Inquistion help?

[thade]

One of my largest peeves with the Grey Knights, and something that sucks fun from 40k in general for me, is that I have to try to justify *not* taking Coteaz in every single list I write.

I've got your back.

The core assumption that the Coteaz Grey Knights forum makes now is that Coteaz is indisputably auto-take; reason being that his points-cost/power ratio is accepted to be far better than everything else in the codex. Even given this assumption, there still ways to justify not taking Coteaz:

• Challenge yourself and play "GK Hard Mode". Build lists that don't have Coteaz. Purposefully use (much) more expensive HQs and see if you can still win.
• Maybe discover something; just take a unit you usually don't and try to make it work. Some may remember I did this with Vanguard back in 5th when Tactica Astartes uniformly rejected them as a waste, and I both had a lot of success with them and got other people into trying them out.
• Because the story demands it: just declare that this particular game doesn't include Coteaz because he wouldn't have been at this event/battle/whatever.
• Because you hate that model. Seriously, it's dumb. I don't want to paint it and I don't want it in my kit. <3
• Because you (or your opponents) are really sick of Coteaz. This is a legit reason.

[Deet]

I completely get not wanting to field him for personal reasons. I was just confused why both the 1d4chan strategy listing and the battlescribe data lists don't include him...like he was taken out of the codex in some FAQ or something.

 

So my next question, if GK are not considered competitive in the current meta, why not take the best version of GK you can? Above reasons aside... I've yet to paint up enough points to take GK as anything more than an allied attachment, but I haven't had a whole lot of luck with them.

[Gentlemanloser]

I personally don't have to face Tau/dar or Grav Bikers. ;)  So uber optimisation isn't really required.

 

Plus, I'm still carrying around the stigma of the end of 5th edition.  Trying to explain that 6th toned down the GK dex, but buffing others, falls on deaf ears. :(

[thade]

Plus, I'm still carrying around the stigma of the end of 5th edition. Trying to explain that 6th toned down the GK dex, but buffing others, falls on deaf ears.

I remember the first time somebody commented to me that my 'dex (5th Blood Angels) was "woefully underpowered"...and it was a serious comment with serious nods all around. Not mine though.

So my next question, if GK are not considered competitive in the current meta, why not take the best version of GK you can?

I provided several reasons. If you prefer we can go with my old standby: until somebody builds a solid proof-by-induction that a given list is "the best version of GK" there's still room to gather experimental evidence. Right now, the favorite hypothesis is "Coteaz is the best!" and people test that hypothesis by fielding Coteaz. There is a good amount of supporting (if anecdotal) evidence.

Attack the problem from the other direction. Test the null hypothesis. Assume that Coteaz is NOT the strongest, and seek to show other models are equally strong or stronger. You do this by not fielding Coteaz and winning reliably with some other list(s). Bonus if you beat a Coteaz GK list with a non-Coteaz GK list.

[MagicMan]

On Topic, any advice for taking Inquisitors?

 

 

I'd like to take an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and a few buddies to go with my Marines. I'm more into using things that are fun/look awesome, but it'd be helpful if they were useful ingame too. :)

[Gentlemanloser]

I remember the first time somebody commented to me that my 'dex (5th

Blood Angels) was "woefully underpowered"...and it was a serious comment

with serious nods all around. Not mine though.

o_O

While waiting for a new GK Dex, I played the new Marines that came out (SW, BA, etc).

I fields a tiny, elite, BA army. Two Ravens, SG+Priest and dual BT Dreads in both. Dante with an HG unit.

The looks for terror, and cries of ZOMG OP!!! when the Ravens delivered the Dreads and I proceeded to wipe out entire MEQ squads with them.

"So you have S6 Power Weapons, and for each marine of mine you kill you get an extra attack?"

*snip* *snip*

Next, I dropped Frag Cannon Dreads from Ravens.

"S6 Rending Template? And each dread drops 2???"

Ah, the good old days.

On Topic, any advice for taking Inquisitors?

There are 4 primary options.

1: Coteaz

2: OM Inquisitor, TDA, Psycannon (with or without PML1)

3: Any Order Inquisitor, PML1.

4: OX Inquisitor with Rad/Psycho 'nades. Attach him to your BB CC beatstick unit of choice.

You can add as many Servo Skulls to numbers 2/3/4 as your points allow.

Anything else is for funz. ;)

[MagicMan]

Cool, thanks.

[Gentlemanloser]

NP!

 

A little explanation of my choices.

 

Coteaz is the bomb.  He's just about an auto include in any list that can take him.  Which is now just about every army. ;)

 

The OM Inquisitor in TDA is a 3 Wound Psycannon holder, with a S6 Force Weapon in CC.  And at 80 points, is cheap for a 3W Terminator.  Just stick him in a squad with higher majority Toughness.

 

The bare bones 55 point Psychic Inquisitor is an awesome buff to any unit.  Larger Deny save, Divination rerolls.

 

The OX grenade caddy is fun.  Psycho 'nades ruins assaults, and Rads are brilliant.

 

Every Inquisitor provides their unit with Stubborn, and (bar Coteaz) give you access to servo skulls.  Which can render some opponents scuppered before play starts (Bikers, or anyone else that rely on Scouts/Infiltrators).  They can also provide a higher Ld score for a unit.

 

I suppose, for a 5th option would be a bare 25 point Inquisitor just for Stubborn and 3 extra wounds in a unit.

 

 

For fun, an Inquisitor with dual Pistols or Dual Daemonweapons can be a laugh.

 

 

And don't forget the Liber Heresius.  15 points for a 10 in 12 chance to gain Scout.  Awesome.  Not facing Servo Skulls yourself?  Scout an Inquisitor attached to a unit of 10 Terminators.

 

 

The only real drawback to C:I Inquisitors is the inability to embark BB transports.

[MagicMan]

Thanks for the detail! They sound pretty good all round.

Any suggestions for retinues? Or are they not worth it?

I'd be tempted to make one anyway, for the cool modelling opportunities.

[Gentlemanloser]

The warband staples;

 

1: Warrior Accolytes with Bolters/Storm Bolters.  Seriously, who wouldn't kill for 7 point minis that shoot Storm Bolters? ;)  Bolters are a cheaper option, and give you more kill to cost than Stormbolters when in Rapid Fire range.

 

Yet they are fragile, and getting close to your enemy can lead to you being wiped off the board.

 

2: Plasma Cannon Servitors.  Only recommended if you plan to attach your Inquisitor to your Warband.  But consider this, 115 points gives you an Inquisitor with Divination and three Plasma Cannon Servitors.  Want to drop three Plasma blasts each turn with rerolls to hit?

 

3: Death Cult Assassins.  These girls are *probably* (in the Carlsberg meaning) the best Assault unit in the game.  The only thing they lack are Assault Grenades and AP2 on Initiative attacks.

 

But I6 base.  With two Power Weapons.  And non TEQ unit hit with them *will* die.  Messily.

 

4: Crusaders.  Add a few to give your some durabilty to your squads.  Some swear by them, I find them too expensive and you shouldn't care about the durability of warbands.  They're gonna die. ;)

 

You can get some lolz with these and Karamzov.  Drop Big K's Orbital Strike on a Crusader in between a coule of enemy units/vehicles and laugh manically.

 

5: Jokers.  Expensive, but who doesn't want a unit of 12 Lascannons?  :P  Or, take 5 and stick them in a Chimera and again, laugh manically. ;)

 

6: New addition to C:I - Priests.  Expensive again, but get a mention due to thier Psychic Powers that aren't Psychic Powers.  Becuase deny/perils of the warp are for chumps Warband Psykers.  Attach a CC beatstick to a warband with a Priest, and roll under a 9 to let them reroll failed saves in assault for the turn.

 

7: Psykers. /meh.  If the dice god loves you, you can drop a single blast to rival a Vindicator.  More often than not, you'll peril and lose the entire unit.  Or be hit by a mindstrike/condemnor boltgun and cry.

[Bloodgrin]

NP!

A little explanation of my choices.

Coteaz is the bomb. He's just about an auto include in any list that can take him. Which is now just about every army.

The OM Inquisitor in TDA is a 3 Wound Psycannon holder, with a S6 Force Weapon in CC. And at 80 points, is cheap for a 3W Terminator. Just stick him in a squad with higher majority Toughness.

The bare bones 55 point Psychic Inquisitor is an awesome buff to any unit. Larger Deny save, Divination rerolls.

The OX grenade caddy is fun. Psycho 'nades ruins assaults, and Rads are brilliant.

Every Inquisitor provides their unit with Stubborn, and (bar Coteaz) give you access to servo skulls. Which can render some opponents scuppered before play starts (Bikers, or anyone else that rely on Scouts/Infiltrators). They can also provide a higher Ld score for a unit.

I suppose, for a 5th option would be a bare 25 point Inquisitor just for Stubborn and 3 extra wounds in a unit.

For fun, an Inquisitor with dual Pistols or Dual Daemonweapons can be a laugh.

And don't forget the Liber Heresius. 15 points for a 10 in 12 chance to gain Scout. Awesome. Not facing Servo Skulls yourself? Scout an Inquisitor attached to a unit of 10 Terminators.

The only real drawback to C:I Inquisitors is the inability to embark BB transports.

You....you I like...

[Gentlemanloser]

/doffs hat

I try to be of assistance.

(Even if I'm a bit cynical and even grumpy at times! )

[Inquisitor Fox]

Question though, besides the Psychic Pilot, why would a Codex: =][= need a Grey Knights transport?  With access to Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders, Chimeras and Valkyries, the ability to take retinues in large mass quantities... I mean, sure, a Storm Raven is sexy, but there's enough other options you're okay.  The difference between an AV14 Land Raider and an AV14 Land Raider with psychic pilot is pretty slim.  Valkyries only lack assault ramps and that's not that big a deal really for most retinues.  While it's an important distinction, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[Gentlemanloser]

It's not that INP, it's the inability for you to (for example only) take a C:I Inquisitor with just PML1 to buff a Codex: Space Marine Squad, and the Inquisitor being unable to ride in that Squads Transport (Edit: Of the the combined squad to ride in *any* transport what so ever...)

 

The only time a C:I Inquisitor can ride in a squads transport is if it's a C:I Warband.

 

Which limits your options somewhat.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Yes and no.  While it is true that the C:I character cannot ride in the C:GK transports, is that really a problem?  Not being able to join the Marine squad to add to their resist the witch roll is meh, but prescience works just fine on a friendly unit within 12".  Simply take an Inquisitor, a small unit of durable henchmen (perhaps crusaders for the 3++) to absorb fire, and run around buffing friendly units nearby with your own ride.  Have two or three MSU units acting like one giant kill blob.  Small points cost relatively speaking, and works just fine.

 

With the way the new allies system works, Force Org slots are relatively expendable and easy to come by.  It's not the limiting factor.  Nor is the points cost of the Inquisitor, some henchmen, and their own ride.  You can do all of that for 100-150 points easy (and have a ride with a bit of firepower either via 2 psybolt heavy bolters on a Chimera, or a psybolt "psycannon" on a Razorback).  All it really requires is to begin thinking outside our preconceived boxes.

 

As an example, on a double force org Inq force, one could have 4 malleus Inquisitors with hellrifles join a unit with three plasma cannon servitors, three acolytes with plasma guns, a pair of monkies, and several crusaders and absorbing wounds models to stand in front.  This could be an allied contingent that lights up one unit a turn and chews through them via shooting backed by prescience.  Cheap, useful, non-Coteaz, and something you don't see people using.  Why?  Because it's not "Traditional".

[Gentlemanloser]

Because it's Dual FoC. ;)

 

That's more broken than non allied, non FoC Riptides! :P

 

Sure you can buff nearby squads with Divination, but you can't use the Liber Heresius on a squad in a Dedicated Transport for the extra Scout Move.

 

It's a drawback, that's all I'm saying.

 

And really (as you have rightly mention the FoC already) the only one.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Ok, so an C:I with a Codex: Inq detachment to get 4 HQs with hellrifles and the previous "bunker" squad I mentioned ;)

 

But yes, it is a minor drawback.  Nothing is perfect and without downsides.  I just am going after the point that to really utilize "wonky" armies like the Inquisition, one must think outside the preconceived traditional arrangements we're used to.  Use the highly customizable squads in a new and different way that aren't like other armies more cookie cutter units.

[Gentlemanloser]

Sadly, that's not the case.

 

Unlike the new Codex: LotD which has this line;

 

 

You can include two Legion of the Damned detachments in your army if you wish, but one of these must be the army’s primary detachment.

 

C:I mentions nothing of the sort (Apart from this omission, they both use the same writing).

 

You can take it as a Primary *or*/*alternatively* as a special Inquisitorial detachment.

 

:(

[Inquisitor Fox]

Ahh...so they changed it.  Ah well.

 

So... you take a primary Codex: =][= and then ally a Grey Knights detachment, using Inquisitors as the HQs ;)

 

Edit: Although that does beg the question as to why Codex: =][= has the Inquisition as battle brothers with itself... curious...

[Gentlemanloser]

That it does...

 

Maybe, like the whole which FoC do we use, the 'original' codex (C:I) kind of assumed we would know you could ally C:I to C:I and actually with C:LotD, they decided to put it in print.

 

I donno with GW anymore.  It's just one inconsistency (yes, Knights can ally with *everyone*!  No, they can't...) after another.

 

To be honest, it's making things very difficult.

 

I'm tempted to just throw my hands i the air and scream 'fudge it', do what you will...

[Kenderleech]

You in fact, can take codex =I= primary and then take an inquisitorial detachment as well, plus a normal ally.  Plus a legion group.  Plus a squad of imperial knights.  Plus a fortfication. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

You in fact, can take codex =I= primary and then take an inquisitorial detachment as well

 

Would you mind quoting the rule for this?

 

The line that states this for LotD is absent form the Inquisition Codex.

 

Now you might say it's not necessary to state it, in which case *why* does the newer LotD Codex do so?

[Kenderleech]

"If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart. Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other detachments. Other detachments, such as allied detachments, additional primary detachments and fortifications can be taken normally. So, for example, you could field an army with an Imperial Guard primary detachment, an allied detachment of Space Marines, and an Inquisitorial detachment. You can include two Inquisitorial detachments in the same army if you wish, but one of these must be the army’s primary detachment."

 

 

the emperors will, including inqusitors in your army sub header, paragraph 2. 

[Gentlemanloser]

"alternatively"

 

No where does it state (unlike the new LotD Codex I quoted above) that you can take both at the same time.

 

Again, if the newer Codex seems fit to print that as a rule, then why is it not present in the earlier Codex?

[Kenderleech]

Are you expecting GW to be internally consistant?