What do GK competitive lists look like nowadays?

[Brovius]

I've been out of it for most of 6th due to bitter vet syndrome, how to pure GK lists look these days?
I like my silver supersoldiers, if I wanted an army of mere mortals riding in Chimeras I'd play IG :p so as expected, I'm not looking for lists with more than a single Inquisitor (I have Coteaz and I modelled another in Relictor

-scheme Power armour.

 

Aside from the no Inquisition thing, what sort of a list would you recommend? I'm looking around 1500pts as that's what the local club usually play, and I can always scale it up to 2k points where needed, I'd just like to know a good core list :)

 

Thanks in advance!

[IndigoJack]

No henchman? Hmm, that's a tall order, sir! I'd say draigostar still does okay, although you could be in for some bad match ups (looking at you riptides!). Stormravens are still sold, I prefer mine with the TLLC and TLMM. Psyflemen are still good, but not as invincible as they were in 5th. Strikes are still good, but they're now significantly more expensive than their marine counterparts. Dreadknights are still really good, just don't go overboard on upgrades as they add up fast.

 

Maybe something like

 

Draigo

 

Coteaz (for some psychic stuff)

 

10x pallys w/ 4 psycannons, bro banner, apothecary, CC weapons to taste

 

a few solodins (reserve these guys, they're hopefully going to pick up your scoring late game)

 

Heavy Support (psyflemen or DKs) or Storm Raven as points allow.

 

 

Hope that helps!

[Gentlemanloser]

Abuse Codex: Inquisition for TDA Psycannon Inquisitors and Skulls, or just cheap Divination psykers for buffing your Squads.

 

A few folk use 'Ravens, I'm just not fond of Fliers.

 

NDKs are still silly good.

 

Personally, I don't use Dreads, I've found them to be far to fragile in every game I've used them. :(  I'd rather ally in some Devestator Centurion.

 

To be honest, what a competitive GK list looks like depends on who you're gonna face.  Baledrake/Riptides, you want TDA.  Otherwise Strikes (and sometimes even Purifiers now).

 

Building an all comers GK list is quite difficult.

 

How about;

 

HQ: OM Inquisitor, TDA, Psycannon, PML1 (110)

HQ: OM Inquisitor, TDA, Psycannon, PML1 (110)

 

Troop: GKT x10, Psycannon x2 (450)

Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220)

Troop: Strike x10, Psycannon x2 (220)

 

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

Heavy: NDK, H Incinerator (160)

 

HQ: OM Inquisitor, TDA, Psycannon, PML1 (110)

 

Total: 1,540

 

Probably not too competitive if you face a lot of fliers, but 1,500 is going to be difficult. :(

[jeffersonian000]

I run a 1500pt Ghostwing, which has some good match ups, although I play more competitively than my army is built for.

 

Mordrak + 3 Ghosts w/ Banner, Halberds

 

Librarian w/ Staff, Homer, 2 Powers (usually Warp Rift, Sanctuary)

 

10man GKT w/ Psycannons, Banner, 2 Swords, 3 Halberds, 4 Hammers

 

10man GKT w/ Psycannons, 2 Swords. 4 Halberds, 4 Hammers, Psybolts

 

Mordrak + Libby, as well as the Banner GKT are reserved, while the Psybolt GKT are combat squaded and deployed in cover. I usually drop Morkrak and Crew right next something that needs to die fast, and Psy Comm the Banner GKT in on Turn 2, if I can. Good placement makes Mordrak's Bomb last longer, while bad placement ensures losing First Blood. I have been known to drop the banners, the Psybolts, and powers for more Ghosts, Skills, and book powers, yet the core posted above seems to work fine for me. I've also swapped out the Ghost Halberds for Swords, and taken Quicksilver for the LoLs.

 

To this core I have two 10man PAGK squads that can be Strikers or Interceptors, two DreadKnights, a Stormraven, and some WIP TDA Inquisitors to augment the Mordrak Bomb.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Jeff, have you thought about dropping two Ghosts for a OM Inq in TDA?  You gain a wound and an extra Psycannon, and can't lose the mini if Mordrak buys it.  The unit is also still majority T4.

 

And there's no point difference.

 

Obviously, this is a no go if C:I is banned. ;)

[Brovius]

Thanks for the feedback guys!
I really enjoy playing fluffy GK lists, being one of the old guard that had to endure through the monobuild water warrior days of Codex: Daemonhunters.

As expected I own twice as many Land Raiders as I have Dreadnoughts :p

 

I never actually fielded Draigowing surprisingly, I even cannibalised his model to make my GK Librarian. I may have to give it a shot.

I am intrigued with running a Mordrak list, perhaps after I've finished painting him I'll try that list out too.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

>competitive Knights

Guys, forget about it. We're not going to beat the top dogs. Eldar, Tau, Necrons and CSM can and will wreck us at a tourney level. 

 

The only top tier army we beat into dirt is Daemons, and that's due to our obvious advantages. 

 

I'd focus instead on making lists that suit your local playerbase. As others have mentioned, if you have to deal with Heldrakes, go Terminator heavy so they're useless. If you fight Riptides, go DK  and Henchmen heavy. If you fight FMC's or Flyer lists, Ravens are the go-to option (plus a Quad Gun obviously). If you fight them all on a regular basis, Throne have mercy on you. 

[AnImA8]

>competitive Knights 

 

I'd focus instead on making lists that suit your local playerbase. As others have mentioned, if you have to deal with Heldrakes, go Terminator heavy so they're useless. If you fight Riptides, go DK  and Henchmen heavy. If you fight FMC's or Flyer lists, Ravens are the go-to option (plus a Quad Gun obviously). If you fight them all on a regular basis, Throne have mercy on you.

 

lol this is where I'm at currently, and it's pretty awful. You can either spam all into one unit type and pray you don't get matched up with your least-favored matchup, or you can try and build a blend of everything and pray your game lasts long enough for you to enjoy it.

[jeffersonian000]

GML, you notice the last sentence of my previous post? Where I mentioned Work in Progress TDA Inquisitors? Yeah, those will be from Codex =][=.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

Doh!

 

:)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Lol this is where I'm at currently, and it's pretty awful. You can either spam all into one unit type and pray you don't get matched up with your least-favored matchup, or you can try and build a blend of everything and pray your game lasts long enough for you to enjoy it.

The thing is, GW is killing the whole idea of 'take all comers' lists. Look at tourney results. Boring list after boring list of the same power build. You literally cannot compete reliably (caveat, player skill can take a list further than it otherwise would go) without taking the 'stronk' version of your army. rather than say your actual preferences. 

 

I dunno what should be done. I can think of some basic FAQ's that would take a lot of the heat out of the uber builds, but it won't fix the ongoing GW disability of 'huehehuehuehueh what is balance'. Yeah, not every unit has to be costed properly, or have good wargear options, or even good rules. But at least create a baseline that means when I put my dudes on the table, one enemy model can't just vape them turn after turn without reprisal. It's boring for both players, really. 

 

So, as an interim solution (because GW refuse to), I'd suggest some houserules to tone down the stupidity of the current meta;

 

General rules:

- FMC's automatically lose a wound when grounded. No roll to wound, no save, they just faceplanted at speed, get fugged. They are Pinned if Grounded (even if Fearless). This further increases the drawbacks of just yolo'ing into enemy gunlines (which is what FMC's can do currently). 

- Invulnerable saves cannot be higher than a 3+. Invulnerable saves cannot be re-rolled for any reason. 

Eldar:

- Serpent Shields are one-use. Look at me, I'm a genius game designer! In traditional Eldar fashion, you hit like a truck for one turn, then you have to play by the rules. 

- 10-man minimum for mechanised units. It doesn't stop the spam, but it makes it harder at all point levels. So instead of 6+ Serpents, it's more like 4-5. 

Tau:

- Riptides are a 0-1 Elite choice per detachment. So at 2k, you can have two, provided you fulfill the requirements for a secondary detachment (1 HQ + 2 Troops). Riptides cannot be joined by Independent Characters, even if the Riptide has purchased drones. 

Necrons:

- If a Night Scythe is destroyed before deploying a unit that was inside, that unit is destroyed as well. This forces the Necron player to commit to the actual fugging battle, instead of just timing you out for 5 turns then winning by spamming onto objectives. 

Daemons:

- Mark of Tzeentch lets you force the enemy to re-roll successful rolls to wound. This is still pretty powerful and helps out their T3 Troops, but against weapons that wound on a 2+ (or have Preferred Enemy, like Knights), they're still probably taking the wound. 

- You cannot attach more than one Herald to a single unit (as they would argue and squabble for glory). 

 

And just like that, the power builds vanish. And xenos/daemons have to go back to actually building real armies, not retarded 'hue field da broken stuffs' cookie cutter. 

[Brovius]

As a Tyranid player also, that houserule to FMCs is horrendous and makes the saving grace of the new codex; Flyrants and Crones, even worse.

 

FMCs are already inferior to actual flyers (especially the Tyranid ones that have no form of Invuln save at all, and still cost more than every flyer that isn't a Storm Raven. Also, T5 4+ save is horrendously easy to kill with almost anything. A few forking Razorbacks with Heavy Bolters can pop them out of the skies with relative ease.

Chaos Daemon FMCs might be a bit different, but grounding tests themselves are a tremendous drawback to FMCs. You can't deal a free S9 AP2 hit to a Nightscythe just by shooting a lasgun or markerlight at it, and they be allowed to shoot/assault at it afterwards with no penalty, can you?

 

Grounding tests need to either fail on a 1, or are only triggered when you inflict an unsaved wound on the FMC. Guardsmen firing blindly in the sky and getting a free lascannon shot at a Hive Tyrant is just stupid. Markerlights turning into a lascannon is just as bad.

 

/rant

 

Now back to GKs, what's a good basis for a 1000pt army? I love using 10-man Interceptors with Psybolt ammo for kiting, and last-turn contesting is a plus.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

FMCs are already inferior to actual flyers (especially the Tyranid ones that have no form of Invuln save at all, and still cost more than every flyer that isn't a Storm Raven. Also, T5 4+ save is horrendously easy to kill with almost anything. A few forking Razorbacks with Heavy Bolters can pop them out of the skies with relative ease.

FMC's are superior to Flyers. Having an AV value is worse these days than having high Toughness and good saves. The problem with FMC's is that you need Grounding tests on them before you're hitting on anything but 6's (unless you bring your own Flyers). A couple of heavy bolters will do jack, you need either a quad gun, Flyer or a unit like Lootaz to pump out the dakka required. 6's are hard to reach for. 

 

Flyers can't assault, most can't Vector Strike (Heldrake excepted), FMC's also can benefit from cover more easily should they choose to Glide instead of Swoop (as they're still MC's effectively, so unlike vehicles they enjoy better cover saves on average). 

 

Crones and Harpies aren't the issue. Flyrants are a pain though, as are Chaos Daemon Princes (I7, yeah that's balanced, huehue). I guess my suggestion is a little extreme though, it does hurt the weaker FMC's quite hard. 

 

 

I'll revise and say instead, you need to inflict an unsaved wound to force a Grounding test. On a 1, you crash and take another wound, and you are Pinned. 

 

 

 

Now back to GKs, what's a good basis for a 1000pt army? I love using 10-man Interceptors with Psybolt ammo for kiting, and last-turn contesting is a plus.

 

Probably Terminators. In lower point games, Terminators are insanely potent. Once you hit 1.5k though, people have the AP2 tools to cause you serious problems. 

[Brovius]

 

 

 

Flyrants aren't that much of a problem anymore, mostly due to GW robbing them of Biomancy access. It still irks me that a Daemon Prince has a better statline than a Flyrant for a similar price, but also has an Invuln save.

 

Terminators is something I like using in low point games (My 500pt list has a unit of GKT with Psycannon in it), so that sounds like a plan.

[d715]

Space Monkeys hundreds of them

[Gentlemanloser]

Said in your best Michael Caine accent? ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Flyrants aren't that much of a problem anymore, mostly due to GW robbing them of Biomancy access. It still irks me that a Daemon Prince has a better statline than a Flyrant for a similar price, but also has an Invuln save.

Well they still have Catalyst, which is functionally better (two units with FNP instead of one). I still find them annoyingly effective. Agreed about DP's though, they are nightmare fuel. They almost always RIP AND TEAR half a squad down before I can do anything, and they eat DK's for lunch. 

 

 

Terminators is something I like using in low point games (My 500pt list has a unit of GKT with Psycannon in it), so that sounds like a plan.

 

Sounds good. I also like the incinerator on them, you can get swamped and it's very handy for thinning someone out before charging. 

 

 

Space Monkeys hundreds of them

 

One day, when I am immensely wealthy, I shall build a model-legal Dr Zaius list. I've posted here before

[monkeying about intensifies]

 

HQ:

 

Dr Zaius (Coteaz)

(100 points)

 

(4) Monkey Elders (Prescience Inquisitors, one Allied from Inquisition codex)

(55 points each)

 

Troops:

 

(5) 9 x Monkey Warriors (Jokaero)

(315 points each)

 

Heavy Support:

 

(2) Monkey Butler (Dreadknight w/greatsword+incinerator, teleporter)

(260 points each)

 

Fortifications:

 

Monkey Cage (Aegis Line w/Icarus lascannon)

(85 points)

 

Total: 2,500 points

 

 

Or alternatively, if you're a Space Monkey purist:

 

HQ:

 

Dr Zaius

(100 points)

 

Troops:

 

(6) 10 x Monkey Warriors

(350 points each)

 

8 x Monkey Warriors

(280 points)

 

Total: 2,480 points

[IK Viper]

I am having a hard time with my GK as well.  Everything we have is very expensive and we feel every loss.  I think to win GK need to dominate a section of the board and utterly crush everything in it in order to minimize return fire.  By the time you get done kitting out a squad you are spending 25 points a model on strike marines and like 45 on terminators.  our points per would are very high and it's almost impossible to win an attrition war with anyone becasue of this :-( 

 

I am seeing less and less Helldrakes these days so I run Stirkes over Terminator becasue they shoot better for the points and are more resiliant to low AP fire power if they are in cover.  The issue I always run into though is that I have so few units.  I almost always either take Henchman to add bodies or ally in to get more bodies.  I think pure GK don't have the model count to stand up to alot of the good armies out there right now. 

 

I have had some success with Land Raiders as they deliver units into CC which is a GK strength right now compared to what most people are running.  GK Strike Marines beat most any Tau/Eldar/Daemon unit they get a hold to in CC, with the obvious exception being Daemon Princes.  You can force weapon them of course but sometimes you have a hard time wounding, they have a 3++ save etc. so you can't count on always winning that.

 

Prescience + Psycannons also makes a descent Anti-Air unit.  A Purgation Squand with a Psycannon OMI and Prescience will get about 6-7 hits on a flier on average dice. 

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I am having a hard time with my GK as well.  Everything we have is very expensive and we feel every loss.  I think to win GK need to dominate a section of the board and utterly crush everything in it in order to minimize return fire.  By the time you get done kitting out a squad you are spending 25 points a model on strike marines and like 45 on terminators.  our points per would are very high and it's almost impossible to win an attrition war with anyone becasue of this :-( 

That's fine though, we're a low model count army and every loss should hurt. The problem arises from having underpriced/overpowered units like the Heldrake or Riptide take any skill out of killing us quickly. Attrition isn't out style, so camping doesn't work for us. That said, it's incredibly irritating to remove entire squads from the board to a single enemy unit every turn, with little chance of reprisal. I'm with you on that. 

 

I am seeing less and less Helldrakes these days so I run Stirkes over Terminator becasue they shoot better for the points and are more resiliant to low AP fire power if they are in cover.  The issue I always run into though is that I have so few units.  I almost always either take Henchman to add bodies or ally in to get more bodies.  I think pure GK don't have the model count to stand up to alot of the good armies out there right now. 

We never really did, even back with the 3rd edition book we supplemented our numbers with Stormtroopers. Pure Knights is sadly a dream these days. 

 

I have had some success with Land Raiders as they deliver units into CC which is a GK strength right now compared to what most people are running.  GK Strike Marines beat most any Tau/Eldar/Daemon unit they get a hold to in CC, with the obvious exception being Daemon Princes.  You can force weapon them of course but sometimes you have a hard time wounding, they have a 3++ save etc. so you can't count on always winning that.

I have a feeling when Imperial Knights start making a splash, you'll see more melta getting taken against you, thus making those Land Raiders scrap metal. I'd try doing the same thing but with Ravens. 

 

 

Prescience + Psycannons also makes a descent Anti-Air unit.  A Purgation Squand with a Psycannon OMI and Prescience will get about 6-7 hits on a flier on average dice. 

 

Your problem there is that most Flyers/FMC's out-range 24", so they can just stay out of range and not care. PsyDreads and Jokaero at least can pull them out of the sky from almost anywhere on the board. In all honesty if you fight Flyers regularly, a Quad Gun is basically mandatory. 

[IK Viper]

I don't worry to much about the Raiders getting hit with Melta, the only way people can get close enough is with Outflank (which I can plan for and out play) or DS, which a good Warp Quake will fix.  The Strikes can kill most versions of Melta before it gets close enough the double up.  I mostly fear the Ordinance blasts out there from Riptides, Manticores, etc.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

I don't worry to much about the Raiders getting hit with Melta, the only way people can get close enough is with Outflank (which I can plan for and out play) or DS, which a good Warp Quake will fix.  The Strikes can kill most versions of Melta before it gets close enough the double up.  I mostly fear the Ordinance blasts out there from Riptides, Manticores, etc.

Attack Bikes can still get into range before you can gun them down. Also, you're forgetting stuff like Fire Dragons hopping out of unkillable Serpents (yay, game balance!). 

 

The thing is though, you have to advance with LR's, they're an assault gunboat. That's why LRC's were so popular in 4th and even in 5th, because their guns suited the role (not to mention the huge transport capacity was also nice). Phobos-pattern trick you by having those lascannons, then you realise you could've had another squad to replace the one that sat in your DZ for half the game and died anyway (yay transport rules!). 

 

You're also now got FMC's zipping around who can't be shot down easily, and can on their turn choose to go into normal mode and tear your LR apart with impunity. Daemon Princes, Flyrants etc can and will turn AV14 to scrap, Smash is a thing. 

 

That's kinda why I keep telling people to take Ravens. Everything you want out of a Land Raider, a Raven does a thousand times better. GW even hint at it in the unit entry. 

[cyborgcommunist]

You could always go the full man-mode Barrage list.

 

Double FOC.

 

Coteaz, rolling on Divination with 4 squads of like 3-4 Crusaders.

 

Grandmaster. Buy the Orbital Strike Relay.

Fill up your now 6 Elite slots with Techmarines with Orbital Strike Relays. (You already know what's going down)

Get yourself 2 Stormravens, for maximum over-troll

 

Procure a large fur coat and a gold cane. Play this list and drop an average of 15 Large pie-plates a turn. 

Just use the crusaders to tank the shots and the Stormravens just fly around doing their shenanigans.

I have proxy'ed this for fun a few times and I'm willing to actually build the models for this list, just for the expression on my opponents face when they realize what's gonna happen. 

[Gentlemanloser]

No Karamazov?

 

Hmmm.  This has me thinking on 'unique'.  Over to the OR! :P

[cyborgcommunist]

Oh, you could run Karamazov with the Crusaders and drop the Lance template on them. 

 

I just take Coteaz so I can spam the warbands to fill out the troops choices. Not like it matters, the Barrage list is all about pimpin'

[Arglist]

Just run Coteaz total cheese.........take Inq squads of 2 psykers and 2 Accolytes with meltas...place them in rhinos(or 1-2 razorbacks)......oh like 5 or 6 of these squads...they are also worth 3 psyk dice each squad.......then to form Coteaz squad ...3 psykers(looking to get invisiblity on the rolls) 4-5 death cult assasins and 4 crusaders (the h2h frontline)...place them in a decked out crusiader ......then 1-2 DKs with teleporters..and 0-2 Dreads with all armor punch....2 squds purfiers in a rhino with 2 psycannons(2 can fire out the top of a rhino)....now take a DK Lib with sheild generator and a squad of scouts to be his meat sheild......oh look the sheild is a 3+ if you cast sanctuary.......with the 18+ psy-dice you start with.....It is more like an Iron collum Inquisitor army with a slpash of GK and DK but it is a very solid build  here is an example at 1500 points with 19 psydice and a 4-3++ save army wide Corteaz and the Assasin Sqaud go in the Land Raider. and make a tank wall or u shape or even circle around the DK lib. also your deny rolls will be 4-5+ when they target you.

 

Grey Knights (1491/1500pt.)
http://hq-builder.com/shared/78607


@HQ [ 1 ]

Inquisitor Coteaz (100pt.) Artificer armour; Bolt pistol; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Master-crafted Nemesis Daemon hammer; Psyber-eagle;

@Elites [ 2 ]

5x - Purifier squad (224pt.)
> 1x - Knight of the Flame (24pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Storm bolter; Nemesis force sword;
> 2x - Purifier (26pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Storm bolter; Nemesis force halberd;
> 2x - Purifier (34pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Psycannon;
> 1x - Razorback (80pt.); Smoke launchers; Lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun;

5x - Purifier squad (224pt.)
> 1x - Knight of the Flame (24pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Storm bolter; Nemesis force sword;
> 2x - Purifier (26pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Storm bolter; Nemesis force halberd;
> 2x - Purifier (34pt.); Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Psyk-out grenades; Psycannon;
> 1x - Razorback (80pt.); Smoke launchers; Lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun;

@Troops [ 5 ]

4x - Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (98pt.)
> 2x - Warrior Acolyte (14pt.); Meltagun; Chainsword; Flak armour;
> 2x - Psyker (10pt.); Flak armour; Laspistol;
> 1x - Razorback (50pt.); Smoke launchers; Twin-linked heavy bolter; Psybolt ammunition;

3x - Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (84pt.)
> 1x - Warrior Acolyte (14pt.); Meltagun; Chainsword; Flak armour;
> 2x - Psyker (10pt.); Flak armour; Laspistol;
> 1x - Razorback (50pt.); Smoke launchers; Twin-linked heavy bolter; Psybolt ammunition;

3x - Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (78pt.)
> 2x - Warrior Acolyte (14pt.); Meltagun; Chainsword; Flak armour;
> 1x - Psyker (10pt.); Flak armour; Laspistol;
> 1x - Rhino (40pt.); Storm bolter; Smoke launchers;

3x - Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (78pt.)
> 2x - Warrior Acolyte (14pt.); Meltagun; Chainsword; Flak armour;
> 1x - Psyker (10pt.); Flak armour; Laspistol;
> 1x - Rhino (40pt.); Storm bolter; Smoke launchers;

12x - Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband (170pt.)
> 4x - Crusader (15pt.); Flak armour; Power weapon; Storm shield;
> 6x - Death Cult Assassin (15pt.); Flak armour; Power weapon (x2);
> 2x - Psyker (10pt.); Flak armour; Laspistol;

@Heavy support [ 1 ]

Land Raider Crusader (270pt.) Twin-linked assault cannon; Hurricane bolter (x2); Smoke launchers; Frag Assault Launcher; Psybolt ammunition; Multi-melta;

@Secondary Detachment [ 1 ]

@HQ [ 1 ]

Librarian (95pt.) Psychic hood; Power armour; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Force weapon; Bolt pistol; Power field generator; Mastery Level 1;

@Troops [ 1 ]

5x - Scout Squad (70pt.) Camo cloaks;
> 1x - Scout Sergeant (12pt.); Power armor; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Boltgun; Bolt pistol;
> 4x - Scout (12pt.); Scout armor; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Bolt pistol; Combat knife;

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