is this an underused unit?

[Brother_Darius]

With the number of high toughness models out there should sniper scouts be making there way into more of our lists?

 

Giving them camo cloaks and matching them with the Shroud could make them durable. If they become a priority target, that is one less round of shooting our other units have to endure.

[Millicant]

Maybe it's because I only have 5, but they typically end up doing virtually nothing and then dying when I bring them. Not sure if 10 would be better.

 

That being said, I still like to bring them because I think they're neat.

[Brother_Darius]

Maybe it's because I only have 5, but they typically end up doing virtually nothing and then dying when I bring them. Not sure if 10 would be better.

That being said, I still like to bring them because I think they're neat.

if I do add them in, it would be as a unit of 10 snipers. Still really cheap and the volume of fire could drop a high Toughness eldar model in one round.

[Chronotonic]

my basic list consist of a squad of sniper scouts...the extra set of sniper shots to take out something or make him hold back for a second was always enough to justify the points

 

that and my loaded dice always helped with rending

[Pyro X]

I like snipers, they really work good with a librarian as well.

[Master Sheol]

Sniper scouts with calo cloacks are Always useful...

They have a good 36" range...

The only drawback is that now the sniper rifle is BS related and scouts only have BS3... A librarian with divination can fix it though...

Scouts with shotguns or bolters or Bolt pistol and Combat blade would be interesting Too if we only had access to LSS...

The thing i hate more is that DA scouts dont have access to teleport Homer...

[Fallen11]

 

Maybe it's because I only have 5, but they typically end up doing virtually nothing and then dying when I bring them. Not sure if 10 would be better.

That being said, I still like to bring them because I think they're neat.

if I do add them in, it would be as a unit of 10 snipers. Still really cheap and the volume of fire could drop a high Toughness eldar model in one round.

Well, since they are BS3, that means 5 shots will hit, 4+ to wound means  2-3 wounds max. With 3+ saves, you will be lucky if you cause 1 wound.

[Master Toddius]

I think the best high toughness killing unit in the GAME is a squad of 9 Black Knights with 3 nade launchers. Rad grenades + plasma talons to get a few wounds in prior to the charge -- charge in with 1-3 points less toughness versus +1 st corvus hammers = dead anything in the game.

[Cactus]

I think the best high toughness killing unit in the GAME is a squad of 9 Black Knights with 3 nade launchers. Rad grenades + plasma talons to get a few wounds in prior to the charge -- charge in with 1-3 points less toughness versus +1 st corvus hammers = dead anything in the game.

 

Unfortunately multiple rad grenades don't stack. The rad charge special rule is quite clear on that.

[Master Toddius]

I just reread that and yes I stand corrected. Sigh...

[Isiah]

Scouts are underused due to their less than magnificent armour save too I think.

 

Cheers

I

[Gillyfish]

Maybe they should be added to one of Chaplain Lucifer's future underdog challenges?

 

I used to take scouts a lot back in 3rd/early fourth. They do seem to have fallen out of favour nowadays, partly because they were made elite in 4th and especially since their BS and WS dropped in the recent codex, but it might be worth giving them a shot again (no pun intended) to see how they perform.

[shabbadoo]

Hitting on 4's and wounding on 4's nets one wound for every four models, and with AP -, everything with a save gets a save too (and nearly every big thing has a 3+ or better save). Also, you have to hit to have a chance at Rending, so apply the *chance* for that to only half the total shots being made as well. Pinning won't come into play much either, as most big things either have a high Leadership or are Fearless. BS 3 models with sniper rifles are just not a winning formula for taking down anything big. The sniper rifle stats just plain suck (i.e. sniper rifle accuracy = "spray and pray" accuracy is somehow a sensible thing?) at least until we see a slew of Toughness 9+ models with 6+ saves populate the game. That would leave many weapons, even many heavy weapons and double strength weapons, not being so effective, so then the 4+ wounding sniper rifle would then be a more attractive option than it currently is. I don't see that happening though. These weapons should really be giving the models +1 BS in addition to everything else (back in the day, sniper rifles hit on a 2+ regardless of BS).

But they look cool, and so we use them. I mostly see people taking them with a heavy bolter, and so the unit sits back, holds a rearward objective, and plinks determinedly (but ineffectively) away at things that get within 36" of them. But they look cool!

Now, what I do like Scouts for is for running amok, by which I mean I take a full 10-man squad, arm them for close combat, give the Vet. Sgt. a power fist and meltabombs, and then infiltrate them into the enemy back field somewhere. The enemy *has* to deal with them, or they will quickly be able to get into a position to do bad things to potentially very expensive (and effective) enemy units. Which is what I want, as it means that the enemy will then very likely be less engaged with everything else I plan to smack them upside the head with.

[Raztalin]

One concept I came up with for the Scouts; was based on them being a backfield Objective holder.  Was to pair them with my Favorite backfield fire support unit.

 

1 x Librarian with PFG (standard)

2 x Riffleman Dreads

Sniper Scouts.

 

Now their weak Armour save is negated with the 4++ from the PFG, and they will get the benefit of Pre-science as the Dreads wont be needing it with their TL Auto Cannons.

 

Granted all of the other negatives listed above in terms of them hitting and hurting things still stand true but their resilience is multiplied with this setup, also allowing you to not just contest Home Objectives but to claim them too.

[Brother_Darius]

 

Well, since they are BS3, that means 5 shots will hit, 4+ to wound means 2-3 wounds max. With 3+ saves, you will be lucky if you cause 1 wound.

Ah. Well I did not realize the are no longer 2+ to hit. I cheap Libby would help with that I suppose

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Maybe they should be added to one of Chaplain Lucifer's future underdog challenges?

 

I used to take scouts a lot back in 3rd/early fourth. They do seem to have fallen out of favour nowadays, partly because they were made elite in 4th and especially since their BS and WS dropped in the recent codex, but it might be worth giving them a shot again (no pun intended) to see how they perform.

Off topic: Yes, scouts will feature in the Underdog Challenge.

 

On Topic: I always think, go big or go home. To me scouts should be full ten men, then you could divide into 5 menas necessity dictates. I think 10 men with cloaks, 9 bolters and 1 HB make a nice harasser. Specially if a Devastation standard on a RW unit happen to be nearby. You can put the scouts on enemy territory, race the standard to them and watch the scouts unleash dakka. Then the opponent has to deal with them. Of course this won't work in Tourament scene as well, but it will work on a friendly game well enough. Snipers are good on paper, but on the field it's hard to rely on them. The exception would be Tyranids where a 10 men sniper team can harass T6 creatures.

[Pbenner]

IMO you don't bring scouts because they kill stuff, you bring scouts to camp objectives in cover;  Anything they manage to kill is Gravy.  

[Isiah]

For me a 4+ save has no place in an Astartes army ;)

 

Having said that, put a 10-man sniper squad with a Techmarine (Bolster Defences) in a ruin and that would fix this?

 

Cheers

I

[SvenONE]

After using BS4 units so often, BS3 feels like you miss 90% of your shots.  it's brutal, especially if you're only running a squad of 5.  As someone who's played Dark Eldar, hitting on 4s isn't bad, you just need to dump a TON of shots out, something snipers can't really do, especially if you have to move them.

 

I agree that a 10 man sniper squad is where to be.  The downside is of course that you just spend all those points on a scout squad.  3+ cover save is pretty good, if you invest in a darkshroud even better, just park it out of LOS and let the good times roll.

 

Their problem is with, and stop me if you're heard this before, the cost of the rest of our supporting units, you have to choose between either Tacticals or Scouts, I don't think you can really run both squads in any capacity.

 

I only have 5 scouts and I rarely field them anymore, maybe when Luci's challenge comes I'll get 5 more.  I think they best fit in with a RW army, I think they eat into the budget too much for a DW army.

 

It's a real drag they can't bring teleport homers/locator beacons, I wouidn't say allowing it would break the codex, but let's just say I'm sure you'd see a lot more DA 10th company on the table.  For what it's worth, the Purging of Kallidus features a scout squad that infiltrates and pinpoints a deep strike for Belial.  If only this sort of thing was possible!!

[Brother_Darius]

For me a 4+ save has no place in an Astartes army

Having said that, put a 10-man sniper squad with a Techmarine (Bolster Defences) in a ruin and that would fix this?

Cheers

I

Camo Cloak, Shroud, you could get to a 2+ cover save could you not?

It's nice that we can tailor them in different ways, and looks like they can be a cheap compliment to various styles

1) 10 man Sniper Squad w/Cheap Presenience Libby

2) H2H Config, first turn harrassers (fair support to deep strikers)

3) Shooty bolter config, first turn harrassers with quick aid from dakka banner

[Isiah]

Indeed SvenONE - sadly fluff and game play doesn't marry up all the time.

[Isiah]

For me a 4+ save has no place in an Astartes army

Having said that, put a 10-man sniper squad with a Techmarine (Bolster Defences) in a ruin and that would fix this?

Cheers

I

Camo Cloak, Shroud, you could get to a 2+ cover save could you not?

I don't know - I can't recall what the camo cloak actually does. +1 to basic save is it?

[Komrk]

Never underestimate the scout. I had a five man squad hit a rhino 3 times 2 rolled 6s to get rending, and then one got +3 the other got +2 so I got a glance and a pen, and pen result was weapon destroyed and I destroyed the havoc launcher. Sure it was the only good rolling I had all game failing every single power armor save I had to make but it made it worth getting crushed

 

 

 

 

For me a 4+ save has no place in an Astartes army ;)

Having said that, put a 10-man sniper squad with a Techmarine (Bolster Defences) in a ruin and that would fix this?

Cheers

I

Camo Cloak, Shroud, you could get to a 2+ cover save could you not?

I don't know - I can't recall what the camo cloak actually does. +1 to basic save is it?

That is correct

[SvenONE]

My only issue with using a librarian to prescience scouts is that I feel like that power is best spent elsewhere, say a plasma devastator squad or a lascannon/ml dev squad.  Granted you may not run one of these, but still.

[march10k]

The only thing scouts do that tactical squads don't do better is infiltrate.  For 2ppm less, you give up a pip of armor, WS, and BS...and gain  access to a meh sniper rifle and the starting point for building a very expensive cover save.  I'll pass.  It really is a shame.  One of my favorite units used to be a squad of scouts with pistols and swords, with a stormbolter and fist on the sergeant, plus a heavy bolter.  They'd infiltrate, fight one melee, and then the 3-5 survivors would grab some cover nearby and be annoying with the heavy+storm.  Doesn't work any more, of course, the sergeant was illegal for a while, and now he can be challenged.  

 

The sniper rifles were okay against high-T models when they hit on 2+, but now?  Meh.