Blood Angels Assault Squads

[thebymster]

I would (do) put DC in Raven, run dread as DC dread. Zoom on, turn 2- usually have to Evade shots, then turn to skimmer, drop of cargo in faces of troops. Dread H Flame em first, then blood tallons till they all gone! Troops with chaplain at least to get the re rolls.

Mephiston puts fear into everyone except termis, stay away from them! And keep cover from centurions!

Deep strike 10 jump troops with 2 melta guns, Sgt gunslinger with 2 inf pist- attach a SanPriest with fist for FnP and big punches!

Then your half way to a winning list!

What ever you play, Play it again and again, learn HOW to use it!

[Butters]

Sorry I ment they have the scout special rule and Stealth which is still not as good but still a great thing and they also re-role all failed to wound rolls caused by the Hammer of Wrath Hits.  So turn two your getting, with three ten man assault squads Stealthed (not including Shrikes), 40 attacks per squad.  AND those can be at AP5 because of the pistol.  Shrike with a squad or Vangaurd squad would wreck, plus they would get 50 attacks on the charge.   I think that other than deepstriking a Land Raider the Raven Guard win hands down at everything.  Lets hope the new Blood ANgels Codex lets them assault out of deep strike or something special like that. 

[Kanis]

For me personally using another codex or even allies to supplement my Angels is just out of the question; and, though that probably hurts me I want to win and stand with my own. The White Dwarf codex proved we can be behind and still be strong through force of will and tactics. We may be less points efficient but I don't think we need to use the vanilla marines as a band-aid just yet, but it's just my view on it. 

[Red Fury]

No dude. Jump infantry do not get the stealth or scout bonuses. Pistol ap does nothing in close combat. Charge distance is the same.

Always getting the HoW attacks (with rerolls to wound) and charging rerolls is nice. But take a priest and we attack with S5 and have 5+ fnp. Make a red thirst roll and gain fearless too. Not to forget our jumpers are wielding melta guns too. I think the ba attributes are as good if not better.

[Butters]

how do pistols not get the AP in close combat? they are listed as close combat weapons if I recall. And why dont they get the stealth and scout.  its says in the codex ALL units from this detachment gain..... and we were not talking about charge distance.  Ravens get to use the jump pack in movement (12") and Assault (max 12") so On a great role they get 24" assault range with 10 pistol shots in the middle.  Thats now 50 attacks from one sqaud.  That beats most tyrannid.

[Quixus]

how do pistols not get the AP in close combat? they are listed as close combat weapons if I recall.

They use their weapons profile at range and they count as close combat weapons in melee. regular close combat weapons have the stats: I User, S user, AP -.

[Butters]

ah ok so its basically like bashing someone in the face with the pistol lol makes sense

[Red Fury]

It says bulky or very bulky units do not get it. Jump infantry are bulky.

 

Pistols, it's on page 51 or 52.

 

Blood angels also get a 12" move and a possible 12" charge. Ravens just get the reroll if they totally wiff the charge roll.

 

Blood Angels put out the exact same number of attacks with HoW. Or just a few less without. But the 30 real close combat attacks can get furious charge for a +1S bonus. Yes it requires a priest, for an extra cost. (unless you get lucky with the thirst roll)

 

I'm not saying the ravens trait is bad, but that you've been misreading it.

It could be very good with a infantry heavy list, multiple devastator squads and tac squads getting to reposition and stealth saves for a round isn't bad.

 

And to be honest, assault squads are pretty terrible at assault. It's the other things they can do, like deep strike in melta guns behind armor and make fast moves to grab the relic/objectives.

[Butters]

Ah you are correct sir.  So their big bonus is a garunteed HoW, cheaper, and reroll.  Less than what I had orginially anticipated. Seeing as how they can still deepstrike and take melta's I feel they still do the job better at a cheaper cost. Throw in that deepstriking landraider however and they are beat

[Quixus]

Why would you want to deep strike a land raider? If the vehicle scatters a lonely grot can destroy it and its cargo.

[Red Fury]

Codex Space Marines cannot take melta guns.  They can take only flamers or plasma pistols, sarg can get a grav or plasma pistol.  They also have to pay points to upgrade the Sergeant to a Vet for 10 points.

 

BA sergeant are already upgraded.  BA assault squads are scoring and are a troop choice, not a fast attack.  In addition to the flamer/ppistol,  BA can take melta and plasma guns as well as infernus and flamer pistols.

 

If you upgrade the vanilla sarg, then BA cost 5 points more for a 5 man squad or 10 points more for a 10 man squad. 

 

If you really want to wreck face, take some Death Company with a couple of axes.

 

[Butters]

Why would you want to deep strike a land raider? If the vehicle scatters a lonely grot can destroy it and its cargo.

Because some people dont play lots of terrain so its a HUGE threat turn one.  This allows you to move other things into range and set up.  You dont have to take a squad inside the Land Raider but itd be an added bonus if you did. 

[Quixus]

Because some people dont play lots of terrain so its a HUGE threat turn one.

You cannot deep strike on turn 1. Deep Striking is a form of deploying from reserve.

[Leonaides]

I've got to say it.. butters, go and reread the codecii again. Dont assume, and cross-check with a rulebook, not just 'some guy on the internet said........'

 

you may get better game results by playing with the right rules rather than gimping yourself at every step.

[Bartali]

Sorry I ment they have the scout special rule and Stealth which is still not as good but still a great thing and they also re-role all failed to wound rolls caused by the Hammer of Wrath Hits.  So turn two your getting, with three ten man assault squads Stealthed (not including Shrikes), 40 attacks per squad.  AND those can be at AP5 because of the pistol.  Shrike with a squad or Vangaurd squad would wreck, plus they would get 50 attacks on the charge.   I think that other than deepstriking a Land Raider the Raven Guard win hands down at everything.  Lets hope the new Blood ANgels Codex lets them assault out of deep strike or something special like that. 

 

It doesn't really matter who's better out of BA or RG jumpers - they're both not very good.

[Butters]

Yeah sorry I ment turn two.  Think about it. Turn one you get set up and then turn 2 BOOM middle of your army (hopefully) an angry land raider pops up.  It changes the your board presence so much that they have to think pretty much soley about the Land Raider.  Its not exactly somthing you can say ehhhh I'll leave it for turn 3 or 4.  Because by then it has disgorged a squad of something nasty.

[Red Fury]

Deepstriking a Landraider is a bad gamble.  The thing is you have to roll for it to even arrive on turn 2.  Then you have to roll for deepstrike.  What if it mishaps?  It's a HUGE model, if it scatters it will easily clip something to force a mishap.  But even if it goes all ok, the squad inside still has to wait a turn before they can assault (can't assault the same turn you arrive from deepstrike except our Vanguard Vets).  Turn 3 charge at the earliest.

 

In comparison, start it on the board at the edge of your deployment 12" in.  The board is 48" across, you start 12" in, turn 1 you move 12" then flat out another 6".  You have to weather one round of shooting but it's AV14 and you have smoke!  Then turn 2 move another 6", disembark troops out another 6", then charge 2-12" average 7".  That's a total of 49"!  So you can cross the board and get into combat by the end of turn 2.

 

You can't do that if you deepstrike, and worse what if it doesn't even show up until turn 3 or 4?  Possible charge on turn 5....great.  

[Quozzo]

Seeing your opponent panic when you drop a couple of flamestorm wielding Land Raiders in his deployment zone is worth the risk.

[knife&fork]

You can also declare a tank shock when arriving from reserves to lessen the dangers of mishaps.

[Deadman Wade]

Sorry, if this was discussed somewhere, but does Inquisitor's servo-skull further reduce scatter distance? DoA already makes BA jump pack units quite precise at deep striking, but assault squads arriving without scatter at all would be even great.

[Quixus]

You can also declare a tank shock when arriving from reserves to lessen the dangers of mishaps.

Huh? Don't you have to be on the board for tank shock? Once the Land Raider is on the board any chances for mishaps have already happened.

[knife&fork]

 

You can also declare a tank shock when arriving from reserves to lessen the dangers of mishaps.

Huh? Don't you have to be on the board for tank shock? Once the Land Raider is on the board any chances for mishaps have already happened.

 

 

Nope, you are allowed to tank shock from reserves and random movement (like scatter) doesn't disallow it either.  Tank shocks from deep strike is a bit sketchy (probably not RAI) but RAW it's ok and will only be possible with BA land raiders or Dark Eldar raiders with shock prows.

 

Since any normal model has to move 1" away they can't cause a mishap. Vehicles can still cause mishaps though. 

[Spagunk]

Doesn't the locator beacon on a drop pod allow ALL deep striking models to land without rolling for scatter? Don't have my codex handy so wasn't sure.

[Quixus]

Indeed it does

[Kanis]

You have to be able to move in the movement phase to declare a tank shock, so I'm almost certain you cannot do that during deepstriking. And the LR evening thinking of trying it is just silly to be honest, it's not worth waiting or risking it that way and only jump troops should be deploying that way for us outside of pods, plain and simple for me. :P