Sisters and Knights

[march10k]

...and I run two rhinoloads of combat strippers!  ~happydance~  (naturally, I expect my three exorcists to kill the knight -there is only one of them, right?- before they get there)

[Rasp]

Coming from a long time fantasy player, all these super units remind me if fantasy big monsters. The problem isn't whether you can kill them or not. The problem is you have to devote a lot of your army, or effort, to do so. Leaving the rest of his army free.

 

It was always "you can just kill the big thing by doing X, Y, & Z." Yes, but what is the other 1700 hundred points of his army doing why I do that?

 

At least in 40k, it seems to me, that the big baddies are usually priced somewhat appropriately. Better that fantasy used to be comparatively.

 

I just don't care for bigger bang for your points über creatures/vehicles/characters. In fantasy, I wanted army vs army. Not army vs one guy. I feel the same in 40k. I want squads fighting squads. I want WW2 city fighting with lasers and robots. Not a Godzilla movie.

 

Oh, I went all ranty. Sorry.

 

Rasp

[ElectricPaladin]

Coming from a long time fantasy player, all these super units remind me if fantasy big monsters. The problem isn't whether you can kill them or not. The problem is you have to devote a lot of your army, or effort, to do so. Leaving the rest of his army free.

 

It was always "you can just kill the big thing by doing X, Y, & Z." Yes, but what is the other 1700 hundred points of his army doing why I do that?

 

At least in 40k, it seems to me, that the big baddies are usually priced somewhat appropriately. Better that fantasy used to be comparatively.

 

I just don't care for bigger bang for your points über creatures/vehicles/characters. In fantasy, I wanted army vs army. Not army vs one guy. I feel the same in 40k. I want squads fighting squads. I want WW2 city fighting with lasers and robots. Not a Godzilla movie.

 

Oh, I went all ranty. Sorry.

 

Rasp

 

The main problem in 40k is that 40k units are so much more mobile than they are in Fantasy. A Fantasy deathstar is still pretty much limited to moving quickly in a straight line, moving slowly laterally, and maybe being teleported across the board if you're lucky. Only a few Fantasy units - skirmishers, fast cavalry - can do anything different, and those units are pretty rare, and come with their own limitations.

[Rasp]

True. One of the many things that makes 40k more fun is the fact that many units in an army can deal with big nasties (obviously some better than others).

 

Any unit in my Sisters army can kill a tank if I build them to. But what I fear is the escalation of these uber units that break that mold.

[ElectricPaladin]

Anyway, to be honest, the only thing that really scares me when it comes to fielding a Knight is a unit full of meltas that can drop behind my Knight and pour a ton of Armorbane into it. Sternguard with meltaguns and a combi-melta? Even worse, trueborn in one of those fast skimmer transports? Vicious.

 

Nothing else really bothers me.

[Dread]

Sorry took me a bit to come back to this conversation. My one outing with the knight and my sisters was a disaster. CSM lord rolled up with a plague marine body guard and he b-slapped my knight like a rag doll. He hit three times with a power fist and then rolled 3 6's, the scatter moved so far that only the outer ring hit anything. But I won't stop trying, paid the money(lemming here) and will use it with my girls, the purpose I bought it for anyway. Hope to get pics of mine up soon as it's painted. Can't wait to see others too.

 

ps. I have to say that I actually like the fantasy rules better, but that's just me. 6th ed 40k just mucked up what was finally starting to do good and now has some pretty bad mechanical problems, I'm just saying in my opinion, but I keep on playing anyways since I enjoy both systems.

 

And almost forgot, Fib can't wait to see yours painted, I think I am gonna do the martyrd lady devotional on the banner and possibly one shoulder pad to show his alliegence to the sisterhood.

[Fibonacci]

And almost forgot, Fib can't wait to see yours painted, I think I am gonna do the martyrd lady devotional on the banner and possibly one shoulder pad to show his alliegence to the sisterhood.

I am still trying to figure out how I want to paint it.  It will be painted to fit Order of the Sacred Rose, but I'm not sure how.

 

Sacred Rose has white armor, black robes, red lining and red weapons.  The understructure is of course steel and brass fittings so this is what I am working on now.  I am thinking of white armor plates with red edging.  The lower legs will be divided black and white so I can put the white roses on the black half and am Imperial eagle on the white part.  Same with the shoulders. 

 

What's really stumping me is how to paint the chainsword.  Red with black trim?  That's not much contrast but the raised edges on the main body will be black.  I am thinking about doing all the accents in brass to match the pipes and tanks on the melta.

[Naminé]

Yellow and black hazard striping? :p  It's very 'mechanicus' old skool.

[march10k]

I prefer fantasy, too...mostly because you have to plan your maneuver three turns ahead while predicting your opponent's movement four turns ahead.  It's kind of like something Storm Shadow said in a comic book after #$%-slapping some poor slob (paraphrasing): "The master swordsman knows where his feet will land at the end of the fight.  The novice doesn't think to wonder."  I play 90% 40k because that's where the opponents are, but I'd play 60% fantasy if I could.  It's much harder to outmaneuver your opponent when his infantry units don't have a facing and everything moves 6"/turn and shoots.

 

As for monsters...well, I don't see much difference between the two systems.  WFB monsters mostly seem to follow 40k rules in that they change facing freely.  You only need to think one phase ahead (to shooting/magic), and maybe one player turn ahead (enemy charges) with them, unlike your infantry blocks.  And I don't mind monsterhammer, it gives my great cannons something to do :D

[Grey Mage]

...and I run two rhinoloads of combat strippers!  ~happydance~  (naturally, I expect my three exorcists to kill the knight -there is only one of them, right?- before they get there)

There can be up to three...

 

And its not stomp OR D, its D and then later stomp. Like a fantasy stomp attack.

[xFallenx]

Stomp: At Initiative 1 does a D3(3” Template) stomp attack. Roll a d6 for the stomp attack result: 2-5 does a S6 AP 4 hit. If you roll more than one stomp attack you can place the template anywhere touching prior templates, including right on top of one another. On a roll of 6 each model, even partials, are auto removed from play (No save of any kind, goodbye invuln).

[Fibonacci]

I can't help but notice it looks like a large battlemech.  And just like the ol' ERPPC to the head, the Knight can be killed by a single lucky terminator with a Cyclone Missile Launcher or something similar.

 

I think that fighting against them we are in good shape.  AP1 weapons all over the place.  Fighting with one in our army will certianly take the heat off of our Exorcists :)

[march10k]

 

...and I run two rhinoloads of combat strippers!  ~happydance~  (naturally, I expect my three exorcists to kill the knight -there is only one of them, right?- before they get there)

There can be up to three...

 

 

Aye, three would be tough...but it would also gut the enemy list, and expensive single models that can be killed by a lucky missile (and ours need far less luck on the damage table!) aren't really the best idea...I would love to face three knights...three widely dispersed exorcists and two rhinoloads of repentia would make short work of them!  To be sure, three would be as cheesy as three wraithknights or riptides, so they'd roll over a wide variety of lists, but since knights are AV-based, not toughness based, I think we're uniquely suited to be the one codex that they dread facing.

[Dread]

Stomp!! Arg! I forgot that part. Oh well, next time I won't. Thanks for that.

[Grey Mage]

Well... two lucky missiles.

You get one HP off for the penetrating hit, then another D3 for the explodes.... and it has Six, so its 2-3 missiles rolling a six on the table.

[*Furyou Miko]

Yeah, Superheavies are immune to damage charts. Sigh.

[greggles]

Super heavies that aren't lord of wars are the new MC's of 6.5/7th edition. Mark my words, they'll be everywhere, and in multiple codexes.

[Fibonacci]

Well... two lucky missiles.

 

CML fires two missiles.  One lucky terminator, two lucky missiles, two lucky penitration rolls and two unlucky ion shield rolls if you want to count them all up.

[Collective Consciousness]

Stolen Ovion's maths on this one from another board. Repentia murderise Knights. :)

 

 

If it charges THEM, then sure, that's probably 1 dead. I'll try and avoid the Mistress buying it so she can tank some Stomp if need be.

If it uses the D weapon, that's 1-3 dead, this is a good result. We'll assume the average of 2 though.

Chances are, it won't be using the D-Weapon to try and wipe out the entire squad, which is even better for us, as that leaves a full EIGHT repentia to strike at the same time as it if it charged them:

16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight.

In turn, the Stomp is likely to have 2 small templates and hit 4 Repentia each, and cause 5.556 wounds.

The Superior can soak 3 of those wounds (save 2, die 1), leaving 2 to probably die with only a 6+ save to save them.

1 dead titan, 4 dead Repentia, 1 Dead Superior, when IT, charged THEM.

If it DID use the D-Weapon, then you'll only get 6 left for 12 attacks, so 1 glance and 2.5 pens (3.5), you MIGHT get an Explodes for another 1-3HP, but chances are it'll still be alive.

And locked in combat.

And then you get to make a further 6-10 attacks in the next assault phase and destroy it.

3-5 Repentia left in this case, titan still dead.

And if the Repentia charge, at full strength - 36 attacks, 18 hits, 3 glances, 7.5 pens, 2.5 explodes for a further 5 HP damage, AKA - 15.5 HPdamage. (If the Titan goes for StrD instead of Stomping they'll still do 12.16 HP damage).

3-4 charging Repentia is enough to kill a Knight.

5-6 to be sure incase it StrDs you instead of stomping.

Thank god someone says Maths right.

 

Yes the Maths work fine but how do you manage to execute this charge? The titan moves twice as fast and has guns that will cripple/kill the squad in one shot.

 

Super heavies that aren't lord of wars are the new MC's of 6.5/7th edition. Mark my words, they'll be everywhere, and in multiple codexes.

Can't wait to see the DEldar one... Sigh

[Fibonacci]

Wait ... too many old rules running through my head so forgive me if I am wrong ... I thought Super Heavies were immune to Armorbane.

 

You get double dice from melta but the chainfists and eviscerators will only roll one die each.
 

[edit]
Something seems off ...
"16 attacks, hitting on 4's will mean 8 hits, 1.33 glances and 3.33 pens (4.66HP so far), then 1/3 of those pens should be an Explodes, causing +2HP damage, for a total of 6.66 HP damage and 1 dead knight."
 

Assuming I am remembering old rules and that Repentia roll two dice for penitration tests:
Starting at 8 hits.  Repentia are S3 base and that is doubeled to S6. They need 6 to glance and 7+ to pen. Rolling two dice, there are 5 ways to roll exactly 6. 5/36 = 13.88% of the rolls will be 6.

There are 21 possible ways to roll a 7 or more. 55.56% of the rolls will be 7 or greater.

With 8 hits you will see 1.1 glances and 4.44 pens.

On resolving stomps:
33.3% will remove all under the marker 33.3% will remove nothing and 33.33% will take some hits. Assuming the 4 models inder the template as given ...
 

4/3 go away; 4/3 take a S6 hit which becomes (4/3)*(5/6) wounds = 20/18 wounds = 10/9 wounds. Put on the Mistress for (10/9)*(1/3) unsaved wounds or 10/27 unsaved wounds. Add them all together for 1.7 casualties.

So I am coming up with more HP damage caused and fewer repentia killed.

[*Furyou Miko]

I haen't read this version of Apocalypse, one of the reasons I'm using Ovion's maths. ^^;

 

Of course it's maths. It's short for mathematics.

[march10k]

 

 

 

 

Yes the Maths work fine but how do you manage to execute this charge? The titan moves twice as fast and has guns that will cripple/kill the squad in one shot.

 

 

 

~sigh~  I guess if you have to ask, it must be impossible.  I would do it by having two, not one, squad of repentia, and mounting them in rhinos, which my standard list actually already does.  Assuming that we're talking about more than one knight (otherwise, three exorcists spread out laterally is more than enough to handle the threat!), that is.  And assuming that the other player is actually afraid of repentia and chooses to kill them instead of killing (ooh, power armor...scary) battle sisters instead, or targeting vehicles, for that matter.  Only then do you really need two units of them (spread out so he can't avoid both) to ensure success.  Anyway, it's 40k.  There is no "easy button" to push for automatic victory.  The point is that we have answers to knights that other armies lack.  Even if they only force the knight to run away, that's a victory, because it gives the exorcists more time to continue pummeling them.

[Fibonacci]

Base coat is done. I just gave it a gloss coat and will start on decals tomorrow.

[Dread]

Wow Fib, looks great. Now I have to step it up.

[*Furyou Miko]

I think the English have the last say on what the English language should be march

I quite agree! It's the Queen's English for me, the American sort has been bastardized by the political correctness police to the point where the only "proper" pronoun is "he/she and/or it," and that gets soooo repetitive and tiresome, doesn't it? Especially when the acceptable alternative "they" IS NOT A FLIPPING SINGULAR!!!!

>Interestingly, in a lot of ways, American English is a lot closer to the root language than British English is - Because America is geographically isolated, its language has stayed very stable, while British English has been affected by all kinds of foreigners.

Color (colour?) me skeptical. American English has been greatly influenced by a ridiculous variety of immigrants. Whereas the British colonized others and spread English around the globe, America took in hobos and nere-do-wells from the entire globe, and they all influenced the development of American English. JMHO, YMMV!

*moderator hat*

Please refrain from complaining about political correctness. This is not the forum for it.

*Frater hat*

Incidentally, 'They' as a singular dates back to at least the 1700s, so it's just as valid as the generic 'he', without risking offending nice people like your moderators. :)

That Knight looks awesome, the colour scheme has transferred really well.