Blood Angel Scout Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Marshall:They're in a short, think it's called the Divine Adortrice or something similar but is the story of the brothers gaining their knights. Would've liked to seen more of Horus's exploits while he's on the Obsidian path Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Marshall:They're in a short, think it's called the Divine Adortrice or something similar but is the story of the brothers gaining their knights. Would've liked to seen more of Horus's exploits while he's on the Obsidian path It'll probably end up a novella like Lorgar's venture into the Eye of Terror. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Given the title, I actually thought Vengeful Spirit would be like the Emperor vs Horus. But now that I know what its about - it sounds even better given that its not 'old' plot. Will likely buy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 WoT:, I had the same thought while reading that passage though from the afterword, not sure if it would be written or at least, not by McNeil. I'm wondering if Horus did actually "win" or if it is a route for Chaos to manipulate/control Horus into believing he owns the power like the Emperor does, due to the previous stories where it shows he has his own plan, not "Wishes of the Gods" . This could be the case, as if he had won it outright, then there would be no reason why the Four could abandon him at the end as they can't take it back from the Emperor or they would've done it already? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 WoT:, I had the same thought while reading that passage though from the afterword, not sure if it would be written or at least, not by McNeil. I'm wondering if Horus did actually "win" or if it is a route for Chaos to manipulate/control Horus into believing he owns the power like the Emperor does, due to the previous stories where it shows he has his own plan, not "Wishes of the Gods" . This could be the case, as if he had won it outright, then there would be no reason why the Four could abandon him at the end as they can't take it back from the Emperor or they would've done it already? They had nothing they could take back from the Emperor. If Chaos is to be believed, and there are all the standard reasons why we should not, the Emperor bargained for knowledge, not power. Power given can be taken back, but knowledge is forever. I'm sure the relevant knowledge is still in the Emperor's hidden base in the mountain. The problem is everybody who knows about that base is either dead or incapacitated, and ten millennia of abandonment can't have done it any favors. Even if intact with the geneseed lost and corrupted you'd have to understand that research to harvest its fruits, and that's a mighty task for a less than Primarch-level intellect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Deliverance Lost showed that the base was in working order... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Doesn't the new HH book 3 say that the VIth Legion were on par with the Sons of Horus and Iron Warriors? This would mean that they were not as devastated on Prospero as previously thought and thus Russ' idea that they were still a credible threat to hunt down the traitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3668811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Angel Scout Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Randian: It was more than knowledge the Emperor took, that's the whole point of the story.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Last time on Batman the Horus Heresy I am Horus. How dare the Emperor claim godhood!! Meanwhile ...Yeah... The Emperor is a god. I gotta be one too to when I face him cause I'm not ready now. I mean I am so much better than him and more worthy. It is..just that..he's a god and I'm not. Why exactly is he angry with the Emperor again? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The Space Wolves had the numbers of the IW and SoH prior[\i] to Prospero and the fight against the Alpha Legion. Last time on Batman the Horus Heresy I am Horus. How dare the Emperor claim godhood!! Meanwhile ...Yeah... The Emperor is a god. I gotta be one too to when I face him cause I'm not ready now. I mean I am so much better than him and more worthy. It is..just that..he's a god and I'm not. Why exactly is he angry with the Emperor again? IIRC, because he didn't get a statue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Last time on Batman the Horus Heresy I am Horus. How dare the Emperor claim godhood!! Meanwhile ...Yeah... The Emperor is a god. I gotta be one too to when I face him cause I'm not ready now. I mean I am so much better than him and more worthy. It is..just that..he's a god and I'm not. Why exactly is he angry with the Emperor again? I believe that this is a classic case of what Tvtropes would term Motive Decay. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I still think Horus has a chaotic hood over his eyes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The Space Wolves had the numbers of the IW and SoH prior[\i] to Prospero and the fight against the Alpha Legion. Last time on Batman the Horus Heresy I am Horus. How dare the Emperor claim godhood!! Meanwhile ...Yeah... The Emperor is a god. I gotta be one too to when I face him cause I'm not ready now. I mean I am so much better than him and more worthy. It is..just that..he's a god and I'm not. Why exactly is he angry with the Emperor again? IIRC, because he didn't get a statue. Well, maybe Mr. Self-Fulfilling Prophecy would have gotten a statue if he hadn't rebelled against the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3669833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thing is, did we ever really know what the motivation was? Wasnt it always 'he went mad' aka a Wizard did it? I dont think he's had much face time, and maybe I missed it in an Audio or something, but I never thought we got a reason like with Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Well, finally finished, it never did grab me. It wasnt terrible at all, and in the end I actually enjoyed lots of it, it just didnt grab me by the throat and make me want to give up sleep to finish it. No manly tears where shed. So was it amazing, no, but was it solid and would I recommend it? Sure, if you enjoy the series. Likes. 1. Little Horus. I really liked him in this book, and found him to be a great character to experience the story through. Thought he was well done. 2. Severian. Grew on me. Hes a bad ass, but not a 'omg I'm a Ninja in power armour' Raven Guard badass. Even the Raven Guard is far more in line with reality compared to the last Raven Guard we got from McNeill. 3. Horus. I liked that we didnt get in his head that much. McNeill mentions thats intentional. I'm ok with it, as he still has room to grow. I think he was portrayed well here. Dislikes 1. Wolves as Executioners, two counts. One with Russ, one with Bror. This is simply bad comedy at this point guys, someone please have this dropped, its just so trite at this point. Does anyone other than Wolves fan's think this is worth the continual ink it gets? Does it add anything? Someone convince me, please. 2. The Angels. Not a fan of their contribution to the book. Waiting for ADB to write about Amit. MAKE IT SO. 3. Thats about it. I wasnt grabbed much by the Death Guard, however liked that if anything they can hang their hats on being dependable. Its clear Horus looks at the DG and IW as his rocks to hold his back, and do whats asked, when asked. The fall of House Devine was well done I thought, and a solid enough arc throughout the book. Fulgrim's contribution was also understated in that process, but I enjoyed how it was all done, and the Titan kill was solid, as obviously it needs to die, but its contributions and takedown where epic enough. The Perpetual contribution was good. The throw backs to the fact the Emperor has been around, and there are those who have been part of his epic quest from the beginning is enjoyable to me. The massive amount of casualties, also good. On all sides. This was war, and the body count was high. Bring on Terra! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Likes. 1. Little Horus. I really liked him in this book, and found him to be a great character to experience the story through. Thought he was well done. 2. Severian. Grew on me. Hes a bad ass, but not a 'omg I'm a Ninja in power armour' Raven Guard badass. Even the Raven Guard is far more in line with reality compared to the last Raven Guard we got from McNeill. 3. Horus. I liked that we didnt get in his head that much. McNeill mentions thats intentional. I'm ok with it, as he still has room to grow. I think he was portrayed well here. Dislikes 1. Wolves as Executioners, two counts. One with Russ, one with Bror. This is simply bad comedy at this point guys, someone please have this dropped, its just so trite at this point. Does anyone other than Wolves fan's think this is worth the continual ink it gets? Does it add anything? Someone convince me, please. 2. The Angels. Not a fan of their contribution to the book. Waiting for ADB to write about Amit. MAKE IT SO. 3. Thats about it. I wasnt grabbed much by the Death Guard, however liked that if anything they can hang their hats on being dependable. Its clear Horus looks at the DG and IW as his rocks to hold his back, and do whats asked, when asked. The fall of House Devine was well done I thought, and a solid enough arc throughout the book. Fulgrim's contribution was also understated in that process, but I enjoyed how it was all done, and the Titan kill was solid, as obviously it needs to die, but its contributions and takedown where epic enough. The Perpetual contribution was good. The throw backs to the fact the Emperor has been around, and there are those who have been part of his epic quest from the beginning is enjoyable to me. The massive amount of casualties, also good. On all sides. This was war, and the body count was high. Bring on Terra! If you don't mind me asking 1. What role do the Blood Angels play? 2. How is Severian portrayed as a badass. Is he Terran or Cthonian? 3. How do the Perpetuals contribute to the story? 4. What is House Devine all about? Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 As for Severian: I honestly felt it was recycled material. Severian read like Sharrowkyn, minus any mention of the wraithslip, and the encounter with Loken read like his encounter with Lucius. The details were obviously different, but the whole thing just gave off a strong deja vu vibe. Haven't finished yet, so maybe there is a later mention that is more redeemable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Not a problem at all! Many Spoilers within, dont click if you dont like it folks! I found Severian quite different in the end, but maybe its the fact his abilities are downplayed compared to Sharrowkyn that I liked. 1. They where stationed on Molech, I feel I must have missed a short somewhere, because it's implied that the unit/commander has previously given in to the Red Thirst, and he's got a bit of a deathwish. They dont really do much of anything, other than charge into the core of the Warmasters army at the major battle, face down the Red Angel (possessed Apothocary from Fear to Tread) and resist its urging to become 'blood letters'. Then they off themselves instead of giving in. Literally they ram their swords into their heads, chin to crown....good job guys. 2. Cthonian through and through is the implication for sure. Described as super deadly, one of those upper echelon warriors in my opinion in the vein of Abbadon, Sigismund, and so on. I had a hope that he would escape on his own when it looked like it was curtains for the group but no need. He's great, knows it, and has that 'you need me more than I need you' feel, which I always enjoy personally. 3. A female was waiting on Molech, had been there to prevent anyone from tampering with the Emperors previous work there, and had apparently killed over the centuries 100+ cultists, seekers, or misguided folks who wanted to dig into what the Emperor had done, he had been there to become a God by stealing from or cheating the Chaos Gods. In the story, she goes in to completely seal the portal into the Realm of Chaos. She fails, and Horus enters, but it was a subtle contribution to the book, and added some history to the Emperor and ties him again directly to the Perpetuals. 4. House Devine are the preeminent Knight Household on the planet, tied into a Slaaneshi religion/cult throughout the years, this is where Fulgrim comes into play as a representation of their god. In the end, after betrayal, creepy behavior, talk of incest and assorted Slaaneshi corruption, the Knights of House Devine fall, and are responsible for the killing of the Imperator Titan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 @Scribe: In a way, yes, I do appreciate the Executioner schtick, but not for the reason that might come to mind. Basically, the Wolves are representative of "that guy" who says he can do everything and do it the best, but is constantly proven wrong. "We're willing to kill Space Marines." Great, World Eaters, Night Lords and Word Bearers(if attached quote is reliable) have been there and done that. "We're willing to do the jobs no one else wants." So are Angron, Fulgrim(remember no one wanted to fight the Laer), Curze, and pretty much all of the Traitors. "We play the savage so our foes think we're stupid." Yeah, that doesn't work out all too well when the entire VI Legion attacks a homeworld with only 10,000 Astartes defending it and the turning point in the conflict was when the Flesh Change crippled the opposition. Besides, better to be silent and thought a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt. That's how I look at it. Now, just to be clear, I do not hate the SW. I'm pointing out the bluster-comedy of the Executioner schtick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 so basically the wolves are capable of what the traitors happily do but what sets them apart is remaining loyalists and sane. works for me. i have no issue with them viewing themselves as executioners or whether it's true or not. being an executioner isn't about being the best, it's about willingness and reliability in this case. i'll never understand the fuss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670639 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 so basically the wolves are capable of what the traitors happily do but what sets them apart is remaining loyalists and sane. works for me. i have no issue with them viewing themselves as executioners or whether it's true or not. being an executioner isn't about being the best, it's about willingness and reliability in this case. i'll never understand the fuss. I think people see it as the Rout getting put over by the Black Library in the never ending war of which Legion is the most bad ass. I don't think that would necessarily make them any better or more deadly on its own, but hey. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adra'Melek Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I prefer the Executioner part meaning they will execute any task, like the good dogs they are (what was Khârn's wonderful quote? "Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls. The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does. That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 sounds like oversensitivity to me in that case, darknight. there's never been any objective proof of superiority in books i've read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No, but in "Prospero Burns" there are many in-universe remarks (the bulk of them by the Wolves themselves) that the VI are the scariest, most savage, most unstoppablest Legion of them all. And some have taken said statements as if they were Objective Truths of The Universe carved upon the Golden Tablets of Truth by an angel of Truth wielding a fiery sword of Truth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No, but in "Prospero Burns" there are many in-universe remarks (the bulk of them by the Wolves themselves) that the VI are the scariest, most savage, most unstoppablest Legion of them all. And some have taken said statements as if they were Objective Truths of The Universe carved upon the Golden Tablets of Truth by an angel of Truth wielding a fiery sword of Truth. that you can only read in a special hat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/15/#findComment-3670761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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