Trevak Dal Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I know. Assault list in 6th edition. Bad for Crunch. Sorcerer in a Khorne list. Bad for Fluff. I know. I'm just wondering if anybody has seen Sorcerers configured for fightin', what disciplines helped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Well ive run a ML3 slaanesh Endurancercerer with my talons to some success...roll twice on biomancy for ironarm or warpspeed gave him the skull of kerngar for Eternal warrior along with spine shiver blade for up to 10A @ I6. Its only at S4 but good against infantry/MEQ. Only issue is hes only got 2W. For more survivability maybe MoN sorcerer on Palanquin gives you T5 an 4W and run it with MoN spawn....roll on biomancy and hope for Endurance (FnP spawn) or telepathy and try to get invisibility to give your guys better cover en-route to combat. I mostly use my Sorcerers for shooty buffs ie Symphony of pain combo with Endurance to make my NM relentless ans sonic weapons +1S but havent used many assaulty buffs apart from the ones mentioned Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Biomancy all the way. Endurance and Enfeeble are excellent. Warp-improved fighting prowess can't be too far outside of Khorne's remit. TDA, lvl3 force axe, unmarked to leave room for 3 spells. Spell familiar +/- combat familiar. Alternatively, bike and sigil of corruption. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Bike and ML 3, unmarked, force axe and sigil (and familiar ofc)... If he gets iron arm and rolls a 3 he is actually untouchable for S4 or lower weapons, haha, always funny to see! :) Always fun running a TS list with Ahriman and he gets warp speed & iron arm, what a boss! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have been using an assault army CSM with allied Daemons lately and I run a Lord and Sorcerer on bikes, the Sorcerer is huge for me in almost every game. A force axe really comes in handy and I usually roll on Telepathy unless I am playing against Tau. Dude is big time for me. Sorcerer, ML3, Bike, 4++, Force Axe, Gift of Mutation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Okay, regarding a sorcerer on a bike, did you guys convert yours or is there a model? I got the new finecast model (which I like a lot with a Warptalon head). I only have one unit of bikes, which is where my Axelord goes normally-my only concern would be that with the sorcerer not being mark of khorne, the icon of wrath wouldn't allow re-rolls to charges for the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Okay, regarding a sorcerer on a bike, did you guys convert yours or is there a model? I got the new finecast model (which I like a lot with a Warptalon head). I only have one unit of bikes, which is where my Axelord goes normally-my only concern would be that with the sorcerer not being mark of khorne, the icon of wrath wouldn't allow re-rolls to charges for the unit. Yes they can. The icon doesn't give fleet, it's just a: "when determining charge distances a unit with this icon can re-roll the result", no restrictions about all needing to be MoK in the unit for it to work for that effect, but he won't get furious charge...something he usually won't need if he has iron arm... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Run mine in a Noisemarine list, all Slaanesh powers along side Be'lakor. That combo makes assaulting a lot easier. Halucination from Be'lakor (roling a 3 or 4 puts a smile on you) and the ws/bs reducing from the Sorceror makes a charge and shooting from Noise marines a pretty serious business. That is if you dont mind the hefty points cost included. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Okay, regarding a sorcerer on a bike, did you guys convert yours or is there a model? I got the new finecast model (which I like a lot with a Warptalon head). I only have one unit of bikes, which is where my Axelord goes normally-my only concern would be that with the sorcerer not being mark of khorne, the icon of wrath wouldn't allow re-rolls to charges for the unit. No model, you'll have to convert. Look at the DV bike sergeant model, thats cheap and comes with robed legs. You can slice your finecast sorcerer in half (:P) or just put a PA torso and sorcerer head on top. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3602984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I have a sorcerer I use every once in a while for a more assault oriented list. I don't use him very often but he's extremely fun and hilarious to use. Mark of Tzeentch, Disk of Tzeentch. ML 3 with one or two spells in Tzeentch and the rest in Telepathy (because I personally adore it). If I'm using the Black Legion codex for the game, which is what I usually use this guy with, I generally purchase the shiver spine blade to give him that nasty daemon weapon ability so he can easily zoom through the field and just cleave through combat squads with ease while maintaining a hefty save. If I do this, I make his force weapon an axe just in case he needs to fight something AP3. If I'm feeling sassy and got points to spare, I'll pick up the Last Memory of Yuranthos. It doesn't look like much but the ML 4 is just always helpful and with the ability to close the gap with his enemies so easily, the Sunburst and those short ranged Tzeentch powers are pretty solid. Just my two cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Run mine in a Noisemarine list, all Slaanesh powers along side Be'lakor. That combo makes assaulting a lot easier. Halucination from Be'lakor (roling a 3 or 4 puts a smile on you) and the ws/bs reducing from the Sorceror makes a charge and shooting from Noise marines a pretty serious business. That is if you dont mind the hefty points cost included. With allies then I assume? You can't have a Slaanesh lord & sorcerer with Be'lakor without 2000+ points or allies. Also, you can max have 2 Slaanesh powers on a sorcerer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I am currently working on a list that uses Be'lakor to cast Invisibility on a large unit of dedicated CC marines. The idea is to run them on foot through terrain so that they have a 2+ or 3+ cover save and then smash them into combat with WS 1 opponents (due to invisibility). Kind of a 1 trick pony, but could be fun in a friendly game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 How is it working for you? I'd be concerned that, since the squad is on foot, and slowed by that terrain you're running them through, they wouldn't make it in the first turn, Be'lakor would bite it in the enemy turn since the opponent wouldn't have any reason not to put all their effort into killing him, and your infantry assault unit would be left high and dry after that, still out of assault range, but no longer benefiting from invisibility. But I've never tried it, and still haven't run Be'lakor, so maybe I'm underestimating his durability? Anyway, it seems like the kind of gimmick that would want Huron's help, to cut out that extra turn of running - but then you run into problems if the opponent goes first and can focus fire down your big assault unit before you have a chance to get invisibility up? Anyway, yeah, definitely let us know how it works on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I haven't had a chance to use it yet, so its still in its infancy. You are right in the points you bring up Mal, and those are some of the main reasons this type of list still needs further thought. I think Be'lakor will be durable enough to last for a few turns, as he already has shrouded and is a flying MC. Like most chaos melee units and the codex as a whole they lack reliable transportation to get them where they need to be. Infiltrating with Huron is one option, as is Cypher and Chosen. The only issue I can see with Cypher is that even at 1850 you will be running out of points quickly. One thing to point out, it may be possible to run that large unit behind terrain rather than through it. This still wouldn't allow for a 1st turn assault, but it would keep them moving at their normal speed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I've had a lot of fun using a ML 3 MoN TDA sorcerer in games vs orks. Rolled up biomancy and he takes ghazgul on by himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 One thing to point out, it may be possible to run that large unit behind terrain rather than through it. This still wouldn't allow for a 1st turn assault, but it would keep them moving at their normal speed. At some point, though, you're going to have to move through - or worse, around - that terrain, so the protection is going to be coming at a speed cost, which may not matter if the enemy is coming to you,but will be a problem if they're holding back, or worse moving away from you. You alse have to worry about enemies with divination, or marker lights, or baleflamers, all of which will chew straight through your cover saves, as well as enemy units that can straight up outfight your infantry in hand tO hand. I'm not trying to be a negative nancy about it, just pointing out potential issues. I remain very interested in hearing what you're able to do with the set up, as I do like large CSM blocks, and have my own substitute Be'lakor model in the mail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 One thing to point out, it may be possible to run that large unit behind terrain rather than through it. This still wouldn't allow for a 1st turn assault, but it would keep them moving at their normal speed. I'm not trying to be a negative nancy about it, just pointing out potential issues. I remain very interested in hearing what you're able to do with the set up, as I do like large CSM blocks, and have my own substitute Be'lakor model in the mail. I know your not being negative, and I do understand that I'm trying to climb up a hill, while wearing roller skates, in the dark, while intoxicated. :P Is there any other buffs that could help this work? Obviously infiltrating with Huron or heck even Ahriman would help (and the added powers from Ahriman may be useful). Could Invisibility help with a rhino rush? I know that it would not do anything for the turn the guys had to sit and wait, but maybe keep the rhino from being blown to bits would make it slightly more reliable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Fenris, you should try that trick with nurgle spawn. They are absolutely horrifying with a 2+ cover save while advancing and actually hit on 3+ for once in cc, and enemies only hit on 5+! :) Be'lakor can usually manage to score a 2+ or 3+ cover save with his own shrouded in the meantime as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Fenris, you should try that trick with nurgle spawn.The spawn are also beasts and hence ignore terrain penalties. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Fenris, you should try that trick with nurgle spawn. They are absolutely horrifying with a 2+ cover save while advancing and actually hit on 3+ for once in cc, and enemies only hit on 5+! Be'lakor can usually manage to score a 2+ or 3+ cover save with his own shrouded in the meantime as well. I have a spawn project in the beginning stages, currently collecting bits to kit bash my own, so I may have to give this a try. Another option would be Nurgle Bikers, as they would also be able to bring some firepower along to boot. A 'cheap' Lord on a bike could also bring a Mace or AoBF to increase the killy power of the unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Run mine in a Noisemarine list, all Slaanesh powers along side Be'lakor. That combo makes assaulting a lot easier. Halucination from Be'lakor (roling a 3 or 4 puts a smile on you) and the ws/bs reducing from the Sorceror makes a charge and shooting from Noise marines a pretty serious business. That is if you dont mind the hefty points cost included. With allies then I assume? You can't have a Slaanesh lord & sorcerer with Be'lakor without 2000+ points or allies. Also, you can max have 2 Slaanesh powers on a sorcerer. Nope not with Allies, the Noise marines stay in the elite slot. Hence the note about its points cost. As for Be'lakors survivability, his use of telepathy has you go with 2 powers of himself, puppet master and Halucination, the last 1 can shut down a unit a entire turn, also clever use of terrain and such helps alot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Run mine in a Noisemarine list, all Slaanesh powers along side Be'lakor. That combo makes assaulting a lot easier. Halucination from Be'lakor (roling a 3 or 4 puts a smile on you) and the ws/bs reducing from the Sorceror makes a charge and shooting from Noise marines a pretty serious business. That is if you dont mind the hefty points cost included. With allies then I assume? You can't have a Slaanesh lord & sorcerer with Be'lakor without 2000+ points or allies. Also, you can max have 2 Slaanesh powers on a sorcerer. Nope not with Allies, the Noise marines stay in the elite slot. Hence the note about its points cost. As for Be'lakors survivability, his use of telepathy has you go with 2 powers of himself, puppet master and Halucination, the last 1 can shut down a unit a entire turn, also clever use of terrain and such helps alot. Good ideas here, use Halucination to stop a unit from doing anything or Puppet Master to shoot themselves instead of your linch pin assault unit running across the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Good ideas here, use Halucination to stop a unit from doing anything or Puppet Master to shoot themselves instead of your linch pin assault unit running across the table.Puppet master doesn't stop anyone shooting, and it's pretty pointless to target a unit with multiple models. That's my main problem with telepathy, my sorcerer runs with a unit, whoever he targets with puppet master has to be shot by the rest of the unit, but puppet masters prime targets are vehicles. Running a solo telepathy sorcerer may be ok, but T5 on a disc with only 2w may be squishy due to the lack of 2+ save. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Good ideas here, use Halucination to stop a unit from doing anything or Puppet Master to shoot themselves instead of your linch pin assault unit running across the table.Puppet master doesn't stop anyone shooting, and it's pretty pointless to target a unit with multiple models. Sure it doesn't stop them from shooting back per say, but it would if you caused 25% casualities or destroyed the vehice/unit. It's not going to always yield the results you are looking for, but if it can take out a scoring unit or reduce the effectiveness of a unit that can cause you problems then its well worth trying. So far, without playtesting I think the best use would be to cast Invisibility on bikes or spawn as they rush headlong into your opponent. Sure stock bikers aren't that amazing in CC but when your opponent is swinging back at WS1 due to invisibility it makes for a very one sided combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Indeed. I think with the advent of knights, a mobile lvl3 telepathy user (50% chance to get puppetmaster) will be awesome. Not to mention the chance for rolling 3-6 on the hallucination table for a knight. SD attack on itself? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287219-sorcerer-in-an-assault-list/#findComment-3603496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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