IA: White Swans or Steel Swans

[XKhalilX]

so basic idea:

guard a shrine of a saint the chapter believes is a daughter or son of the Emperor. Though dead ages ago, they protect her shrine for if chaos were to get her bones, the DNA, the matters could get quite serious.

They would have close ties to the Ecclesiarch and Sisters of Battle.

Their official name on record would be the Order of the White Swan or the Order of the Martyred Swan.

The Swan idea is either the saint's nickname, or it may be connected to their heraldry, haven't decided.

to the laypeople of the Imperium they are simply known as the White Swans or the Steel Swans.

They are extremely territorial and favor a very elegant and fluid style of melee combat. Their technique is graceful to point that even the Emperor's Children of the Pre Heresy would find them worthy.

They will be Dorn geneseed created sometime in M35

here is the scheme i came up with:

I wanted a very ashen white grey color, not white but not grey, like the ash of firewood before wind blows it away.

I took astronomican grey (now celestra grey) and basically made it very light (#e8e8e8 on painter). so you painting experts, how much white would i have to mix with astronomican to get this color? and what could i use for highlights? im not very good at this stuff.

the shoulder pauldrons are enchanted blue (now Caledor Sky) altough i may use Space Wolves Gey (now Fenrisian Grey).

and boltgun metal (leadbelcher) aquila and trim. I find gold trimmings on standard marine schemes pretentious, rank and file deserve steel, not gold! ;-)

[Brother Tyler]

I'm reminded of Wandering1's Iron Cranes (though admittedly that Chapter has "iron" in it for some degree of "hardness").

 

Generally speaking, Space Marine Chapter names evoke strength, ferocity, and other bellicose imagery. "White Swans" generally evokes imagery of ballerinas and such.

 

I tend to agree that the name seems more appropriate for an order of the Adepta Sororitas (and I'm leaning more towards one of the orders that isn't an order militant).

 

Practically speaking, the language and symbolism of Space Marine Chapter names is driven by archaic (i.e., 21st century) associations. Who's to say what sort of imagery may come to the fore 38,000 years from now, especially when humanity will be spread across the galaxy and there is no homogeneous "human" culture? Things have changed enough over the last thousand or so years that it's safe to say that pretty much anything might happen in 38,000 years. Under this concept some human culture may develop where a swan might evoke some bellicose meaning that is generally beyond that which our 21st century minds cannot grasp.

 

As with all rules, the rule of cool that drives Space Marine Chapter names isn't rigid and prescriptive. All rules can be broken and if you want a DIY Chapter named the "White Swans" there's nothing and no one that can (or should) stop you. Just steel yourself for the occasional snicker from other gamers that expect some bellicose name.

[GrandMagnus]

Swans might seem feminine and pretty little things, but thats a lie. Swans are territorial, agressive "little" spychopaths. I hate those ers

Just adding my two cents.

[XKhalilX]

anaziel yes thats somethinf most people dont realize. yes there elegant but mean as all hell and EXTREMELY territorial. there monogamous through out their lives so that speaks of loyalty as well.

 

plus the special forces of bosnian 7th brigade

against the serbs was called the black swans.

 

i liked the idea of elegance and loyalty of them. i was leaning towards a heresy era marine captain who had it as part his personal heraldry. or the homeworld was a feudal one with the legendary high lord heraldry as a swan.

 

or i was goin for a saint whose name was nicknamed white swan or their heraldry was that and the chapter is sworn to protect her tomb. theyd work closely with ecclesiarchy and sisters of battle. maybe believing their saint was in fact the actual daughter of the emeperor. kinda that whole divine bloodline thing going on a la davinci code knights templar priory of scion.

 

there holy crusaders like the templars.

 

white swan definitely doesnt have that warlikw feel.

black swans has a degree of it. blood swans or steel swans definitely does but takes away from the latter idea (in my mind) of the saint theme.

[Conn Eremon]

The Black Swans are a Chapter utilized by the Liber community in the Liber Astartes Campaign, link to their thread here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230719-black-swans/

 

I would say go for the White Swans. If you like the name, that is all that matters.

[XKhalilX]

cormac, yes i was the one that initially suggest the idea based off the Black Swans special ops of the Bosnian army

[Conn Eremon]

Ah. Fair enough.

[XKhalilX]

see i do like the sound of Order of the White Swan or Order of the Martyred Swan as im trying to go back to the Medieval crusades feel of a knightly Order, the Templars were known as the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon

and Hospitallers were known as the Order of St. John

 

so that was something I was going for, with the known name throughout the Imperium being the White Swans or Steel Swans, the Ecclesium(sp?) would know them as Order of the White Swan or Order of the Martyred Swan.

 

I noticed names such as Order arent really used saved for SOB, and though Legion is rare, it seems no chapters really bare such a name anymore, with few exceptions.

[Kristoff]

It's not as eyebrow-worthy as the "Emperor's Pointy Sticks", so...

 

They could also have a tradition of elegant combat. Training so that their combat transitions are so smooth that they look effortless and gain admiration of the Dark Eldar and Emperor's Children.

 

Even have that as a sideline where their Chapter Champions are much sought by X Kabal for the arenas do to their elegant brutality. Even better if it's a local's DE Kabal...

[XKhalilX]

i dont know anything about dark eldar. and besides, my guys are loyalists not traitors LOL

 

but yes i had thought about their elegance and grace of melee prowess especially considering there IF geneseed.

 

Now in terms of a backstory history wise, any comments about what I have mentioned?

[Kristoff]

i dont know anything about dark eldar. and besides, my guys are loyalists not traitors LOL

I never meant to imply they weren't Loyalists. Dark Eldar take slaves to fight, torture, experiment on, etc. The tie in here would be that the champions of your Chapter would be much sought as prizes to bring home and fight in their arenas.

Their arenas include all sorts of gladiatorial events, which even they participate. Skill is only part of the equation that they look for in a good fighter, gracefulness is also something highly prized. If they can get a over-sized mon'keigh that can almost match them in gracefulness to fight against them, would be worth a large price, indeed.

but yes i had thought about their elegance and grace of melee prowess especially considering there IF geneseed.

Some would argue that the Blood Angels would have the 'seed for gracefulness . But the Sons of Dorn are most definitely much better at defending a position (or tearing it down).

Now in terms of a backstory history wise, any comments about what I have mentioned?

It could work, but one Chapter is overkill to defend the crypt of one Saint, especially as the Ecclisiarchy's penchant for using Sisters for such work.

I would offer that they are more of a linchpin in a subsector's defense, and one of the great honours is to be part of the squad detached specifically to guard this Crypt. Those have have served as a Guardian have special prestige within the Chapter and are marked for promotion, or even have it as a requirement before they are officially promoted to sergeant. This will provide modelling opportunities which will indicate how often a member has had this honor, and a story opportunity in how they earned the offer of posting a guard there in the first place.

[XKhalilX]

Kristoff, oh okay i get you now. Hmm that can be an interesting back story with Dark Eldar

so im thinking to the Imperium they will be known as the White Swans or Steel Swans. but to the Ecclesiarch and the Ordo Hereticus theyd be known by their "official" name as the Order of the White Swan or Order of the Martyred Swan. Just like laypeople knew the Templars and the Hospitallers as that rather then their official designation from the church.

I was thinking of them protecting a sector thats made up of shrine worlds and cardinal worlds for the ecllesiarch. Perhaps they had a vision of St. so-and-so who they envisioned as the daughter of the Emperor. Of course visions are usually poor writing and comes off as lazy.

I was attempting to do a 41st millenium of the Knights templars true purpose of defending the grail, but mix it with the theoryof the priory of scion that they protect the divine bloodline. Only this time its the Emperor of Mankind, and his daughter is dead, but they defend it none the less because were chaos to get a hold of her DNA.....

[Brother Tyler]

Ah, you've significantly edited the first post with some additional background.

That changes things.

Generally speaking, the concept of the Emperor having descendants isn't part of the Imperial Cult. More importantly, the Sensei, if they still exist in the lore, are considered dangerous heretics.

Here's an excerpt from the old Realm of Chaos book (Slaves to Darkness):

"Before the Imperium was established and long before he was confined to his life-support throne, the Emperor lived in hiding among ordinary Men. During his life he fathered many families, while always taking care to vanish and start afresh whenever possible.

The Emperor's sons, however, proved to have unique powers all of their own. They too are immortal, but while their father is Mankind's most powerful psyker, they are the exact opposite...

Over the millennia, the Sensei (as the Emperor's offspring term themselves) have become adept at hiding within the massed ranks of Humanity. Ignorant of their origins and their true heritage, they have been persecuted and vilified as 'witches' and 'devils' by normal Humans. Their only crime has been to not grow old...

Even a Sensei may not be aware of his true nature until he meets another of his kind. He is simply a man who does not age...

...the Inquisition hunt Sensei down as dangerous mutants, probably in league with the forces of Chaos."

I've omitted a bunch of stuff that isn't relevant to this discussion.

Interestingly, the material on the Sensei implies that the Emperor sired only sons - no daughters. That has never been explicitly stated, though, so can easily be ignored.

So if the Inquisition were to ever learn that a Chapter was guarding some shrine to which it attributed a legacy of one of the Sensei (whether the Chapter knows that term or not), the Ordo Hereticus would have something to say.

More importantly, guarding shrines isn't really something that the Space Marines have as their mission. The Space Marines are mobile strike forces that exist to defend Humanity. While there are some that might guard locations (e.g., the Angels vigilant swear an oath to guard Pervigilium), this guardianship is secondary to their primary role.

More importantly, there is the issue of the relationship between the Adeptus Astartes and the Imperial Cult. A "saint" would more likely be aligned with the Imperial Cult, so guardianship of any saint's shrine would more likely be assigned to one of the orders militant of the Adepta Sororitas. While there are some Chapters that adhere to the Imperial Cult to one degree or another (e.g., Black Templars, Fire Angels), most simply tolerate the Imperial Cult and there tends to be a gulf between the Eclessiarchy and the Adeptus Astartes. In general, the Space Marines don't believe that the Emperor is divine.

All that said, there are ways to work the concept into a Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes.

In my opinion, this hypothetical Chapter would generally follow the standard pattern, but in the course of its history it developed a protective role over the shrine. You've indicated that the shrine is consecrated to a female, so I'm going to shift my idea away from the [genetic] son of the Emperor (Sensei) that you've posited and shift it to a [spiritual] daughter of the Emperor that fits better within the established lore. The shrine being located on one of the worlds that the planet considers to be within its primary area of operations, or it may be because the Chapter participated in the crusade in which the saint demonstrated her miraculous powers. Or there may be some other reason that you might develop. Regardless, the Chapter wasn't created for purpose of guarding the shrine, but adopted that role later on.

In this, the name of the Chapter is important and I don't think that Priory of Sion or White/Black Swans is necessary (or workable) as a Chapter name. The Priory of Sion name is instantly recognizable to anyone that has read Holy Blood, Holy Grail or who has read/watched The Da Vinci Code. Also, if the concept switches to the Chapter adopting this role later in their history, then their (original?) Chapter name would likely have nothing whatsoever to do with this saint. You could choose any number of other names while still having this element of their history. What you might then consider is having the white/black swan as a symbol of the saint and then having some honour marking for battle-brothers that have served as guardians of the shrine. This might be treated as a special duty that any battle-brother might perform, or it might be something that is only performed by more senior members of the Chapter (i.e., veterans, similar to the Deathwing).

Now this has a significant impact on your Priory of Sion idea, so it may not be to your liking. If that is the case, feel free to disregard anything/everything I've said.

[XKhalilX]

tyler i was using the priory of scion not as a name but as a reference of influence, sorry didnt mean to confuse.

hmmm great points, and i forgot all about the sensei/starchild stuff to be honest LOL.


Maybe in their nascient stages of development, they fight along sisters of battle, and the head of their order (i can DIY a SOB order to go along with it) is crowned a saint. DUring the crusade young said chapter is in awe over her and believe she is in someway divine alongside the emperor (making them M35 would benefit in regards to believing in the Imperial Creed). They venerate her just as her order would.

or the shrine is in their territory of defense and have grown to guard it wit extra care given its a saints tomb. Perhaps the first chapter master or entire chapter experiences a vision of her (again visions usually are lazy fluff) and thus the chapter believes in her divinity.

a second idea is that maybe a heresy era captain used the white swan as his heradlry and adopted it as their own. that would make them second founding though, and that might push the belief of it all. perhaps a mighty captain of one of the second founders uses it as his heraldry and the White Swans come off from that in a third founding. (I REALLY dont like this particular idea, but brainstorming is better then nothing).

 

 

EDIT: Tyler I posted the scheme I came up with. I used every metallic and grey citadel paints has and decided that ill use astronomican grey (now celestra grey) mixed with white as the main color for armour. Any idea how to highlight such a light color????

[XKhalilX]

any suggestions brothers as im wuite stuck with history for chapter

[jokaero weaponsmith]

Maybe your chapter could be doing a penitence crusade for some indiscretion at the feast of blades linked to their graceful blade style.

Many progenitor chapters of the Imperial Fists in attendence of this particular feast of blades believe your chapter to have been wronged.

Yet your chapter accepts the decision, knowing that penitence crusade will ultimately be the demise of the chapter, your chapter renames its self the steel swans and leaves for its swan song.

[RazorDaemon]

Definitely unique, and not in a bad way. I like seeing things different every so often, keeps it interesting. I would keep the "Order" part of the name, I concur with it evoking the Medieval sense.

 

For background, perhaps a reason there is a Space Marine chapter where normally Adepta Sororitas would be, the Saint "Swan" could have been from a Space Marine homeworld, a great figure who may have been recruited into the Space Marines if male and for some reason wasn't picked up by the Sisters (or maybe was, and gradually climbed the ranks before "ascending" to a recognized Sainthood). Perhaps it was a major base of one of the older Chapters (you mentioned Dorn, but not a specific Chapter, if you had one in mind) and the Order of the White/Steel Swans were formed from said parent Chapter with that world as their new homeworld.

[NightrawenII]

Where to begin... hmmm

 

The Adepta Sororitas have not been around M35. They owe their existence to Goge Vandire and Sebastian Thor respectively.

 

The Imperium has well estabilished tradition of military saints. Most of succesfull commanders are sooner or later given status of holy figure, especially if they died fighting.

 

The Space Marines pay homage to mortals who have fought at their side. IIRC, sculptures of White Scars stand guard in the tomb of saint Sabbat.

 

 

~ NightrawenII

 

 

[XKhalilX]

jokaero i def. dont want to kill my boys off LOL. but that idea could play well into a hero of chapter on a solo pentinent crusade.

 

its quite frustrating tryin to decide where to begin. im usually pretty good at laying down a framework but this time im having quite the trouble.

 

the idea of maybe being a great hero from a previous chapter in heresy could work though im not keen on it being a male figure of veneration. im really feeling a female figure on this. it feels more chivalrous to protect the feminine. call me a softie ;-)

 

ps: and any painting recipes for above mentioned scheme would be most welcomed.

[Quozzo]

I wouldn't call a chapter the "White Swans" because I simply cant get the imagery of the Queen slapping anyone who kills them out of my head. Steel Swans sound more appropriate but as always, it's your prerogative. But why is a SM chapter defending a Shrine when the Ecclisiarchy would be better suited and have greater control calling over the Adeptus Sororitas.

[XKhalilX]

the idea is theyd have a region of space theu defend akin to the ultras and ultramar. obf course the region would be quite smaller. the shrine would haopen to fall into their jurisdiction.

 

i was thinking that the chapter experienced a mass vision of the saint in question. or they fought alongside her and she was maryred and cannonized and the chapter would be her guardians as it were and all those living in the region of space for which she is buried and revered

[Knight of the Raven]

Here's an idea I had while reading this thread. I don't know how much it's worth.

 

A chaos offensive engulfs a part of imperial space. They steamroll all opposition until they stumble upon a pesky planet. A mere woman had inspired the population to take up arms and fight against the invaders, stopping the chaotic advance enough time for a proper imperial counter-attack to drive off the enemy. During the battle, as drop pods rain down the sky, the woman who came to be known as 'the White Swan' becomes a martyr while defending some position or distracting the chaos forces. Once the dust is settled, strategists and space marines agree that the Martyred Swan was instrumental in the defense of the sector and decide to honor her and the people she led by creating a new chapter that takes recruits from their planet.

[XKhalilX]

i wantwd her military. perhaps a female commissar? are there such things?

 

what i was focusing towards was chapter already being.in existence. maybe a SOB cannoness whose shrine was built there and recruits from that world.

[Cod]

Just a thought, a 'cygnet' is a baby or young swan. Are your guardians a new or young order?

'Steel Cygnets' sounds a little different from swan but may be appropriate too. Good luck working out your background.