appiah4 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 My 1,000 pt infantry Blood Angels force is now (all but) completely painted, and I'm dreading the idea of what to do with the chapter and squad markings. 30+ models and 2 dreadnoughts currently await heraldry. I've tried using decals in the past. It did not turn out well. The decals simply refused to go on the curved surfaces of the shoulder plates, flaked or peeled off. I've tried sealing them in place with brushed on matte varnish - didn't work. I don't have the courage (maybe not even the talent) to paint so many chapter symbols on by hand. And I have no idea what to do at this point. To make things worse, I have no access to specialty decal products like Pine Sol (?) etc. I'm badly in need of practical advice. Thanks in advance :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurth Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Get yourself some Micro Set and Sol. Soak the decal in some water; while it’s doing that, brush Micro Set onto the area where the decal is to go. Apply the decal, maneuver it into position and press down firmly with a piece of soft cloth, a paper handkerchief, or similar. Apply a liberal coating of Micro Sol and don’t touch the decal until that’s dried. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3590827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemal Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Decal products ship by airmail most times. And even vinegar does the trick so I've heard. Also gloss varnish the pad before you apply teh decal, gloss varnish over teh decal and then mattify it.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3590931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 KNOW NO FEAR!!!! it's only a decal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Putting decals on the curved surface of a shoulder pad can be something of a nightmare. As previously mentioned, you might want to invest in some decal setting agents to help you along, but here's how I got about it: 1) Apply at least 1 coat of gloss varnish to the area and let it dry thoroughly. Why? Because there are lots of tiny little pits in the surface of the paint that you can't really see and they can trap tiny air bubbles under the decal film making it difficult to get it to lay flat. The gloss varnish will fill in all those little imperfections and help the decal lay flat. 2) Cut the decal out, trimming the film as close to the decal image as you can. For some decals, especially those with a winged icon, they might buckle along stress lines where the decal is trying to curve around the shoulder pad. You might have to make small slits in the decal film around the wings to relieve this stress. I'd suggest trying this out before using any of the setting solution to see how it lays and how making little cuts in the film affects it. 3) When you're ready to put the decal down for good, get a shallow dish and put a small amount of water in it. Some people use big bowls or cups of water to soak the decal in, but this makes it very easy for the decal to get loose from the film and float or sink away from it, making you chase it and possibly destroy it while trying to retrieve it. Let it soak for a good minute or so, and then brush some Micro Set on the shoulder pad and carefully transfer the decal over. Use a small paintbrush to maneuver it into place and also to brush any air bubbles out from under the film. If it starts to dry out while you're working, just apply more Micro Set. 4) If it still won't lay flat at this point, you can brush Micro Sol on top of it - this is a solvent that will chemically soften the film and at first it might look like it has destroyed your decal because it will often appear to shrink up and wrinkle terribly, but just leave it alone for 24 hours and the decal should flatten out and conform to the surface of the shoulder pad. 5) Apply a coat of gloss varnish on top of the decal to ensure that it stays down and it will also help hide the edges of the decal film. Here's a shot of my Angels of Vengeance test figure using the above steps: http://i.imgur.com/GvrCrOK.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 B-C Kage has it right, definately pre trim ALL the clear extra crap off the decal with a scalpel prior to submerging it in water to minimise the amount of space required and extra curve errors. If you can't source that Micro sol stuff ( I can't, I live in the dark ages) then use your girlfriends nailpolish remover (acetone) to melt the decal onto the uneven surface. I just use a paintbrush and dab a small amount all over then guide the decal into the right place. The decal will wrinkle for a few minutes as it drys, use that time to GENTLY flatten it if required and to keep it in position if it wants to move. Do NOT panic and overdo the adjustments as the weakened decal may rip and become unmanagable, just wait patiently for it to settle itself. I have done a whole battle company, both shoulders and squad type markings decals under squad numbers on the right side (so about 250-300 decals) and only had about 5 decals or so fail on me with this stuff. I also didn't bother with preglazing the model as acetone will melt the decal onto any (???) rough surface no problem. I did spray matte varnish over top to protect them too, nothing worse than having to redo them every year... 2c more EDIT: Just re-read all of BC Kages points, I could have saved my breath on most points but I still stand by Acetone as a great way to speed up and improve the process (maybe that Microsol stuff is just acetone by another name) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 MicroSol or some hobby equivalent decal softener is practically mandatory. MicroSet I find to be optional as it's very similar to MicroSol but with a slightly different formula. On one hand, you should be glad you're playing BA where you can get their decals by the truck-full if you ever mess up or run out of decals. Some chapters have been discontinued from Forge World and their decal sheets cost a whopping $20 each, and that's if they can even find any more to buy. On the other hand, official GW decals are very thick and difficult to work with. With MicroSol you can pretty much gloss the shoulder, place the decal, then spam MicroSol for a couple of days and the decal will naturally go flat over time. Once it dries, if there's any wrinkles or parts sticking up, hit it with MicroSol again and let it dry. Do this like 20+ times and you will naturally wear down the decal so it's flat. The faster but trickier method is the cutting slits to help it conform as people have mentioned. I don't do this, because like I said, my decals cost $20 a sheet and only come with enough to do 40 or so marines so I don't want to mess around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Acetone works in Minutes, once. I got the advice from an aircraft technician who deals in the stuff at his work. Again; it works in minutes, one application, once. :D Do not fear decals any longer, use acetone and be free. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 How can acetone be safe, doesn't it completely mess up the acrylic paintjob when applied onto the model? Not sure I understand how to use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurth Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 spam MicroSol for a couple of days and the decal will naturally go flat over time. Once it dries, if there's any wrinkles or parts sticking up, hit it with MicroSol again and let it dry. Do this like 20+ timesWhat? How many times?! One coat has been all I’ve ever needed for GW decals, especially on a smooth surface like a shoulder pad; some other makes might require two or even three applications if the decal is to go over a lot of detail (like big WWII Allied stars on rivets, hinges, etc. on 1/72nd scale kits), but that’s it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3591671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 How can acetone be safe, doesn't it completely mess up the acrylic paintjob when applied onto the model? Not sure I understand how to use it. Acetone is what I use to strip paint from metal figures, and by strip, I mean after a 4-5 hour soak the paint is GONE. Eaten away. The first time I did it was on some metal figures I had gotten from eBay where the guy had painted them with enamels and used so much superglue to secure them to the slot bases that I couldn't remove them, and the acetone completely dissolved the plastic bases as well. Maybe something with a small percentage of acetone in it, like the nail polish remover that Stobz mentioned, but I'd even be wary of that damaging the paint job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3592041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I do only use a very small amount, like the amount of paint you would use to paint the same area. I do not soak anything in it. After 250-300 uses I have had NO paint stripping problems, only a couple of melted decals due to over use while I was trialling it. Honestly it is marvellous to use, but maybe like B-C Kage says it is not 'pure' acetone in the nail polish remover. I will check tonight Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3592132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Just checked: nail polish remover is 800g/L so I guess about 80acetone/20 watered down Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286665-decals-the-banes-of-my-existence/#findComment-3592442 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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