Inquistion help?

[Gentlemanloser]

I don't think that's too much to ask for rules for a game system. ;)

 

It seems GW disagrees with me though. :(

[thade]

It's a complicated game which presents a LOT of options; more options means more interdependency on what is a necessarily larger and larger graph with an absolutely massive number of connecting edges. Honestly, my gut-feeling is that balancing 40k is an NP-Hard problem, so any requirement that it be balanced is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Games that are better balanced get that way by severely (compared to 40k) constraining your unit choices and customizations. If I wanted a more tournament-suited game, I'd suffer with Privateer Press. I want a game with a cool setting and potential for improv storytelling...it's hard to do better than Warhammer for that. I treat the game in my mind much the way I treat any tabletop roleplaying game. Narrative takes the top slot and the rules are just there to provide storytelling prompts.

It's also not a bad combat simulator because, frankly, war is seldom balanced. (One may even assert "Never" but absolutes are silly.) When you have two opposing forces and reasonable understanding of their assets, you might make up some kind of a system where an arbitrary "point" value is somehow associated with a foundational unit and used to compare power, but it really provides little value since - in the real world and on the 40k table - two forces with exactly equal "points" may surprise us all. 2500 points of Tau vs. 2500 points of Imperial Guard. Whatever the lists, the game will be very different if the Tau player goes all suits vs. all tanks, or the IG player goes all tanks vs. all air; very different if the table is utterly bear of terrain (a field) vs very very cluttered (a city ruin).

Points have always been a silly way to balance out something so complex as 40k, but really there's no other way, so they do their best. I wouldn't mind if they hired a few math geniuses to clean some things up and write an easier to follow rulebook but we have what we have.

[Gentlemanloser]

Thade, it would be easier/better if GW bought back the old formula they used to use.

 

Where basic things cost basic fixed amounts, and it didn't deviate.

 

So you knew how much T4 cost on a 1W mini over T3, and units were priced accordingly.

 

It's GW themselves who have broken this (by ignoring this and decrease points in an effort to force customers to spend more by buying more...), and we should not hand wave it away as an OK thing becuase 40k is complex.

 

It's as unbalanced as GW allow it to be, and no more. ;)

[boreas]

I'm not sure that would be better... That formula led to real problems (old GKs being a fair example). A [1W T4 3+ sv] model is not worth the same in all codex for all sorts of reasons. I think it might a good place to start a codex, but then good ol' playtesting should be the real way to adjust the final price.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

A [1W T4 3+ sv] model is not worth the same in all codex for all sorts of reasons.

 

Becuase of the presence of thing like free of cost FnP Bubbles giving you more bang for your buck out of your 1W, T4, 3+ Save minis. ;)

 

Apart from that (IC buffs that can be applies 'smartly', like SW Sagas), then there really isn't that much difference between Marine Codexes for what you get from a standard dude.

 

I'm ot saying any sort of standard wouldn't need to be tweaked.  But a standard is def needed.

 

Just take Warrior Accolytes with Bolters and Space Marine Scouts with Bolters.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think that would be expecting too much out of GW. Especially these days, it would seem they're uninterested in making Marines powerful. I can safely say the current Marine books are the weakest they've ever been, if you consider how 6th edition is panning out. Which is good for all the xenos players (except if you play DE or Tyranids). Who knows, maybe they're as sick of the Marine dominance as the players are. 

 

New IG are around the corner. We'll see how that goes. I'm hoping they don't smash them down to nothing, nerf Vendettas, Creed, etc, but IG have plenty of trash now, and their mech build from 5th is no longer as strong (still solid but HP and the general increase in guns that easily glance AV12 doesn't help). Blob Guard no longer works thanks to Heldrakes, Riptides and Ignore Cover everywhere. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh that's easy, Guard will get an IGnore Cover 'order' (psychic power without the penalties...).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

 

Oh that's easy, Guard will get an IGnore Cover 'order' (psychic power without the penalties...).

 

They already have an Order that makes you re-roll cover saves. Seeing as they're best buds with Inquisition, they can get Ignore Cover anyway now. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

Seeing as they're best buds with Inquisition, they can get Ignore Cover anyway now.

 

What have I missed?

 

Is this a one shot ability from the Liber Heresius?

[Kenderleech]

perfect timeing from divination

[Inquisitor Fox]

I definitely wouldn't say Guard are best buds with the Inquisition, so much as when an Inquisitor says "J.." the Guardsmen is already in the air hoping he picked the right direction ;)  I mean, we're the Inquisition... for the well being of the Imperium EVERYONE is expendable ;)  Kinda hard to make friends that way, but meh.. it works..

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I definitely wouldn't say Guard are best buds with the Inquisition, so much as when an Inquisitor says "J.." the Guardsmen is already in the air hoping he picked the right direction I mean, we're the Inquisition... for the well being of the Imperium EVERYONE is expendable Kinda hard to make friends that way, but meh.. it works..

I meant more like they're BB Allies, but yeah, that too haha ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

 

perfect timeing from divination

 

Ah.

 

Two random rolls (or three with Coteaz...).  It's not something I'd rely on. ;)

 

Now if C:I gave access to Ignore Cover consistently...  Oh my! :D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

wo random rolls (or three with Coteaz...). It's not something I'd rely on.

Now if C:I gave access to Ignore Cover consistently... Oh my!

Well we can't all be Tau mate ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

I dislike the Tau mini range, but I actually like the Giant Mecha that is the Riptide...

 

Is that wrong? ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I dislike the Tau mini range, but I actually like the Giant Mecha that is the Riptide...

Is that wrong?

No, the Riptide kit is probably the first battle suit kit I've liked too. Crisis have always been too blocky, Stealth Suits still need work, Broadsides need work as well. They're way too chunky, like Lego.

[Grand Master Caloth]

I like the old stealth suits... and the FW XV-89 crisis suit i like

[Gentlemanloser]

 

No, the Riptide kit is probably the first battle suit kit I've liked
too. Crisis have always been too blocky, Stealth Suits still need work,
Broadsides need work as well. They're way too chunky, like Lego.

 

GW missed a massive opportunity by not making the Tau more anime when they redid the Codex...

[Brother Tyler]

And we're done talking about filthy xenos Tau.

[playedsincedaemonhunters]

GK hard mode: I play stern.

[Venemox]

"alternatively"

 

No where does it state (unlike the new LotD Codex I quoted above) that you can take both at the same time.

 

Again, if the newer Codex seems fit to print that as a rule, then why is it not present in the earlier Codex?

 

iPad version says 'You can include two Inquisitorial detachments in the same army if you wish, but one of these must be the army’s primary detachment.'  It's on the 'Forces of the Inquisition' page, second paragraph of the 'Including Inquisitors in your Army'.  lst line.

[DinoDoc]

GK hard mode: I play stern.

Anything but Coteaz is GK hard mode given how they made the codex. ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

Mine must be out of date. /sigh

 

The entire section of mine;

 

 

INCLUDING INQUISITORS IN YOUR ARMY

When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a
special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment.

If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force
Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart.
Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other
detachments. Other detachments, such as allied detachments, additional primary
detachments and fortifications can be taken normally. So, for example, you could field an
army with an Imperial Guard primary detachment, an allied detachment of Space
Marines, and an Inquisitorial detachment.

The Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart has boxes corresponding to
different battlefield roles. Each black box is a choice you must take in order to include
this detachment as part of your army, whilst each grey box is a unit you can include as
part of this detachment.

If you take the Inquisitorial detachment as your primary detachment, then
Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands are scoring units.

[Heru]

Mine must be out of date. /sigh

 

The entire section of mine;

 

 

 

INCLUDING INQUISITORS IN YOUR ARMY

 

When you choose an army, Inquisitors may be taken as a primary detachment or as a

special form of allied detachment known as an Inquisitorial detachment.

 

If you take Inquisitors as a primary detachment, use the Inquisitorial detachment Force

Organisation chart instead of the primary detachment Force Organisation chart.

Alternatively, an army may include an Inquisitorial detachment in addition to any other

detachments. Other detachments, such as allied detachments, additional primary

detachments and fortifications can be taken normally. So, for example, you could field an

army with an Imperial Guard primary detachment, an allied detachment of Space

Marines, and an Inquisitorial detachment.

 

The Inquisitorial detachment Force Organisation chart has boxes corresponding to

different battlefield roles. Each black box is a choice you must take in order to include

this detachment as part of your army, whilst each grey box is a unit you can include as

part of this detachment.

 

If you take the Inquisitorial detachment as your primary detachment, then

Inquisitorial Henchmen Warbands are scoring units.

 

 

Just redownload for the updated version.

[Valerian]

I have a custom Grey Knight Brother Captain with daemonhammer and psycannon modeled on a Stern figure

 

Wait, you have a Brother Captain?  You sure about that?  You can't find a couple extra points in your list to make that guy worthwhile?

 

;)

 

V