Eternal Warrior question.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Yeah, they did a 180. One or two models with Eternal Warrior a Codex.

 

Then they did a 180 again, or at least a 120, when C:SM got an artefact that gives any guy who can take it Eternal Warrior.

[march10k]

~shrug~ That's not so bad. It's not the same as combining EW with the special rules (like Pedro's +1A aura and scoring sternguard) that come with a special character. I mean, you kit out a generic char with full challenge monkey gear like that, he's gonna cost close to 200 points...which means you're choosing full-aggro face-smashiness over special rules for the same price.

[shortysl]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the only character we have that truly justifies the Eternal Warrior rule (and yet doesn't get it), is Belial. Before he was even elevated to the 1st Company, he took a punch to the gut from Ghazgkull Thraka and still managed to lead the defence of Piscina IV.

 

Any other Astartes heroes taking punches from a warrior with the strength of a Dreadnought and living to lead a successful campaign around here? No? Didn't think so.

[ValourousHeart]

Big deal he survived an Ork Donkey Punch. Would it be nice if B had EW? Sure would. Is he useless without it? Heck no!!

 

There are plenty of characters in the 40K universe that are actually immortal, that don't have EW. And I remember Piscina IV differently, yes he lead the defense, but I don't recall that he did much after Ghaz handed B his colon. He certainly didn't jump right up and strangle Ghaz with that colon. Now that would have earned Balial EW!

[shortysl]

Eternal Warrior has nothing to do with how long-lived a character is; it's representative of the fact that they're almost impossible to kill, which is why Commissar Yarrick has it.

 

To say that surviving a fight with someone like Ghazgkull Thraka and then going on to conduct a successful campaign (whether he fought in it or not) is not deserving of the Eternal Warrior rule is, in my opinion, ridiculous! Exactly what sort of criteria would you suggest a character need fulfil in order to gain the rule? Honestly, it'd be like taking a wrecking ball to the face, waking up in hospital and orchestrating the fighting in Afghanistan single-handedly. And winning. Then going on to completely recover.

 

Of course Belial isn't useless without the rule, but IF any character within our codex is deserving of it, surely it would be him. None of the fluff on the other characters would support them being given EW, not even Sammael.

[ValourousHeart]

I know that my opinion is blasphemous considering that I am a fellow DA player, but it is not rediculous.

 

To start with Space Marines are practally immortal, it is unknown if they can die outside of being killed.

 

Now from what I remember of the story Belial started in command of the campaign and was also active in the fighting of that same campain.... but was not participating in much of either after his encounter with Ghazgkull. Whereas Yarrick still managed to kill all of the Orks attacking him (except Ghazgkull) in the fight that took his arm... and still managed to lead and fight in the rest of that campaign.

 

Now Belial is a SM and Yarrick is just a man. So even if Belial and Yarrick did the exact same thing, the more epic would be Yarrick. But I don't think that Belial even did as well as Yarrick, which is why I feel that he doesn't deserve EW.

 

Now let's take a look at some other characters, with and without EW. Sammie's predicessor died when he was stepped on by a Titan. Sammie on the other hand not only survived when his thunder hawk exploded, in mid air mind you, he was able to keep his wits about him long enought to grab his Jetbike and fly it out of the falling exploding wreckage like some crazy combo of Steve McQueen and Lando Calrizion.

 

And while we are talking about other personalities, The Lion beat Russ unconscience, should that mean that Russ should have EW? Or the fact that Russ ran into the Eye of Terror on a lone hunt, or any of his other myrad of accomplishments. I am not saying that Russ or the Lion shouldn't have EW, I am just saying that quoting the Wolf and the Lion as the primary reason that Russ should have EW is dumb.

 

So it isn't about surviving... because SM are as i said basically immortal unless they die in battle. EW is about having the strength to pick up your arm, and beating someone to death with it... like Yarrick did. And let's not forget that Yarrick has been almost beaten to death multiple times. And he is the only one who has ever hurt Ghazgkull. Oh and one more bit lets take a look at Ghazgkull's side of the story... Look at how much Yarrick is mentioned, then look at the mention of Belial.

 

And swinging around again to my comment about characters that can't die and that don't have EW. Saint Celestine and that GK guy are both truely immortal, they litterally can not die... they can't die to such a degree that they have a special rule that allows them to return to play right after they were removed from play. That is an even more powerful version of EW, yet niether one can take a lascannon shot to the head. Both have to make a roll to see if they are EW enough this time.

 

Now I will fully agree that it would be nice to have EW on Belial, but if your only anecdote for why he should have it is that one time where Ghazgkull beat the crap out of him. That is pretty weak evidence.

[shabbadoo]

The ability Belial should have is not Eternal Warrior, but Preferred Enemy (Orks).  It is part of his background.  Why it was left out is not quite so vexing as Nazdreg being left out of Codex: Orks 4E, but it is up there on my list.

[Pbenner]

Meh,

 

Belial survived a swing with a PowerClaw nearly tearing him in half - He should be T5;  I think that is the best compromise.  It saves him from inst-gib from Las, Missiles, etc, but also leaves him open to big bad nasty stuff and force weapons.  He's also a grizzled old soldier, he's got to be tougher than your average marine...  

 

Paul

[Cactus]

Paul, couldn't one make the same argument for any first captain?

[Pbenner]

I think there is a big difference between a generic captain and a named character;  Especially in the points premium and fluff department.  If there was an option to add to generic captains called: "My be upgraded to "Captain of the 1st Company"" - X Points, I would go for that just to show is a tough SOB.  (For C:SM Obviously)  

 

But that is a very good point, Cactus...

 

Paul

[Isiah]

In my humble opinion, no human or SM should have EW as a base special rule. EW at base should be soley the realm of those favoured by Chaos Gods or in some other way touched by its or other, 'magic'.

 

Wargear that confers EW to humans and SM is fine - but at only one item per army.

 

I don't agree Belial or for that matter Sammy should have EW.

 

Cheers

I

[Cactus]

Wargear that confers EW to humans and SM is fine - but at only one item per army.

I don't agree Belial or for that matter Sammy should have EW.

That's a bit unfair, Sammael's eternal warrior is provided by his wargear and it's the only one in our army.

[Isiah]

Yes I'm glad GW agree with me ;)

[shortysl]

Yarrick didn't lose his arm to Ghazgkull. Yarrick subsequently beheaded the Ork that took his arm (Nazdreg I think?), pretty much guaranteeing it wasn't the still-living Ghazgkull Thraka. He is one of the most powerful melee fighters in the 40k universe, surviving the kind of wounds that Belial took in a fight with him is, in my opinion, worthy of Eternal Warrior. Whether or not you agree with that ValorousHeart is irrelevant to me just as whether or not I agree with you is largely irrelevant to you I would imagine.

 

Belial's continued involvement in, and leading of, the Piscina campaign is regarded as the reason that the Dark Angels won. This was done AFTER Belial was almost mortally wounded by the warlord.

 

The Lion and the Wolf; both are Primarchs, equally matched. One beating the other unconscious would never be a reason for Eternal Warrior, but then I suspect you already knew that. The point about Belial and Ghazgkull is that they, unlike two Primarchs, were not equally matched.

 

Either way, we've both made our opinions known and we disagree. I'll say no more as it risks pulling the thread off-topic.

[Cactus]

Yarrick didn't lose his arm to Ghazgkull. Yarrick subsequently beheaded the Ork that took his arm (Nazdreg I think?), pretty much guaranteeing it wasn't the still-living Ghazgkull Thraka.

 

The ork warboss' name was Ugulhard. I'm not surprised you can't remember, he's only famous for donating his arm to Yarrick and I had to look it up!

[[TA]Typher]

Personally EW for belial would be nice as he is too expensive for what he does. He really needs a point reduction in his current state. 

[march10k]

I think saying "Yarick is more worthy of EW because he's merely human" completely misses the point. It's not (any more) an imperial award for valor! Either you can survive being stepped on by a titan, or you can't. What makes that kind of thinking even more illogical is that Yarick and Belial are both T4...Yarick gets +1T And EW...Belial gets nothing. I would be thrilled with him getting either one.

[ValourousHeart]

I am not sure why you fail to see a difference between a normal human and a genetically modified space marine... And I really don't know where to begin to help you understand.

 

But maybe I can use pro-wrestling and boxing metaphors. Take Hulk Hogan and have him body slam Randy Savage... That is Ghaz vs Belial.

 

Now take Mike Tyson and have him beat up Robin Gibbons... That is Ghaz vs Yarrick.

 

My point was that Belial ended up looking like Robin after the fight, where Yarrick looked like Randy.

 

Belial should have been the equal or better than Ghaz, but he wasn't. And Yarrick should have died.... But he didn't.

 

But really this is just my opinion, and it is really taking this off topic.

 

It would be great for Belial to have EW, but I don't think he needs it nor deserves it.

[march10k]

YARRICK IS NOT A "NORMAL HUMAN!!!!"

 

Whew.  That's better.  Yarrick and Belial are both T4.  Does it really matter that Belial was genetically modified to get his +1T, while Yarrick's is just an accident of nature?  What sense does it make that an errant lascannon shot kills Belial but merely wounds Yarrick?

[Xenith]

Eldar, Tau, and more specifically Eltaur are winning tournaments. The majority of them as well. I will say it again, without serious list tailoring, I believe your chances of winning are halved before one dice is rolled

They win tournament because v6 is based on S5-S6 shooting saturation and that's their main weaponry. recommends at least 25% of the table is covered with a mixture of LOS blocking, area terrain, and ruins, and the terrain is spread so thin between multiple tables at tournaments that they probably get closer to 12.5%, with no large LOS blockers.

Fixed that one for ya

[march10k]

LOL...S5/6 shooting?  LOL...like 120 points for a chimera with hull HB, turret multilaser, and an autocannon (ok, that's S7?) in the hatch, and it takes up 1/6 of a troops choice...why are people crying about tau and eldar, not IG?

[Master Avoghai]

I agree with the terrain thing, as I often see post here about losses that happens on empty terrain and people asking for tactical advices when the first thing to do is having more pieces of terrain...

 

But you wouldn't convince me about the S5-S6 saturation... I always see scatter laser spam, not bright lances spam

[Chaplain Lucifer]

For reference, this is OP's question:

Simple question really, why is it, that there are no eternal warriors in
the dark angel codex? Is there a fluff reasoning behind it, or does GW
really hate Dark Angels? Was it a simple mistake? Laziness? Any comments
would be greatly appreciated as I am extremely frustrated with this. I
was playing Azreal under the assumption he was EW and my opponent
pointed out that he wasn't. Help me understand this fellow first
company!!!

 

I'm sure you guys and gals get my drift.. ;)

[Xenith]

^^ Well the facetious answer is that GW doesn't like traitor codexes.

An actual answer is that the OP is incorrect in stating that there are no EW in the DA codex, and made an incorrect assumption regarding Azrael possessing the rule.

There are not more or less EW than from the 4th-5th ed codexes. The rule was first seen (by that name) on the Phoenix Lords to combat their T4. So whoever said Eldar don't get it was incorrect. However this is justified, as by taking a phoenix lord you sacrifice the force multiplication of a farseer in order to take a (generally) combat only character. That is T4. It needs EW to be of any use whatsoever. Before it was actually called 'Eternal Warrior' the rule was initially seen in the Chaos 3.5 codex under 'daemonic rune' which made the character immune to ID from double toughness, so a slightly weaker version of the current one, but any HQ could take it.

To sum up, DA dont get loads of models with Eternal Warrior because you get lots of other stuff instead.

[Master Avoghai]

The S5-6 is directly linked to the OP statement that claim for EW on our characters to be competitive.

 

Eldar and Tau which seems to be his nemesis are not base on S8 spam but on S6 spam on mobile shooting platforms.

 

Hence I clearly don't see how EW would help against those...