Dread Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 So what does everyone think about using an Imperial Knight as ally to the sisters? I think that the Errant variant is perfect for that needed back up. Also, won't it be weird using a super heavy in a regular game? I've read thru the rules that they put out already in WD and don't really see it being over powered, I'm sure guass weapons will still eat it up. Anyhow, what are y'alls ideas? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Knights are great in that you can use the same model for any Imperial army as they're not directly tied to anyone. They're amazing models and should be quite potent too so maybe the question should be why wouldn't you use one with your Sisters? They're going to change the game quite a bit, so bouncing ideas around is a good plan but it seems like I'm repeating myself once more as Sisters are again well placed to weather the incoming storm. Your opponent takes a Knight and your plan doesn't really change - you're still going to close on the enemy and unleash the Emperor's wrath anyway except now you have a big, juicy and expensive fire magnet to pour the melta into. So maybe you'd like to take a few more meltas (Dominions are laughing, if they weren't already) but aside from target priorities it's not a big deal for Sisters. Exos could be useful for odd barrages maybe, but then you were taking a couple anyway right? Taking a Knight is the new bit though, normally change is in someone else's army list! It's expensive but good, adds some nice shooting and serious CC power so I suppose the question is what you're looking for. I think you can argue that for the same points you could do quite a bit with Sisters, but a Knight is likely a pretty good answer to the Wraithknights and Riptides that everyone seems to like. I'm definitely getting one, I love the model as well as tanks and walkers in general - the bigger the better too! It will see action with all my Imperial armies eventually, but that won't be for some time as I've sworn a mighty oath to complete my current projects before indulging. Hopefully someone can report back with experience soon :) It's not a Sisters model, but I'm pleased that GW has released a new model that we can use as much as other armies Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I don't have space in my army lists for a Knight, lol. Something like that just dilutes our power-house areas. I can't think of a points value below Apocalypse where a Knight would be a better choice than my entire Fast Attack and Heavy Support slot selections, which are about what it costs in points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The knight will change the way we play 40k. It's worth far more then it's point values suggest, and far more durable and powerful then most think. Keep in mind it's ignoring 50% of incoming shooting damage, ignores the damage chart (except for 6's), and has multiple remove models from play attacks. (Chainsword, stomp, explosion). it also moves 12", has move through cover, fear, smash (reroll armor pens), is relentless (can fire ordnance and still assault), can split fire as many times as it wants, and assault anything it shot at. Did I mention ALL of it's shooting attacks have strikedown? (halves your init if you are hit by it, and treat all movement as difficult). Oh, and it's got a str 10 hammer of wrath. Watch the price soar on these as demand outstrips supply. The only real way to deal with one is in Close combat, and when you succeed, there is a high probability the entire unit you attacked it with is removed from the table when it blows. I honestly think, it would make for an absolutely incredible sisters conversion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I think that what the Sisters really lack right now is a potent linchpin unit, something to hold the firing line together, something that can play aggressively and weather the storm. We don't have terminators, for example, and our Elites options are pretty anemic. But with an Imperial Knight, we can really fix that right up. It's huge, it's stompy, and it's durable. It's a lovely fire magnet to keep the enemy from feeling comfortable enough to harass our more vulnerable units, and its aggressive enough to make them pay for choosing to focus fire on our Troops... what's not to love? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Isn't the Ion Shield just on a single facing? You can be sure that facing will be the one with your biggest and best guns though... The list of special rules it has is quite bewildering super-heavy walkers are fearsome indeed, even in death. I also agree that it'd make for a great chance for some Sister modifications, if you wanted to tie it more to your army. It's going to be exciting to see what people do with it, both model and games wise and though I doubt you'll be seeing one every game it is definitely going to change your meta as soon as one turns up. Adapt or die, as the saying goes! It does raise another question though - where does Knight conversation happen on the B&C? Presumably that can just turn up in the appropriate topic if they're allied in etc, but would Knight primaries be the realm of the AdMech section? Seems appropriate to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I'm still on the fence about them. Unless we start playing more 2500+ games I may not buy one. I will counter them -- if I see one -- with Exorcists missiles, Dominions with melta, an Avenger Strike fighter and an allied Vendetta. In other words, with what I already have. Strike from multiple angles with units armed with multiple weapons that "roll a 6" armor pen 50% of the time and I think we can take it out with the appropriate amount of effort. It won't be a push over but then neither will it be invincible. The hardest part will be getting the needed firepower (about 700 points worth) focused on the Knight at the same time for a single turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Isn't the Ion Shield just on a single facing?Aye, that you choose the facing at the beginning of your opponents shooting phase. You'd really have to combo attack one from multiple directions to prevent the save. Still would be a pretty cool tactic. I think they are one of the more balanced new units. They're tough, but not impossible to take down, and their points cost is high...but given the right placement, they could really do some damage. Their warlord traits can also grant it will not die, and improve the shield to 3++. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 I don't think you'll be seeing them much until you get to significantly higher points values in which case you've likely got the points to play with to build effective counters. As Fib said, flyers will be a nice way to deliver some punch. Knights are powerful and expensive so they will likely be what makes or breaks games. If you can take an opponent's Knight out that's got to take the wind out of his sails, the potential explosion could be problematic though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 ignores the damage chart (except for 6's), wait .. what? I think I missed that part. Where is that coming from? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 It's a super heavy. The only damage result that effects it is a 6 on the damage chart. It ignores crew shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed, and immobilized results. If you happen to pen AND roll a 6, it just takes an additional D3 hull points in damage. It is not wrecked, nor explodes. It also ignores perm effects to it's armor. (scarb swarms do nothing). When it loses it's last hull point, it undergoes a Catastrophic damage chart explosion, using the Apocalyptic mega-blast marker. (15" inch blast marker). You roll on a chart to see what each ring of the blast marker does, then you roll scatter. Big Badda Boom http://i.imgur.com/1DV3FIu.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Is this from the new Apoc rules? We have been using these here. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/apoc6thupdate.pdf Movement halved on first Immobile, may attempt to repaire Weapon Destroyed, 3d6 charge range. et cetera, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This is from the escalation rules. Structure points no longer exist, and were eliminated in the recent updates to apoc and escalation. The pdf you linked to is quite old and outdated. They don't even have a direct link to it anymore off their downloads section. (7/20/12) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Well color me out of date. I guess I'll have to break down and buy a copy of Escalation soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Or wait until the rumored 6.5/7th edition comes out, which rolls all these rule sets into a single book of anger and applause. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Good idea. It will probably be at least that long until I start seeing and Knights on the table around here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Yup...and who knows what other changes are going to crop up by then. Keeping up with GW is almost a full time job. I can't imagine trying to run a tournament. I think I'd tear my hair out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 Funny you say that cause I got picked to set ours up on the 9th. But I think I'm going to use my sisters with a knight ally just for s n g's. I love the idea of having a giant model that has part of the holy trinity on it. Just need to figure paint on it and then play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 "Anger and applause" seems a good way of putting it. Like Fib I'm a bit out of date and it was a bit confusing at first, but if "7th" is an amalgamation of the current stuff then I will look into that. I'd rather not have to juggle books, but we'll see what happens. Scatter for a vehicle explosion seems a bit weird though, I'm assuming it's for a suitable game reason? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 "Instead of the usual procedure for exploding vehicles, removethe model and center the apocalyptic mega-blast marker (see Apocalyptic Weapons)over the location the destroyed model occupied; then roll for scatter (this representsthe vehicle tipping over or skidding out of control before exploding)." The blast is actually so large...it will auto hit the unit in B2B with the walker, even if it scatters 12. (as long as it doesn't scatter off the table). Those rings have different values in terms of strength though...so you realllllllly want it to scatter far. The center ring is a str D hit. I was almost thinking of an imperial walker as a huge penitent engine, with multiple repentant heretics strapped into it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Keep an eye out for badly damaged Knights suddenly deciding to get stuck in to your battle lines I'm also now imagining a Knight with loads of heretics strapped to it, sort of as low tech reactive armour. Anyone else keep calling them "Kunigits"? No? Just me then Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3605907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 The knight will change the way we play 40k. It's worth far more then it's point values suggest, and far more durable and powerful then most think. Keep in mind it's ignoring 50% of incoming shooting damage, ignores the damage chart (except for 6's), and has multiple remove models from play attacks. (Chainsword, stomp, explosion). it also moves 12", has move through cover, fear, smash (reroll armor pens), is relentless (can fire ordnance and still assault), can split fire as many times as it wants, and assault anything it shot at. Did I mention ALL of it's shooting attacks have strikedown? (halves your init if you are hit by it, and treat all movement as difficult). Oh, and it's got a str 10 hammer of wrath. Watch the price soar on these as demand outstrips supply. The only real way to deal with one is in Close combat, and when you succeed, there is a high probability the entire unit you attacked it with is removed from the table when it blows. I honestly think, it would make for an absolutely incredible sisters conversion. When you say it ignores the damage chart, do you still take away hull points, though? And can you still glance the thing to death? 6 hull points is a lot, but it isn't insane, so seems to me the thing can be taken down by weight of fire given its armour values. Although it is nice that all sisters have krak grenades so they can glance the thing to death in close combat. Oh man I am so looking forward to charging a knight with a DKoK Assault Brigade platoon. Glance the thing to death with 25x krak grenades to the rear armour, then laugh as they are all blown up and reappear via ongoing reserves my next turn. Very fitting actually. Reminds me of the scene in Dead Men Walking where a Kreiger with a krak grenade (pin pulled) jumps through the "door" of a monolith and blows it up from inside. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3606406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 That Monolith thing doesn't work, lol. Anyway, grenades always hit a Walker's front armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3606413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodemus Doloroso Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Yeah can't be done in-game but still a cool scene. I forgot that you guy walkers in the front. So much for krak grenades. That means only meltabombs, Repentias, and priest with eviscerator can hurt the things in close combat. That sucks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3606437 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ignores damage chart =... Ignores shaked, stunned, weapon destroyed, immobilized, wrecked, and explosion results. The only result it cares about is a 6 on the damage chart, which does D3 "additional" hull points of damage (in addition to the one the pen caused). That's it. Rolling anything else on the chart only results in it losing a hull point. Yes you can still glance it to death. Necrons will have a field day killing these things. Video of the size of the model if you fella's are interested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287365-sisters-and-knights/#findComment-3606460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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