War Beast Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've been running 5 Sternguard with 5x combi meltas and 1x meltabombs (sergeant) in a drop pod with Lysander. For the same price I could take a command squad with 5x meltaguns and 5x meltabombs for the exact same price. Can anyone explain the pros/coins of each? I'm inexperienced with either unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I know I posted a paragraph on your other post, but definitely keep them. They are expensive, but with good reason. First of all, I would arm them with all bolters. Maybe a couple combi weapons but I would just worry about spending the least points as possible. If you're worried about tanks, do not fear! Thats what Devastators are for. :) The only con would probably be the expensive amount of points but like I said, it is worth it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 The advantage of the sternguard is their versatility. Yeah you only get the one melta shot with the combis, but after killing that tank you can turn those bolter against infantry of any flavor. The all melta command meanwhile will have issues with any larger squads. Basically Sternguard are for versatility, command squads are for specialties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Well said Lysere. The only reason I wouldn't worry about arming Sternguards with meltas is because they are highly versatile against infantry. They are good against tanks but Devastators can be made specifically for tank hunting. Meanwhile, the Sternguards will already be annihilating entire units without having to spend a turn taking care of a tank. To me, the Sternguards are the superior choice most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Beast Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Of course Devastators can be made for tank hunting, but there are plenty of vehicles that hide out of LOS. So far the combi Melta squad has complemented the Devastators nicely, especially against those pesky Eldar skimmers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Aye, right on. I was a captain obvious. So, its not a waste of points to arm them with combi-meltas, I just personally don't worry about it. Thats all. If you wish to keep them, do so! Everyone has different play styles. But as a unit, they are just too versatile, thus, valuable. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Beast Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Great points. Versatility is very important for my play style. It helps me fight my way out of a lot of poor deployments! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Ha, seriously man. Especially against those armies that can change their deployment after you have deployed. I think everyone can appreciate versatility, as it is good with just about any play style....I imagine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Another point to made about a sternguard. They are the only power armor (drop pod friendly) unit we have that can take a heavy flamer. Which can be used to devastating effect against some armies. Command squads are great spam squads where you can spam a specific type of weapon. That's great if you know what you will be facing so 4x plasma gun is devastating against deathwing and mc's so its great against armies that spam those. Trouble is you leave yourself open to more mismatches the more specialized your units become. That being said don't take this to mean command squads are not a good unit. In the right list and context they are absolutely awesome. However for first turn tank hunting as the op compares them they are not the best. As an aside I also have found LotD fill this roll nicely since all there weapons ignore cover and they have slow and purposeful. You get less shots but having a deep striking MM that ignores cover is devastating to vehicles...eldar especially. Secondary use for this squad is to absorb punishment with a 3++ save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Actually, the fact that Sternguards are the only power armored unit that can take a heavy flamer is quite incorrect. Tactical squads can take a heavy flamer as well. Legion of the Damned is really good though. I would love to add a few squads of them in my force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Actually, the fact that Sternguards are the only power armored unit that can take a heavy flamer is quite incorrect. Tactical squads can take a heavy flamer as well. Legion of the Damned is really good though. I would love to add a few squads of them in my force. Unless your referencing a forgeworld rule (not sure if there is one so can't say yes or no) you may want to check page 159 heavy weapons section of the wargear list note 1. Unless your referring to LotD but then you would note I pointed out drop pod friendly...LotD can't take a pod. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Whoa whoa. What does the 1 mean? Tactical squads better be able to. I find it ridiculous if they can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Never mind. It was right in front of my face. Wow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 What's funny is in the white dwarf right before the codex came out they had a tactical squad with a heavy flamer. Such a let down that you can't, but I can understand why. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 For suicide tank hunting from a drop pod, Sternguard as their ammo lets you pick different targets of opportunity and you won't survive long enough to make use of more than one combi shot, most likely. If you want a dedicated tank hunting squad that will only hunt tanks throughout the course of a game, use the Command Squad. If you want a general use squad that has the option to hunt a couple of tanks and do other things as well, use the Sternguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Beast Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Great discussion. For a tournament army (and my play style), more versatile Sternguard are probably the better choice for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3595981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Consider combi plasma Sternguard instead of combi melta. Against the majority of targets, 10x S7 shots will yield more damage than 5x S8 melta shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would assume anyone taking combi-melta is intending to aim them at AV value and try to get the melta dice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Whether its plasma or melta, it'll take out a vehicle pretty easily either way. Plasma, you obviously get more shots, but with S7 AP3. With melta, you get only 5 shots, but its S8 AP1. You can also assault should the meltaguns fail. Krak grenades do more than anyone may think against vehicles, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Whether its plasma or melta, it'll take out a vehicle pretty easily either way. Plasma, you obviously get more shots, but with S7 AP3. With melta, you get only 5 shots, but its S8 AP1. You can also assault should the meltaguns fail. Krak grenades do more than anyone may think against vehicles, Plasma is AP 2. If it was only AP 3 I'd probably stop using it almost entirely. Also don't forget that when using the drop pod it is super easy to get within melta rage for ensuring the tank kill. Doubly fun if you land right behind it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Whether its plasma or melta, it'll take out a vehicle pretty easily either way. Plasma, you obviously get more shots, but with S7 AP3. With melta, you get only 5 shots, but its S8 AP1. You can also assault should the meltaguns fail. Krak grenades do more than anyone may think against vehicles, Plasma is AP 2. If it was only AP 3 I'd probably stop using it almost entirely. Also don't forget that when using the drop pod it is super easy to get within melta rage for ensuring the tank kill. Doubly fun if you land right behind it. Whoops. I meant 2. Regardless, it will do nicely against vehicles. Drop pods are great for assassination. Just drop right next to whatever you want to kill and boom. Dead unit. Though I tend to like Rhinos more. I suppose its because I absolutely hate having reserves. I rather have my force at full strength turn 1. However, there are times where drop pods are necessary. Against Tau for instance. Overall, drop pods are good if used correctly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Beast Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 So far it's added a lot of much needed dexterity to my Fists. Being able to drop into the enemy's rear has literally been a game changer, especially against hard to reach units like a Fire Prism lurking in the backfield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3596854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Some of my favorite Sternguard builds involve mixed weapons. Some combi Meltas, a Combi-Flamer, and a Heavy Flamer. 10 sternguard in a pod, land right in the midst of the enemy. Allows you to effectively take out everything if you combat squad. Sure they often die or at least take decent casualties but hey, mission accomplished. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3597162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Some of my favorite Sternguard builds involve mixed weapons. Some combi Meltas, a Combi-Flamer, and a Heavy Flamer. 10 sternguard in a pod, land right in the midst of the enemy. Allows you to effectively take out everything if you combat squad. Sure they often die or at least take decent casualties but hey, mission accomplished. Precisely. My Sternguards easily double their points before they get wiped out. But like you said, mission accomplished. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3597169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I would assume anyone taking combi-melta is intending to aim them at AV value and try to get the melta dice.Naturally, but if your targets are lower AV or hiding behind cover saves, then the volume of shots will win out. Edit: I ran the numbers and plasma beats melta (with 2d6) against AV10 and ties against AV11. Melta wins out AV12+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286895-sternguard-vs-command-squad/#findComment-3597231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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