Bloodgrin Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 "Overwatch altered to deny shooting next turn -Unit to unit assault leaping via consolidation moves returning to the rules" These are the rules I refer to. I think it helps us in the scheme of things and plays to our strengths. While we await a codex, it is something. Opinions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwing1511 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Over watch to deny shooting next turn sounds annoying. You'll need more counters, or a great memory. That's just painful. I love the idea of being able to charge from consolidation (that's what it means, rit?) Makes the crusader in me very happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3595840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argun Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That charge from consolidation sounds like a Guardsman's nightmare! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3595847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodgrin Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 The overwatch shooting will only factor in some occasions, but it will make you worry less about missing distance on a charge because you will not have to worry about getting shot in the face next turn if you miss and will make the defender have to decide to overwatch or risk you missing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3595849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratt Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Another question is will the unit you consolidate into get overwatch against you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3595851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That charge from consolidation sounds like a Guardsman's nightmare! ...... and tyranids and orks wet dream. If they bring old sweeping advanced back in, shooting will pretty much stop after turn 3 as units just leap frog from combat to combat. Mind you, it will also be wonderful for my space wolves, so bring it on! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3595858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 O yeah, consolidation CC jumping, OOOOOooooh those where the days. Boy did i hate that going away, whole armys got chopped down that way back in the days. If you get a turn 2 charge that works you could be in CC trough out the game with no chance to get shot, if you kill a full unit in one turn of CC and a 2nd is close you can tie them up in CC with no chance of shooting. Do you know what this means if your thunderwolves get in to CC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3596158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 their swordarms will ache by the end of the match? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3596309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanPesci Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 O yeah, consolidation CC jumping, OOOOOooooh those where the days. Boy did i hate that going away, whole armys got chopped down that way back in the days. If you get a turn 2 charge that works you could be in CC trough out the game with no chance to get shot, if you kill a full unit in one turn of CC and a 2nd is close you can tie them up in CC with no chance of shooting. Do you know what this means if your thunderwolves get in to CC could be tasty indeed. Am i righ tin thinking that beasts/cavalry still only get a 6" consolidation move though, which is useful if these rules rumores are true..but not a huge distance still. Also, would the 'new' combat be resolved the same player turn? (realise there will bill no answers to these yet...jsut hypothesisingz) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3596342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 O yeah, consolidation CC jumping, OOOOOooooh those where the days. Boy did i hate that going away, whole armys got chopped down that way back in the days. If you get a turn 2 charge that works you could be in CC trough out the game with no chance to get shot, if you kill a full unit in one turn of CC and a 2nd is close you can tie them up in CC with no chance of shooting. Do you know what this means if your thunderwolves get in to CC could be tasty indeed. Am i righ tin thinking that beasts/cavalry still only get a 6" consolidation move though, which is useful if these rules rumores are true..but not a huge distance still. Also, would the 'new' combat be resolved the same player turn? (realise there will bill no answers to these yet...jsut hypothesisingz) prolly like in fantasy, if your consolidationmove bring you into combat with a unit that was already in combat, but hasn't had it's combatrolls done yet, then yes, if no, it's during the opponent's turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3596493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 As far as i remember it was move in to CC and wait till next turn to resolve, but the plus is, you cant be shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3596911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnvilofFenris Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm not sure it will be such a massive boost for us. Sure, we can hold our own in the assault phase, but there are armies out there that are better at it, meaning that against them we will suffer for our losing the overwatch/next turn fire double. Amd although as things stand, once we win a combat we can't consolidate into another, it does mean our Grey Hunters can chop a unit apart and then give the next in line a volley of bolter fire at point blank range! However, these changes will make Blood Claws somewhat more viable. Slightly off topic and on a personal note, im always astonished that in a setting filled with laser cannons, rocket firing rifles and tanks with more guns than a battleship, players complain that in 6th shooting your opponent is more effective than running up and stabbing him! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3597143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 And I am continually astonished that in a setting filled also with chainsaw swords, Wolverine-style powered claws, giant punching and crushing fists, and force weapons, people are surprised that other players want running up and stabbing the guy to be an effective tactic. On topic, I find the possibility of consolidation into close combat returning to be hopefully remote and yet unsettling. It was a pretty unbalanced mechanic. Granted, I played Guard when it was possible to do so. The other one sounds annoying. Both together sound like wishlisting. Assault being great again is going to have to wait till 7th, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3597665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I think those 2 changes are very sensible. Especially the consolidation rule. As for how they will effect us. I think it will make saga of the warrior born truly brutal! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3597729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnvilofFenris Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 And I am continually astonished that in a setting filled also with chainsaw swords, Wolverine-style powered claws, giant punching and crushing fists, and force weapons, people are surprised that other players want running up and stabbing the guy to be an effective tactic. On topic, I find the possibility of consolidation into close combat returning to be hopefully remote and yet unsettling. It was a pretty unbalanced mechanic. Granted, I played Guard when it was possible to do so. The other one sounds annoying. Both together sound like wishlisting. Assault being great again is going to have to wait till 7th, I think. A fair point, probably the gun line loving Guard player in me talking! As you say, both changes at the same time do sound a little like a backward step. I think a middle ground needs to be found where shooting and assault are equally viable tactics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598637 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrogzc Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If consolidation move is only d6", just keep your unit 6,1" and you are safe of be caught in a swirling CC spiral. IMHO what's a nosense is a unit launching itself in a melee, crush its enemies and then it get bogged in the open just cause consolidation move cannot put it in CC contact even having move to reach enemy units. I imagine that a mixed solution would be fair. You can get in combat with consolidation move but you can be overwatched by the attacked unit (if not already stuck in combat, of course) and you don't get charge bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozeryk_Sleipnijr Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Where do these rumours come from????? I thought itwas last years April fools joke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If consolidation move is only d6", just keep your unit 6,1" and you are safe of be caught in a swirling CC spiral. IMHO what's a nosense is a unit launching itself in a melee, crush its enemies and then it get bogged in the open just cause consolidation move cannot put it in CC contact even having move to reach enemy units. I imagine that a mixed solution would be fair. You can get in combat with consolidation move but you can be overwatched by the attacked unit (if not already stuck in combat, of course) and you don't get charge bonus. I think that to better simulate battle actions, it would be good that you could use consolidate to charge another unit, but only in the exact same direction as the original charge. It doesn't make sense that the unit could charge in then change direction. Also, if the next unit was more than 3 inches away, they should get overwatch, if less than three, assume they wouldn't have time to fire. Tom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rose Princes Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think that to better simulate battle actions, it would be good that you could use consolidate to charge another unit, but only in the exact same direction as the original charge. ... and now we are using Warhammer Fantasy rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm not sure it will be such a massive boost for us. Sure, we can hold our own in the assault phase, but there are armies out there that are better at it, meaning that against them we will suffer for our losing the overwatch/next turn fire double. Amd although as things stand, once we win a combat we can't consolidate into another, it does mean our Grey Hunters can chop a unit apart and then give the next in line a volley of bolter fire at point blank range! However, these changes will make Blood Claws somewhat more viable. Slightly off topic and on a personal note, im always astonished that in a setting filled with laser cannons, rocket firing rifles and tanks with more guns than a battleship, players complain that in 6th shooting your opponent is more effective than running up and stabbing him! I started 40k playing Tau and spent all my time avoiding close combat as much as possible, I changed to other armies (including Wolves!) because I was tired of losing out on a third of the game! Stabbing is so much fun! Shooting is just so clinical, nothing is quite as awesome as charging into an enemy and sweeping them before you, it's just grand. As for the rules changes I think we will do pretty well. Grey Hunters armed with bolters, bolt pistols and close combat weapons means that depending on the way the rule is worded we may be able to overwatch with pistols, fight, and then rapid-fire next turn. Consolidation into combat is great, sure there are nastier assault units out there but we have a great mix of strength and durability in close combat over many other armies and now if we can consolidate into repeated combat we don't have to worry so much about wiping out a unit of guardsmen and then being left in the open to take battle cannon rounds to the face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3598890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjdudey Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I think that to better simulate battle actions, it would be good that you could use consolidate to charge another unit, but only in the exact same direction as the original charge.... and now we are using Warhammer Fantasy rules. Wouldn't know, never even looked at fantasy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3599159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 It would definitely improve the viability of Warriorborn. Ragnar is pleased... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3600218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I think that to better simulate battle actions, it would be good that you could use consolidate to charge another unit, but only in the exact same direction as the original charge. ... and now we are using Warhammer Fantasy rules. at least those rules make sense... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286916-so-the-rumors-about-the-7th-rulebook-help-us-or-hinder/#findComment-3600969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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