it's better than nothing, though a Land Speeder gets the same save simply by moving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Apparently I have been playing incorrectly, haha to my opponents. To be fair though, we in my group don't really see the gun mount as a turret and see it more like a pintle mount even though it functions more like a turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 lol...so you think it's fair to be able to shoot but not be shot? reminds me of the dirtbag who modeled his land raider's lascannons on the roof and then built terrain the exact height to completely conceal everything but the "sponsons" (not turrets!) in an effort to have his cake and eat it, too. Yep, that was an epic dreadsocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I just got the save wrong by one point not what you said ;) Edit: overreaction after work :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm just amused that your interpretation of the weapon mount was "pintle," when a pintle-mounted weapon is by definition operated by hand by a person (sticking out of a hatch, in the case of a vehicle), not remotely from safely inside the tank... a top-mounted sponson, I could see, though. I should clarify that I was not equating you to the previously mentioned dirtbag, just that he made his mars pattern "I have commanding fields of fire, but you can't target me" land raider using two razorback TLLCs...the untargetable top-mounted godhammer, not the cheaterish intent, was the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 That's what I thought, and is why I edited my rant ;) We (my gaming group) have all been doing it wrong, as mentioned above. We didn't plainly state it was a pintle, we just never really called it a turret and used the hull proper as the thing to draw LoS and determine cover saves from. I will clarify with them the next time it comes up. All is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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