Defeating a Super-heavy Walker?

[Captain Idaho]

Let's not get too caught up on the maths. Averages don't really work in 40K unless you roll an obscene amount of dice and few people take that many meltas!

 

Drop Pod a Tactical with 2 meltas and you have a reasonable chance of damaging a Knight substantially. Drop to the side and hit the front with lascannons (what do you mean you don't have any? Shouldn't have went "Vulkan" in last edition then!). My current list has 6 lascannons and might have 7 if I don't add 2 Vengeance Battery quad lascannons! (So between 7 and 10!)

 

Granted it'll be harder to fight a 1750pts full army but one or two as allies? Bring it.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Fliers aren't very good at dealing with Superheavies. You have one turn less at shooting, and have limited firing arcs.

 

We were talking about Knight Detachments.

 

Oh which, they have next to no way of hurting any flier.  Making Fliers the absolute best way of taking them out.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

 

Fliers aren't very good at dealing with Superheavies. You have one turn less at shooting, and have limited firing arcs.

 

We were talking about Knight Detachments.

 

Oh which, they have next to no way of hurting any flier.  Making Fliers the absolute best way of taking them out.

 

Gotta agree with the gentleman here, multiple fliers (vultures/vendettas) would be a good way to go. Get a landing pad if you want an extra turn of firing. Vultures also have vector dancer, which means you can make another turn at the end of your move

[aquamarine]

Another thing I would add to the mix: try and go second if you can. Then the Knight will have run into the centre of the board leaving it more open to a drop pod attack.

 

My plan based on my existing list would amalgamate most of the points already made and would be: pod sternguard with melta / grav behind it, simultaneously use my tacs with lascannons and my devs with las/ MLs, thus avoiding its shield on at least one facing, maybe two [and also using up my tactcal doctrine that turn]. Typhoons in reserve can come and finish it off.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Another thing I would add to the mix: try and go second if you can. Then the Knight will have run into the centre of the board leaving it more open to a drop pod attack.

 

 

Never bank on the stupidity of an enemy.  Most players aren't that dumb.

[WarriorFish]

Going second isn't a bad idea if you want to see what he'll be doing, but don't expect him to make things easy for you as DEF said. It could well result in no benefit - or worse..! If your opponent does make such a mistake then treat it as what it is: a bonus.

[aquamarine]

Fair points, I was assuming that Knights would be run forward to engage no matter what, to get the most use out of them, and that this would open up more facings for attack. Perhaps "centre of the board" was a bit of a dumb assumption.

[Demus Ragnok]

Fair points, I was assuming that Knights would be run forward to engage no matter what, to get the most use out of them, and that this would open up more facings for attack. Perhaps "centre of the board" was a bit of a dumb assumption.

Running them forward to get the most use would require there being something to kill with the D chainsword. For me they seem more of a firesupport platform against most 40k armies. There would be some things that would need the D strength treatment I suppose, sometimes.

[Gentlemanloser]

With a 12" move as standard, they should be able to reach the two 2++ Save units that night require a CC D treatment. ;)

[Fibonacci]

. There would be some things that would need the D strength treatment I suppose, sometimes.

Like anything with a re-rollable 2++

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

Fair points, I was assuming that Knights would be run forward to engage no matter what, to get the most use out of them, and that this would open up more facings for attack. Perhaps "centre of the board" was a bit of a dumb assumption.

Running them forward to get the most use would require there being something to kill with the D chainsword. For me they seem more of a firesupport platform against most 40k armies. There would be some things that would need the D strength treatment I suppose, sometimes.

 

Exactly.  If you've got a two-shot battlecannon with enough range to strike anywhere on the board, the only reason to run forward and utilize that D-CCW is if you encounter Screamerstar, Jet Council, or maybe Hammernators (but honestly, everywhere has other, better ways of dealing with them).

[Exark]

Why not answer it with our own super heavies? A Cerberus would average one penetrating hit (is cheaper to boot and for slightly more gets the tank hunters rule), and with its shock pulse rule, would basically shut down the knights ranged capability and leave it open to destruction the next turn (hopefully).

 

Plus imo the only thing that can really threaten the cerb on the knight is its chain sword (unless its an Errant, but still).

 

Or for that matter, the iconic thunderhawk.

[Captain Idaho]

 

 

 

Fair points, I was assuming that Knights would be run forward to engage no matter what, to get the most use out of them, and that this would open up more facings for attack. Perhaps "centre of the board" was a bit of a dumb assumption.

 

Running them forward to get the most use would require there being something to kill with the D chainsword. For me they seem more of a firesupport platform against most 40k armies. There would be some things that would need the D strength treatment I suppose, sometimes.

 

Exactly.  If you've got a two-shot battlecannon with enough range to strike anywhere on the board, the only reason to run forward and utilize that D-CCW is if you encounter Screamerstar, Jet Council, or maybe Hammernators (but honestly, everywhere has other, better ways of dealing with them).

I do think an Imperial Knight works well for putting on pressure on opponents even if you're not going to need to charge. Charge anyway! You can kill 2 units instead of 1.

 

The opponent will worry that's what you're going to be doing.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, the ability to skip almost half way across the table into combat is going to pile a lot of pressure on. It's not like the Knight has much to fear as it can squash almost anything in CC without problem.

[aquamarine]

What the Captain said. I get the fire support argument to avoid exposing it to risk, given the impressive range on its weaponry.

I just can't see them hanging back either, as opposed to moving up fast, then firing and charging at different enemies at once, taking out 2 enemies a turn; torch one and squash the other.

That's what I was thinking in terms of getting the most out of them...if just fire support is wanted you could get better use of those points?

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, that's a safe bet as a Knight's CC abilities are too good to waste. I'd expect early game to be more cautious as your opponent is wary of what you might have up your sleeve but afterwards the Knight will be off to wallop choice targets.

[Lord-Captain Cepinari]

Realistically speaking, I'd say aim for the joints.  If you could kneecap it the damn thing would just fall over.

 

Granted, realistically speaking any robot that size should tear itself apart just trying to move.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I faced one on Wednesday and managed to bring it down in 2 turns... a glance from concentrated fire on turn 1, 'concentrated fire' here being 2 S8 and 4 S6 shots to the side and 2 S8/2 S7 to the front as that was all I could bring to bear, second turn got 2 penetrating hits from a Storm Raven, got the explodes, and rolled 3 on the D3 hull points to finish it off. I also had Vanguard vets with melta and a power fist ready as I was prepared to have to kill it in combat.

 

What worries me is the concept of parking it angled in a corner as the battle cannon at least has decent range, and you're forced to deal with AV13 and the forcefield. Granted it only threatens a smaller area, but it completely dominates that section of the table.

[minigun762]

What worries me is the concept of parking it angled in a corner as the battle cannon at least has decent range, and you're forced to deal with AV13 and the forcefield. Granted it only threatens a smaller area, but it completely dominates that section of the table.

Isn't that the same issue you face with a Riptide?

[Captain Idaho]

Riptides are actually superior against Marines in many ways. They make our Drop Pod attacks vulnerable by Interceptor, they have better firing arcs and they can't be killed in less hits than they have wounds very easily.

[Chaplain Admetus]

I'd much rather face a titan that's corner camping than the equivalent points worth of riptide. Riptide has longer range, is more survivable, can hurt you when you come in thanks to interceptor, has the same number of 'wounds', and is just as hard to drop for about half the price. Frankly, my game plan against riptides generally involves spamming Fear of the Darkness at it and trying to make it run away...

[jeffersonian000]

One thing to remember us that while Paladin is a generalist platform, Errants are intended for "close range" combat. An Errant player will be seeking Cose Combat as soon as possible, gaining immunity from range attacks by getting locked in combat, the old "hide in assault" trick. If their Knights are Primary, you will be looking at a minimum of 3 Knights attempting to capture and sit on objectives, attempting to stay in assault, or dumping fire into solft targets while staying mobile. That said, 3 knights means points for allied bubble wrap units, which means a focus on Anti-air and Anti-Alpha Strike, as the Knights will be covering Anti-Deathstar, Anti-Infantry, and Anti-Tank.

 

A savy Knight player will be covering their exposed backsides with allied counter units. What is you tactic for taking down that?

 

SJ

[Captain Idaho]

As a Space Marines player it is fairly easy enough to have your Drop Pod waves specialised. An anti infantry unit to remove the bubble wrap units and then use later wave with melta.

 

Codex Astartes dictates a balanced approach so you should still be pummelling those Knights at range with your superior anti tank.

 

Remember an army of Knights hiding behind a bunch of fodder units will struggle to trade fire with multiple tanks and Dreadnoughts. AV13 is hard to hurt even with multiple battle cannons.

[Ishagu]

I was hoping the Knights would allow us to force feed the Riptides some of their own medicine but this has not been the case...

Alas I feel it is completely wasted if you simply use it as a long range gun platform. The Knights should be Errants who seek close combat, and they should advance with other threats the enemy cannot ignore...

[Montuhotep]

As a Chaos player, dealing with a Knight is pretty straightforward:

 

 Maulerfiends.

 

 A pair at least. 1 with Lasher Tentacles to reduce it's attacks and then one or 2 (preferably 2) with melta cutters to take it apart.

 

1 round of combat. Done and done. Worst case you'll lose a fiend.