Komrk Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... And the SS For command squads is not the only thing...Champion upgrade For DA and SM is the same even if the BoC is inferior to a standard PW... Scouts are 1 point cheaper... And so on... Yeah but they pay for their sniper rifles, idk it's just odd, where some things are so similar and others are different. Yes but they cost less if we both equip them with shotguns and they can have LSS and teleport Homer Too...And not to forget we pay 10 points more 2nd Level on the Librarian... Dont tell me cause of divination cause he costs more even if i choose thelepaty and pyromancy... Not ti mention that we dont have a FOC shifting generic IC and that we cannot use DW and RW as troops if we are in an allied detachment (all other armies can do these tricks)... I guess that during DA codex Vetock spent Too much time at Bugman's... Who can still use shifted FOC when they're the allied force? I thought that didn't work for anyone? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3598189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 SM captains turn bikes into troops wether they are primary or allied detachment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3598205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So judging by this post i should of just purchased the space marine codex and just the dark angels colour scheme? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3601363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 So judging by this post i should of just purchased the space marine codex and just the dark angels colour scheme? Nope. Threads like this always end up focussing on the unfavourable comparisons. We have fearless HQs, superior terminators, excellent elite bikes, the Sacred Standards (two out of three ain't bad), power field generators and stubborn marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3601440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So judging by this post i should of just purchased the space marine codex and just the dark angels colour scheme? I'm sorry if I seem blunt, but if you are swayed by the negative and can't see the value in all the positive things stated, then yes, thats what you should have done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3601906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 So judging by this post i should of just purchased the space marine codex and just the dark angels colour scheme? No. Dark Angels Bike forces are better than White Scars bike forces, namely because of a RW Command Squad and the Standard of Devastation (4 twin-linked bolter shots *per bike* for every *unit* within 6"). Combine that with another RW Command Squad with the Standard of Fortitude (Feel No Pain for every *unit* within 12") and a Dark Shroud lurking around giving a bunch of them Stealth (every *unit* within 6" gets this) make for a force which is very offensive, but exceptionally defensive as well. Tons of fire power at any range, can beat the enemy's face in with claw hammers in melee (with base 2 Attack models), good covers saves, and Feel No Pain. White Scars can get...graviton guns, and various standards that do not do what these Dark Angels standards do. Dark Angels can do the whole Mongol thing much better than those who are supposed to do it the best, and then some. The White Scars will have a few more models, but their offensive/defensive capabilities do not match those of the Ravenwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3601913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 No. Dark Angels Bike forces are better than White Scars bike forces, namely because of a RW Command Squad and the Standard of Devastation (4 twin-linked bolter shots *per bike* for every *unit* within 6"). Combine that with another RW Command Squad with the Standard of Fortitude (Feel No Pain for every *unit* within 12") Can't do that. One Sacred Standard per army. Says it right in the Wargear list on pg 91. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3601981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Actually while looking something else up last night in the C:SM codex, I noticed their command squad can buy storm shields 10points cheaper than we can. I just wonder whether those decisions by the rules teams are made without even realizing what they did in C:DA, This, There are so many comparable facts in the past (random example : LR transport capacity and DP transport capacity ) that it is obvious... And the SS For command squads is not the only thing...Champion upgrade For DA and SM is the same even if the BoC is inferior to a standard PW... Scouts are 1 point cheaper... And so on... BUT BUT BUT..... the SM champion has to take or dish out challenge? SURELY that offsets the fact we had to take Blade of Caliban on our champion? I mean the fact that NOBODY takes champion of any sort can't deny that our champion is the superior champion, lolz . The kind of superior champion that was can shove his job back to his boss. What was that? Daemon Prince SmashAlot challenged me? PFFFTTT talk to my boss f00, he'll take care of you. Honestly though, the army, hamstrung as it is compared to our SM brethrens to some people, does stand head to head with SM i think. The army is fine seriously, but the 10 pts discount on libby does grind your teeth though, and no gravgun. And we're supposed to hoarding all those ancient tech stuffs? They could at least add that on FAQs only for ravenwings, tacts, and HQs. Well no matter, my awesome plasma/melta of any kind still does the job. All good for now. It would be REALLY nice though for the gravgun addition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I don't miss the grav gun. From a fluff point of view a very clunky sudden addition to the setting. The holy quartet:bolter, flamer, melta, and plasma have been good enough since 2nd Ed. They're enough for me now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varizel Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Honestly Aegnor, the only good grav guns are only on bikes or on cents. There are situational uses for said gun where it outshine plasma/melta (as in shooting land raiders), but as i said, awesome plasma/melta suffices for now. It gets the job done. For completion though -- after all, the new kit for Tacts does come with grav gun-- it would be nice to have them. Surely you won't say no for more options rite ? But i'm not in the slightest, think that GW will do such sensible things. After all looking at their track record, it takes FOREVER for them to give us even Storm Shield 3++ on last edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 We will likely get grav guns next time around. Can't do that. One Sacred Standard per army. Says it right in the Wargear list on pg 91. Forgot that. There is a use for the Apothecaries in the RWCS's after all then, and one can also still have the RW Company Banner (and for 10 less less overall). The auto-pass Hit & Run bit is rather good for a force with the option to take more than just two squads that would want to get into close combat. Lacking such a banner, White Scars will be locked up 1-in-3 times and rendered only as effective as Tactical marines in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggabertha Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 So judging by this post i should of just purchased the space marine codex and just the dark angels colour scheme? Depending on your point of view, going for a "Win At All Cost" (WAAC) Codex is either good or bad - not much of a "shades of grey" inbetween (as expected of The First, really...) Having said that... the new Space Marine Codex has lots of both shiny toys and refinement that again, The First has had to endure in order for the general "masses" to feel empowered. At the end of the day, our Codex is still unique - it's objectively weaker due to either having limited options on all fronts or costs more to fill out an army (both monetary cost and points). Personally though, having imitation Dark Angels but using the Space Marine Codex Rules is fine if your opponent is okay with it. However... The real deciding factor pretty much boils down to this: How committed are you, to The First? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 White Scars might be a bike army, but Ravenwing are THE bike armySpace Wolves might have a terminator army, but Deathwing are THE terminator army* I'll take company vets over sternguard. I'll take the Nephilim over a Storm Talon. I'll take Asmodai over Cassius. It's good to be Unforgiven.*Grey Knights don't count**. They are only space marines in that they wear power armour and use bolters. **My own view Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3602958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I guess it's up to the individual to decide how they run their army. Nothing wrong with DA models and C:SM rules that I can see. But ... we will be watching you :<_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 White Scars might be a bike army, but Ravenwing are THE bike army Space Wolves might have a terminator army, but Deathwing are THE terminator army* I'll take company vets over sternguard. I'll take the Nephilim over a Storm Talon. I'll take Asmodai over Cassius. It's good to be Unforgiven. *Grey Knights don't count**. They are only space marines in that they wear power armour and use bolters. **My own view Really, Asmodai over Cassius? That's a first! Someone's really drinking the calibanite kool-aid hahah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I would take Asmodai over Cassius on fluff alone, without even having to think about rules. There's a quote from Cassius, in their fifth edition codex at least, that goes, "The blasphemy of the Tyranids is such that only one solution is acceptable. Extermination. There can only be two sides in such a fight - choose carefully, lest you and I find ourselves on different sides." Really Cassius, really? Whoops, didn't think about it hard enough, I accidentally chose the side of the ravenous, flesh eating bug-lizards that wants to wipe out my entire species! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CovertToaster Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'll take company vets over sternguard. I'll take the Nephilim over a Storm Talon. I'll take Asmodai over Cassius. I wouldn't. I'd play vets because we don't have sternguard but only because nothing else filled that niche otherwise I wouldn't play the rest at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'll take company vets over sternguard. I have to ask, what do Company Veterans offer over Sternguard Veterans? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I see company vets as as a unit full of potential. We have Terminator squads that can mix'n'match ranged and assault, as can our veterans. While Company Vets might be not as amazing at one thing as their specialist cousins, they are still a decent unit. Does anybody complain about Wolf Guard not being sternguard/vanguard? I used to run them a lot and I have to say I don't know why people don't like them. So they don't have jump packs and special ammo? They can be geared up pretty nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disruptor_fe404 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Ah, right. Forgot that they can mix their stuff like power armoured Wolf Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Company veterans also have the plus of being like 5 points cheaper than sternguard because they don't have special ammo. When sternguard replace their bolter with another (non combi) weapon they lose out on the special ammo they paid for as well, a problem veterans don't have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The problem about CoVets is that they can mix weapons but For CC Version you need a LR to get them safe into melee cause they dont have access to JP... If you made them mainly shooting they have just combo weapons with just 1 special weapon For 5 men and no access to heavy flamers... So after having used the melta/plasma/flamer part of the combiweapons they are stuck with Simple bolters without the aid of special ammo... CSM chosen have the bolter,Bolt pistol, chainsword combo that can male them good at shooting and good at CC while the CoVets must choose between bolter and Bolt pistol and chainsword... CoVets are basically the old vets from 3rd/4th Edition C:SM making the jack of all trades in paper but just a suicidal Unit in Real game... If you want to boost their chances to survive you need to attach them a IC with a PFG but if you do this you are stuck to 9 of them in a transport leaving out the Second special weapon... They could have a Great potenti al if they had access to JP and to bolter/pistol/chainsword combo... I imagine them with JP and combiweapons jumping out from cover and roasting a threat being able to charge in CC Too making good use of the Second CC weapon... But now Command squads are better cause they can have up to 5 special weapons and access to Apithecary For FNP increasing their chances to survive without the need of a babysitting IC with PFG... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Avoghai Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Concerning the CoVets, rather to consider what they don't have (because they don't have lots of things... For example : shuriken catapult or marker light :P ), I prefer considering what they have. They have access to lots of shooting weapon AND they have 2A. On another topic we discuss about the assault squad and their lack of special weapons. Here we have models with as much A, the possibility to have a drop pod AND lots of special weapons... It's just an assault squad deluxe edition. Once their weapons are used they'll have the same impact in CC as an assault squad Jump pack is not a solution : nobody plays vanguards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes but JP with special or combiweapons would be brilliant... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3603810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I'll stick to my combimeltas in a pod first turn with aDW squad dwa 2nd turn. Mobile castle firebase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286764-we-missed-our-birthday-warning-bit-of-a-rant-ahead/page/5/#findComment-3604280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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