Is Fulgrim himself?

[TheAurelian]

OK in Fulgrim we see his slow change as he deamon posseses him and in the primarchs we see the EC find out about the picture and what not The Tourture begins and "Fulgrim says haha you bastards it really is me im not a deamon" But then in the aurelian Fulgrim is a deamon. What is happening here and was the deamon just lieing like always.DOES Flugrim ever get back his body or not im tired of not knowing HELP PLEASE

[Memento Of Prospero]

He's not a daemon, just misunderstood.

[Perrin]

Aurelian is before The Reflection Crack'd. It isn't stated outright, and others may have a different opinion, but imo Fulgrim is himself, until he ascends.

[Aegnor]

Yeah Aurelian is straight after Istvaan V I believe.

 

I think he still is himself after he ascends. Sort of. After a fashion. Much more so than he was when the daemon from the Laeran sword temporarily possessed him.

[Hyaenidae]

I still think that the daemon is fooling everyone, and Fulgrim has effectively ceased to exist, but hey, that's just me.

[DuskRaider]

I certainly hope Fulgrim is still lost somewhere in there, a helpless captive forced to watch the atrocities. I think it makes his fall much more interesting, tragic, and twisted. Do you honestly expect me to believe the man who fell into such despair after killing his closest brother just magically overpowered the Keeper of Secrets who had taken his body, and is now suddenly not only a deranged psychopath, but openly welcomes Slaanesh? If anything after all that has happened you'd think he would despise Chaos, and Slaanesh in particular. No, I think the daemon is still in complete control.

[Memento Of Prospero]

A Daemon of great power would have no need to ascend. I doubt a lesser daemon woukd control him for long. Since we know he does ascend, then at some point in time it as to be Fulgrim again.

[DuskRaider]

Greater Daemon + Primarch Body / Essence + Ascension = Extremely Powerful Greater Daemon

[GhostMalone]

I still think that the daemon is fooling everyone, and Fulgrim has effectively ceased to exist, but hey, that's just me.

I rathered this over the epitome of perfection going all 360• turn around.

I rather him being trapped and tortured for all eternity

[Kol Saresk]

That works if he consumes Fulgrim's soul. There is still a soul in the painting. So if the daemon is still in control, then it didn't ascend so much as finally warp Fulgrim's body into a pleasing shape while consuming who knows how many eldar souls.

 

But, alas I think not.

 

1.) Earlier and earlier, Fulgrim is being shown as deserving of his vainglorious reputation. At Ullanor, we see him going into a "My sword is bigger" argument full swing. We also see him as the bunt of a poorly written(IMO) gay joke. At Ullanor, we see him playing both sides of the debate.

 

2.) The incest joke is also evidence of his depravity existing before his exposure to the Laer. So his meeting Slaanesh and just magically converting, isn't quite so magical as we first thought.

 

3.) So when we get to Istvaan V, what we actually see isn't the fop who was tricked into killing his closest brother, but the junkie who chose between drugs and his closest brother, swore to never do drugs again, but then went straight from weed to heroin.

[Aegnor]

I think it is Fulgrim again. I've no doubt he learned a lot from having the daemon in his body that permanently affected his "sanity" and appetites. A variation on the theme of how Argel Tal and co. became "enlightened" about Chaos.

 

So he was Fulgrim again, but definitely not the same Fulgrim he was before the possession.

[Memento Of Prospero]

Greater Daemon + Primarch Body / Essence + Ascension = Extremely Powerful Greater Daemon

This isn't Dragon Ball Z. Ascending means one turns from mortal realm to the immaterium realm. A physical body you possess means little there. It is throw the souls you possess that you gain power.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That works if he consumes Fulgrim's soul. There is still a soul in the painting. So if the daemon is still in control, then it didn't ascend so much as finally warp Fulgrim's body into a pleasing shape while consuming who knows how many eldar souls.

 

2.) The gay joke is also evidence of his depravity existing before his exposure to the Laer. So his meeting Slaanesh and just magically converting, isn't quite so magical as we first thought.

 

 

Because being gay is so "Depraved".

I personally would prefer a less rushed fall from grace, but yeah, I think the Daemon is still in controll, it seems unlikely they would have been able to drive it out.

[Kol Saresk]

No, more like the fact that out of all the Primarchs, not only is he the one considered sexually active, but he is the one considered to be sexually active with his sons. So actually, it is an incest joke. And to avoid further confusion, I will go back and correct that.

[spu00sed]

I could live with it earthier way.

 

1) Fulgrim used "primarch magic" to swap places with the daemon when it was asleep

A) however was twisted by the touch of chaos and continued on the path set out for him

B) saw what fun was to be had by following slaanesh and agreed to continue to follow, (maybe slaanesh helped him switch bodies as a loyal servant is always better than a daemon for the gods)

 

2) Fulgrim never escaped and the daemon lied to everyone (shocking I know but they do occasionally lie), it then used the power of the warp,and dead eldar souls to renovate its new home. It was called ascension, but no one around actually knows about ascension and daemon princes an the like. Maybe the daemon was finding a way to permanently bind itself to Fulgrim's body and make it the body immortal. Possible in doing so breaking free from slaanesh and ascended as a lesser god

 

3) Fulgrim and the daemon agree to a time share for the body and swap paces every few hours/days/centuries.

 

4) Fulgrim wakes up in the fang with a massive hangover, after too much fenressian mead, and realised it was all a dream.

[Wade Garrett]

I think the Ullanor thing was more evidence that the Khan is a bit of a jerk than Fulgrim was mincing around going "Okay, boyth, thith campaign ith ovaahhh, time to hith the thowaahhs!"

 

But I also think it makes no sense for a daemon to hijack a mortal form and then turn it daemonic.

 

Going by Raum and the Exalted, daemons posses mortals so they can permenantly anchor themselves in the materium.

 

So why would one make its foothold in the corporeal world into something that's just as tied to the immaterium as it was originally?

[Conn Eremon]

Nobody said daemons are smart, Wade.

 

Otherwise they wouldn't have chosen to be daemons. Sound logic!

 

Personally, I think that Fulgrim is more himself. But I don't think he "took" control back. I think the Greater Daemon bit off a bit more than he can chew, Fulgrim being a Primarch and all. What we are seeing is its inability to fully detain Fulgrim, and the end result is that they are both and neither. The Greater Daemon is still there, but is is now Fulgrim, and Fulgrim is now the Greater Daemon.

 

And while the Greater Daemon might not want his corporeal form to be anchored in the Immaterium, Fulgrim might. Which suggests to me that the Fulgrim identity is ascendant over the Greater Daemon identity.

[depthcharge12]

I think the Ullanor thing was more evidence that the Khan is a bit of a jerk than Fulgrim was mincing around going "Okay, boyth, thith campaign ith ovaahhh, time to hith the thowaahhs!"

 

"Throw thyis insthufferable rasthcal to the floor!"

 

 

"Do we have any Brianths?"

 

 

Now I imagine Fulgrim as a Monty Python Pontius Pilate :rolleyes:

[Clewz]

I see it a wall part of Slaaneshs plan - gain control of the body, break him by killing manus and when he is at his lowest offer him the power to take his body back & all the pleasures of the flesh in return for his allegiance 

[Lord Tharand]

I like the that Fulgrim is still trapped and having to watch all the horrible things done in his name.  It makes what happens to him far more tragic.

[Kol Saresk]

 

I like the that Fulgrim is still trapped and having to watch all the horrible things done in his name. It makes what happens to him far more tragic.

Assuming that he is indeed still trapped in the painting.

 

EDIT: Didn't "Fulgrim" freak out about killing Ferrus in The Reflection Crack'd? If that was the daemon, then why would something it didn't do haunt it so much?

[Lord Tharand]

 

 

I like the that Fulgrim is still trapped and having to watch all the horrible things done in his name. It makes what happens to him far more tragic.

Assuming that he is indeed still trapped in the painting.

 

EDIT: Didn't "Fulgrim" freak out about killing Ferrus in The Reflection Crack'd? If that was the daemon, then why would something it didn't do haunt it so much?

 

Maybe the daemon picks up feelings from Fulgrim?  It's possible he confuses what he feels with what Fulgrim feels at times.

[Týr]

Fulgrim is in fact Alpharius

[Blood Angel Scout]

I thought Angel Exterminus had a passage where Fulgrim  tells Perturabo about everything, being possessed gave him a glimpse of how Slaanesh would enable him to live in a constant of perfection through excess i.e. taking whatever experience to the full limit, and then the desire to reach said point was the reason for ascension...anyone else able to check? No immediate access to my copy so can't see if I'm making it up

[Carach]

what the daemon says and what is the truth are potentially 2 different things though. i, like many, prefer to think fulgrim remains trapped - perhaps the ascension thing was because fulgrim was getting some control back (guilt and all that), so the daemon required the ascension to stop him (to flip the whole real world/immaterium debate) and make the possession a permanent thing.

 

the stories have been intentionally vague about putting this question to bed for obvious reasons. Perhaps we need fulgrim to hook up with Lorgar again to see lol.