Sisters and Knights

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah can't be done in-game but still a cool scene.

Doesn't work in fluff, either. The portal, um, doesn't lead to the inside of the Monolith.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Miko: ah yes, I had forgotten about that. Well that takes away greatly from the coolness of that scene. They should at least attempt to make Black Library books match the fluff. Le sigh.

 

Thanks for the link/video greggles.

 

Very nice model but I think I'm going to pass. I'm more of a meat and potatoes kind of guy (hence why I never bought into flyers) plus drawing necrons in a tourney is pretty much auto lose in that battle.

[ElectricPaladin]

 

Yeah can't be done in-game but still a cool scene.

Doesn't work in fluff, either. The portal, um, doesn't lead to the inside of the Monolith.

 

So, what happened is that as luck (or the guidance of the Emperor) would have it, the grenade blew up just as it was at the intersection of the monolith and wherever it goes, damaging the transpatial gateways on both end and causing an explosion that killed a bunch of Necrons on the other and and blew up the Monolith on this end.

 

Don't you dare touch my badass Sisters fluff. Ima cut you.

[*Furyou Miko]

Um, EP? It was a Kriegsman (Imperial Guard) who did that.

 

Definitely worthy of a noprize though!

[ElectricPaladin]

Um, EP? It was a Kriegsman (Imperial Guard) who did that.

Definitely worthy of a noprize though!

Derp derp derp.

[Dread]

DUN DUN DUN DUUUNNN!!!!!!

 

 

This is a really nice model. One of my favorites so far. The wraith Knight is just a bit taller but the IK is a lot bulkier. Got it primed and I have pushed all other paint work aside to paint this. Now just have to figure out the paint scheme I want. Hmm?

[vonny]

I think that's the real joy/nightmare with this model: There's so much opportunity for color schemes and freehanding.

[*Furyou Miko]

Oh, you should definitely paint it black in disruptive camo patterns, with red highlights.

[Dread]

I will take that under advisement Miko.

[Onisuzume]

Oh, you should definitely paint it black in disruptive camo patterns, with red highlights.

I'd say black without the camo, and red&gold highlights.

Or just gold highlights.

In all honesty, though, that site has tons of examples for possible colour schemes.

[*Furyou Miko]

Nah, black camo looks really good, although I'll admit it's hard to photograph;

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/KaguraHakubi/IK%20and%2040K/My%20Projects/Valk1.jpg

[Dread]

I found some patterns for air brushing today at walmart of all places. They are various animal patterns and I plan to use them with various tones of black on the main armor with boltgun trim and splashes of red in some of the areas like the banner and possibly knee caps and such. Some gold trim on badges and such. I really like the look on the flyer too.

[*Furyou Miko]

I achieved it by painting swirls of matt and gloss varnish over the bare plastic as an undercoat, then applying a layer of Chaos Black, then doing more swirled matt and gloss varnish over the top to create the patterns. :)

[Fibonacci]

I couldn't resist any longer ...

[march10k]

 

Isn't the Ion Shield just on a single facing?

Aye, that you choose the facing at the beginning of your opponents shooting phase. You'd really have to combo attack one from multiple directions to prevent the save. Still would be a pretty cool tactic. 

You mean like taking three exorcists and spreading them out laterally?  I already do that to avoid making it easy for the enemy to deal with them by sending his warmachine hunters all to the same spot...  So 3D6 exorcist missiles, and a random one of those D6 gets an invul? ROFL.

 

Knights are also easy meat for thundernators, repentia (here, the "the resulting explosion kills all" claim, as opposed to with the thundernators, actually applies...is it worth it?  Let's see...even ten repentia versus a kinght...not even a question!) and any form of meltaspam, not to mention lance spam and a host of other things.  Really, they're no harder to deal with than a baneblade.  They're a true AYEIOB, the single model deathstar.  I'd rather face one than field one...which is a shame, they're really awesome to look at.

[Naminé]

I can't decide if I like the model or not...

Maybe when I see one in minustorum colours...

[ElectricPaladin]

 

 

Isn't the Ion Shield just on a single facing?

Aye, that you choose the facing at the beginning of your opponents shooting phase. You'd really have to combo attack one from multiple directions to prevent the save. Still would be a pretty cool tactic. 

You mean like taking three exorcists and spreading them out laterally?  I already do that to avoid making it easy for the enemy to deal with them by sending his warmachine hunters all to the same spot...  So 3D6 exorcist missiles, and a random one of those D6 gets an invul? ROFL.

 

Knights are also easy meat for thundernators, repentia (here, the "the resulting explosion kills all" claim, as opposed to with the thundernators, actually applies...is it worth it?  Let's see...even ten repentia versus a kinght...not even a question!) and any form of meltaspam, not to mention lance spam and a host of other things.  Really, they're no harder to deal with than a baneblade.  They're a true AYEIOB, the single model deathstar.  I'd rather face one than field one...which is a shame, they're really awesome to look at.

 

I think you're underestimating the Knight's durability. Just because it's possible to one-round it with a squad of terminators doesn't mean that it's a sure thing, or even a likely thing. Let's math-hammer it. Of the 10 attacks, the most likely scenario is that 5 hit. Each of those attacks is going to need to roll a 5 to glance and a 6 to penetrate, so assuming average dice you'll be lucky to get even a single penetrating hit. And then, you need to roll at least a 4 in order to get the Explodes! result - otherwise all you do is cost the thing a single Hull Point.

 

I'm not saying the things are invulnerable... I'm just saying that just because it's theoretically possible to two-shot it with Strength 8 attacks doesn't mean that it's definitely going to happen. In fact, it's quite unlikely.

[Grey Mage]

Well, and remember the Knight has an invulnerable ignoring I4 set of 3 attacks.... there wont be a full squad of TDA by the time they get to strike.

 

Regardless however... I honestly think the double-shot battle cannon is a better buy for the notoriously short-ranged sisters. Turns it into a real support piece, able to reach out and touch the entire field. Also gives you more anti-horde firepower, which is always nice. For a 5pt difference I find it hard to turn down.|



Edit: Y'all do know the D-weapons now ignore invulnerable saves, right? So Hammernators are no better than regular TDA against a Knight? And just as SOL when it blows up?

[march10k]

 

 

 

Isn't the Ion Shield just on a single facing?

Aye, that you choose the facing at the beginning of your opponents shooting phase. You'd really have to combo attack one from multiple directions to prevent the save. Still would be a pretty cool tactic. 

You mean like taking three exorcists and spreading them out laterally?  I already do that to avoid making it easy for the enemy to deal with them by sending his warmachine hunters all to the same spot...  So 3D6 exorcist missiles, and a random one of those D6 gets an invul? ROFL.

 

Knights are also easy meat for thundernators, repentia (here, the "the resulting explosion kills all" claim, as opposed to with the thundernators, actually applies...is it worth it?  Let's see...even ten repentia versus a kinght...not even a question!) and any form of meltaspam, not to mention lance spam and a host of other things.  Really, they're no harder to deal with than a baneblade.  They're a true AYEIOB, the single model deathstar.  I'd rather face one than field one...which is a shame, they're really awesome to look at.

 

I think you're underestimating the Knight's durability. Just because it's possible to one-round it with a squad of terminators doesn't mean that it's a sure thing, or even a likely thing. Let's math-hammer it. Of the 10 attacks, the most likely scenario is that 5 hit. Each of those attacks is going to need to roll a 5 to glance and a 6 to penetrate, so assuming average dice you'll be lucky to get even a single penetrating hit. And then, you need to roll at least a 4 in order to get the Explodes! result - otherwise all you do is cost the thing a single Hull Point.

 

I'm not saying the things are invulnerable... I'm just saying that just because it's theoretically possible to two-shot it with Strength 8 attacks doesn't mean that it's definitely going to happen. In fact, it's quite unlikely.

 

...except that you're not giving credit for the charge bonus...make it 15 attacks, and you've got an average of 7.5 hits, yielding 2.5 glances/pens, and the pens are going to be +1 on the damage table.  You're also assuming that the knight has all six hull points when a turn one scenario is almost literally impossible, so if killing the knight is your focus, then by the time the termies charge, you're likely looking at 3-4 HP and perhaps a weapon destroyed, if you haven't already gotten a lucky pen.  An average of 3 HP (converting the average outcome of one pen into a bonus HP, since this roughly approximates the chance of an outright kill from the pen) is pretty fantastic, considering the difference in price between a thundernator squad and a knight!  All things considered, thundernators are a fantastic answer to knights.  

 

That said, this is a sisters page, so let's focus on how knights can only apply their invulnerable save to 1/3 of the ten exorcist missiles that start raining in from all angles on turn one...and how those missiles, if they pen, have a 50% chance of an outright kill!  Point is, Sisters have an excellent answer to the threat, and should rejoice if the enemy ties up so many of his precious points in a single model...makes it that much easier for us to deprive him of his (consequently weaker) complement of scoring units!

[march10k]

Well, and remember the Knight has an invulnerable ignoring I4 set of 3 attacks.... there wont be a full squad of TDA by the time they get to strike.

 

Regardless however... I honestly think the double-shot battle cannon is a better buy for the notoriously short-ranged sisters. Turns it into a real support piece, able to reach out and touch the entire field. Also gives you more anti-horde firepower, which is always nice. For a 5pt difference I find it hard to turn down.|

 

 

 

Edit: Y'all do know the D-weapons now ignore invulnerable saves, right? So Hammernators are no better than regular TDA against a Knight? And just as SOL when it blows up?

I had forgotten that D weapons ignore storm shields...so I suppose that a termie or two will die before they swing.  Maybe this is a plot to bring back the chainfist?  Why does the explosion of the knight ignore the shields?  I'm not familiar with that one...

 

Anyway, allied IG tanks might be a better buy if you're looking for pieplates?  Besides which, horde control is not something that sisters should lack, if they don't sell out to meltaspam (which is so 5th edition!)

[Fibonacci]

I don't think units in assault would be the way to go at all.  Especially with units that have to go at Initiative 1.

 

------

 

So my friend and I just tried this out at 1500 points.  He has a DA army so pletny of TH/SS

(If I remember correctly)

Beial

5 DW Knights

2X 5 DA terms with TH/SS and CML

10 Devistators with plasma cannon

10 Tacticals with Las Cannon

Nephilem

 

I took Celestine

Canoness

Command Squad with heavy flamers in an Immolator

2X 5 BSS with flamers in Rhinos

6 Dominions with 4 meltaguns in a Repressor

2X Exorcists

Imperial Knight

 

It did not turn out well for the Dark Angels.

 

One thing of note, you pick a facing for the Ion shield but like any walker, all facings are not equal.  The Knight is wide!  It is easy to keep the front facing the bulk of the enemy and mega-melta anyone that gets behind. 

 

Once someone gets into assault range, the difference between S8 at I1 and a D-wepon at initiative was ... kind of what we both though would happen.  The best he did was when I rolled 4 ones on the damage chart and he had 3 terminators in base contact at I1.  They caused one HP loss but got stomped 3 times for their effort.

[Fibonacci]

...so I suppose that a termie or two will die before they swing. 

:lol:

 

Yeah. You can say that.

With each hit you don't roll to wound.  You roll to see how many unsaveable wounds the hit caused.

 

It is a D strength melee weapon.  Getting into melee with it is playing to it's strength.

[greggles]

Though the knight is strongest in melee, that is when it is most vulnerable. The ion shield does not work against CC attacks, only shooting attacks. It's just AV13 vs incoming damage in CC.

 

Of course it will kill an average of 2 things at init 4, and then another 2-4 at init 1. It's not really the unit you'd want to throw terminators at. Something like wyches with haywire grenades? Sure. Huge swarms of fearless wounds? Sure. Wraithknight? No.

[Grey Mage]

 

Well, and remember the Knight has an invulnerable ignoring I4 set of 3 attacks.... there wont be a full squad of TDA by the time they get to strike.

 

Regardless however... I honestly think the double-shot battle cannon is a better buy for the notoriously short-ranged sisters. Turns it into a real support piece, able to reach out and touch the entire field. Also gives you more anti-horde firepower, which is always nice. For a 5pt difference I find it hard to turn down.|

 

 

 

Edit: Y'all do know the D-weapons now ignore invulnerable saves, right? So Hammernators are no better than regular TDA against a Knight? And just as SOL when it blows up?

I had forgotten that D weapons ignore storm shields...so I suppose that a termie or two will die before they swing.  Maybe this is a plot to bring back the chainfist?  Why does the explosion of the knight ignore the shields?  I'm not familiar with that one...

 

Anyway, allied IG tanks might be a better buy if you're looking for pieplates?  Besides which, horde control is not something that sisters should lack, if they don't sell out to meltaspam (which is so 5th edition!)

And might become 6th edition... the meta pendulum swings, and players follow like lemmings :p

 

D-strength things ignore invulnerable saves, the central blast of a dying superheavy is always D-strength, and sometimes more of it is ipretty potent too...

[*Furyou Miko]

Stolen Ovion's maths on this one from another board. Repentia murderise Knights. :)

If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be. 
If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though. 

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them: 
16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight. 


In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds. 
The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them. 
1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM. 

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3HP, but chances are it'll still be alive. 
And locked in combat. 
And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it. 
3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead. 


And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HPdamage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage). 

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight. 
5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.