Cactus Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 ... and Grey Knights. They get a fair bit of branded gear as well. I'll take your word for that. I only ever see Grey Knights components in Dark Angel conversions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thank you Isiah.. I forget about them because they arent 'Spase Mahreens' Unofficial count of specific boxes as done by me, just for fun because I wonder about these things. Throwing out single figs and the FoR. (gets iffy with all the entourage for =I=)GK: 3 kits - Termies, PA and DreadknightBA: 4 kits - Sang guard, Death Company, Furioso, BaalSW: 5 kits - WG termies, Bjorn, Wolf Pack (Grey hunters and Blood Claws) Thunderwolves, Fenrisian WolvesDA: 7 kits - DW Knights, RWBK, Co Vets box, Super Speeder, Neph/DT, RW battleforce. And the Dark Vengeance box with three specific squadsC:SM: kits and assorted blisters - 2 BT boxes, 2 LotD boxes 1 UM box, 1 WS blister. Assorted shoulder pad blisters.Really there is no comparison. Our rules may be perceived as sub-par but we will look good doing it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I used to kind of hate the Chaos codex, but that was really more me hearing other people pointing out it's flaws (over and over and over again). I do think it's derpy as heck that my Red Corsairs HAVE to challenge, and I HAVE to take Aspiring Champions so I don't get to save points and duck out of that stupid rule. When my terminators aren't killing the Wraithlord because the Team Leader has dillusions of Grandeur and thinks he's a Black Templar...there's a problem. My World Eaters? Pfft, they're :cussing psychotic, and it's completely in their character. In editions past they'd hack a empty drop pod because it landed next to them, of course an aspiring champion of Khorne would yell "COME AT ME BRO!" at the Hive Tyrant because they're orks in power armor and that's just how they roll. I've sometimes taken barebones champions and then "jumping" them off of buildings or putting them at the front of the team. "Ooops, oh well he's dead, guess I'll get to attack the wraith lord with all of my unit's attacks with Furious Charge and all" Seriously, the only way they could have screwed that up more is if one character became a new Aspiring Champion at the death of the old one. At least there's a way out LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I know this is gonna sound stupid, but despite everything thats wrong with the dark angels codex i will always use it, even though bits are not that well thought out it's my codex and i will always use it and make the best of a bad situations let the other marines have storm talon hawk bears, i have already won two out three matches with it. if the gun don't fire beat them to death with it :P, but i know you guys don't like it but it could be worse we could be .....rainbow marines :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 you could do that cheaper with codex inq though 45 points I think it is? More than that. 63 points for a level 1 Inquisitor with DA Librarian gear + psyk-out grenades, but has no psychic hood. The Inquisitor has +1 W and Att, but -1 WS, Str, and T. He is Stubborn, while the DA Librarian is Fearless. The Inquisitor can only have either Psychic Communion (+/- 1 to Reserve rolls) or Hammerhand (+1 to base Str score, before modifiers for things like powerfists), while the DA Librarian has access to 24 different powers, 4 of which he has the option to choose (i.e. the Primaris powers, which are all pretty good), and 4 more of which he can make use of if he is a Level 2 psyker. But, why would I use Aliies, let alone an Inquisitor??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro X Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I know that the DA librarian is better then the lvl 1 inquistor. Iran a list last week with 30 snipers plus other things and had a lvl 2 div librarian and 2 lvl 1 inq and they did really well. Its not all about replacing our pyskers, its about having a great number of them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would rather take a vanilla Librarian instead, perhaps giving him a Chapter Tactics that would suit one of the other Unforgiven Chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Brother dean, don't forget to throw in 6th edition starter box to that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thank you Isiah.. I forget about them because they arent "Spase Mahreens" Unofficial count of specific boxes as done by me, just for fun because I wonder about these things. Throwing out single figs and the FoR. (gets iffy with all the entourage for =I=) GK: 3 kits Termies, PA and Dreadknight BA: 4 kits Sang guard, Death Company, Furioso, Baal SW: 5 kits WG termies, Bjorn, Wolf Pack (Grey hunters and Blood Claws) Thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves DA: 6 kits, DW Knights, RWBK, Co Vets box, Super Speeder, Neph/DT, RW battleforce C:SM, 5 kits and assorted blisters, 2 BT boxes, 2 LotD boxes 1 UM box, 1 WS blister Assorted shoulder pad blisters... Really there is no comparison. Our rules may be perceived as sub-par but we will look good doing it.... It's worth pointing out that GK, BA and SW have yet to have a 6th ed codex so will no doubt have similar (if not more) kits than DA by the end of the edition cycle. I was a Deathwing player. I love the Terminator model, the Plains People fluff (never liked the Fallen thing) and the fun I had on the tabletop with them. Sadly though, the 6th ed rules in combo with a lacklustre 6th ed DA codex first put them on the shelf, then into the Fairy Power spray to have them fold into my BA army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 It's worth pointing out that GK, BA and SW have yet to have a 6th ed codex so will no doubt have similar (if not more) kits than DA by the end of the edition cycle. I was a Deathwing player. I love the Terminator model, the Plains People fluff (never liked the Fallen thing) and the fun I had on the tabletop with them. Sadly though, the 6th ed rules in combo with a lacklustre 6th ed DA codex first put them on the shelf, then into the Fairy Power spray to have them fold into my BA army. That's a good point, for a short while we thought we were pretty special that our tacticals were slightly cheaper compared to the previous C:SM book but now they've been brought more in line with each other. Don't forget they also brought Asmodai back with this book, and how well do you think he sold? I don't know if we've ever even seen a potential list on these boards in who knows how long. I'd also point out that the all 4 of those BA kits are used pretty extensively by our sanguine counterparts. In fact every one of those kits that Brother Dean mentioned is pretty much accepted as awesome units for each codex. They may be highly debated by people who play against them (Dreadknight), but they don't draw nearly the same amount of debate among their codex's players like DA players have with our kits. The only kit that I'd say is universally accepted by players of our codex are Black Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Brother dean, don't forget to throw in 6th edition starter box to that list. Thanks Jeff... Thank you Isiah.. I forget about them because they arent "Spase Mahreens" Unofficial count of specific boxes as done by me, just for fun because I wonder about these things. Throwing out single figs and the FoR. (gets iffy with all the entourage for =I=) GK: 3 kits Termies, PA and Dreadknight BA: 4 kits Sang guard, Death Company, Furioso, Baal SW: 5 kits WG termies, Bjorn, Wolf Pack (Grey hunters and Blood Claws) Thunderwolves, Fenrisian Wolves DA: 6 kits, DW Knights, RWBK, Co Vets box, Super Speeder, Neph/DT, RW battleforce C:SM, 5 kits and assorted blisters, 2 BT boxes, 2 LotD boxes 1 UM box, 1 WS blister Assorted shoulder pad blisters... Really there is no comparison. Our rules may be perceived as sub-par but we will look good doing it.... It's worth pointing out that GK, BA and SW have yet to have a 6th ed codex so will no doubt have similar (if not more) kits than DA by the end of the edition cycle. I was a Deathwing player. I love the Terminator model, the Plains People fluff (never liked the Fallen thing) and the fun I had on the tabletop with them. Sadly though, the 6th ed rules in combo with a lacklustre 6th ed DA codex first put them on the shelf, then into the Fairy Power spray to have them fold into my BA army. Well, the wolves have always been the gold standard. I expect them to get a flyer (Cause it is only teleport things they prefer to avoid. Go read Battle of the Fang. Scouts have the mindset to fly...) and at least one more kit... And the flyer will make Dragons seem tame..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Can't wait to see the flying werewolves...flying monstrous creatures that come in a unit of 3-5 at S/T6 with three wounds and four rending attacks each (so three smashes on the charge) :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Careful what you wish for march10k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Well we did get "Lion Cav"... Kinda... Trade one attack for TL plasma... I'd also point out that the all 4 of those BA kits are used pretty extensively by our sanguine counterparts. In fact every one of those kits that Brother Dean mentioned is pretty much accepted as awesome units for each codex. They may be highly debated by people who play against them (Dreadknight), but they don't draw nearly the same amount of debate among their codex's players like DA players have with our kits. The only kit that I'd say is universally accepted by players of our codex are Black Knights. And is it an internal thing? Are we so used to being crapped on that we see even new and "Uber" units as overcosted? (Most DA do see the DWK as useful they just pass them up for scoring units) Thunderwolf Cav is very expensive for what it does. The wolfpacks are just useless. Do you see wolves whinging about it? No, the just get on with slaughtering the enemies of the Emperor... (and whinging about fliers...) I really just think that the LSV was designed before Gets Hot causes a glance, take that away and it isnt horrible. Likewise the Neph is only a bad flyer in relation to the dragon.... I was going to build a 1ksons army to further annoy my Wolfbrother but Chaos just isnt as viable as our book is and that is my benchmark. I can win with our book and there are books that I cannot win with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 One week and 4 pages later we still know what we've always known. There are those happy with DA Codex, there are those who are not happy and there are those that never will be happy unless they get nothing short of marines riding on unicorns and firing D-weapons. I'm in the first group, I understand why second group is not happy and I pitty the third group because they will never have fun. Such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 I just think that all of those kits you mentioned are widely accepted as good units by their individual codex communities -- and how many years later? I wasn't around for the introduction of those kits but I don't see them in my shop really debating their merits (BA and Wolves alike). I don't want to get too far into what specific units do or don't do (to keep it on the topic of us ya know?) but the thunderwolf cav are pretty much THE fast attack unit for SW, it's not like us debating the merits of a vindicator vs a predator vs a landspeeder vengeance. I merely take all of this debate over our new kits as a sign that maybe GW had missed the mark a little bit. As Varizel had said a few posts back, it's a matter of missed opportunities than outright failure of conceived units. The old "their heart was in the right place". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Every army has units not worth paying for or that just don't fit in to the available slots. For example the Tau fliers. The Tau FA slot is too valuable for mediocre fliers considering they're competing with Pathfinders, Piranhas, etc. If anyone asks on a Tau page which flier to use, the answer is always the Barricuda, because it provides something that isn't as readily available to the rest of the army (The fliers being extremely redundant). You can find these units in every codex like the wolf packs, or Sentinels etc. I think the main problem with the DA codex was that it and CSM were the first PA books in 6th and were basically a testing ground for Space Marines and the changes will probably carry over to SW and BA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 One week and 4 pages later we still know what we've always known. There are those happy with DA Codex, there are those who are not happy and there are those that never will be happy unless they get nothing short of marines riding on unicorns and firing D-weapons. I'm in the first group, I understand why second group is not happy and I pitty the third group because they will never have fun. Such is life.I am in the Second Group... I like DA codex partially...I think codex has potential but it was rushed... Some units are crap... And its weird considering they come from the new kits... I am not Angry cause we are testbed For Vanilla codex but cause we are again, two Times in a row... This is a bit much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The problem this time around isn't that the DA codex was a test - there's no one shot CMLs or 4++ (in Assault only) Storm Shields and points are standard across similar units in the DA and SM codexes. GW look to be trying to keep things the same across the Marine codexes, which is a good thing. The problem with the DA codex (and the CSM codex) is that it got a conservative update to a minimally designed 4th ed codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 The problem this time around isn't that the DA codex was a test - there's no one shot CMLs or 4++ (in Assault only) Storm Shields and points are standard across similar units in the DA and SM codexes. GW look to be trying to keep things the same across the Marine codexes, which is a good thing. The problem with the DA codex (and the CSM codex) is that it got a conservative update to a minimally designed 4th ed codex. Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, or that it was a conscious decision, if it was I'd just be curious as to why. That's more for my interest in game/rules design than for complaint purposes. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Conservative? Vetok: "DUDE! I am done writing up one of the new Dark Angels units!" Cruddach: "What are they called?" Vetok: "Deathwing Knights!" Cruddach: "Huh. So, what makes them special compared to Deathwing Terminators?" Vetok: "They're FREAKING AWESOME, that's what! Up to ten models in the unit, and all of them have terminator armor and storm shields. They also have a new rat-@#%! smasher called a 'mace of absolution', which is a power maul that is AP 3 against things from Codex: Chaos Space Marines. The unit leader's weapon is called the Flail of the Unforgiven though, and it is an AP 3 power maul, which become AP 2 against anything from Codex: Chaos Space Marines." Cruddach: "Hmmm. Sounds like they will no doubt be bashing some Fallen heads in, and then some." Vetok: "You bet they will! They can also do 'this shield' wall thing which makes them all Toughness 5, if they are are in the right formation. They also get Hammer of Wrath from bashing people in the FACE with their shields, and every unit member can do Precision Strikes too!" Cruddach: "Sounds pretty brutal, but at least they don't have any shooting weapons." Vetok: "No, they don't, but that's not all they can do. Once per game ,they can up-charge their maces of absolution to become Str 10 AP 2, AP 1 against things from Codex: Chaos Space Marines! On the charge, that's four Str 6 AP 3 attacks from the unit leader, and TWENTY-SEVEN STRENGTH 10, AP2 ATTACKS FROM THE REST OF THEM! BAM!!! IN YOUR FACE!!!! Freakin' awesome, right?" Cruddach: "Wow. Just...wow." Ward: "Aaaaaaaah! The Rules Messiah! He has come! Wait a minute. *Once* per game? False Alarm. Everyone back to your desks. No 'Rules Messiah' here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... And the SS For command squads is not the only thing...Champion upgrade For DA and SM is the same even if the BoC is inferior to a standard PW... Scouts are 1 point cheaper... And so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... And the SS For command squads is not the only thing...Champion upgrade For DA and SM is the same even if the BoC is inferior to a standard PW... Scouts are 1 point cheaper... And so on... Yeah but they pay for their sniper rifles, idk it's just odd, where some things are so similar and others are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... And the SS For command squads is not the only thing...Champion upgrade For DA and SM is the same even if the BoC is inferior to a standard PW... Scouts are 1 point cheaper... And so on... Yeah but they pay for their sniper rifles, idk it's just odd, where some things are so similar and others are different. Yes but they cost less if we both equip them with shotguns and they can have LSS and teleport Homer Too...And not to forget we pay 10 points more 2nd Level on the Librarian... Dont tell me cause of divination cause he costs more even if i choose thelepaty and pyromancy... Not ti mention that we dont have a FOC shifting generic IC and that we cannot use DW and RW as troops if we are in an allied detachment (all other armies can do these tricks)... I guess that during DA codex Vetock spent Too much time at Bugman's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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