mc warhammer Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 kol, on the 30k sliding scale of world eaters, emp children and night lords i'm placing the wolves on sane end. so the main issue against the wolves being executioners isn't a creative one but more of a personal gripe against other fans. that's just...beyond me. but as you say- prerogatives and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I would have liked to have seen Russ and his Wolves go execute the 13th legion.... Emperor: Roboute has failed me go Russ Russ:Okay dad sure thing, who will you send to aid me? Emperor: Aid? You are my executioner, you don't need aid! Russ: Of course, off I go then~! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 kol, on the 30k sliding scale of world eaters, emp children and night lords i'm placing the wolves on sane end. so the main issue against the wolves being executioners isn't a creative one but more of a personal gripe against other fans. that's just...beyond me. but as you say- prerogatives and all that. Sane isnt the question, or point. The way it was presented in Prospero Burns, is the starting point. Every reiteration of 'We are His Executioners' after that, is an attempt at reaffirming the position put forward in that book. The problem is that it does attempt to elevate the Wolves above everyone else. 1. The Death Guard have been noted to fight in the most challenging, and toxic zones, and do so without pause. I guess the Wolves just didnt get dirty while there as well? 2. The Iron Warriors put up with all the 'worst' tasks with little recognition. I guess the Wolves did too, they just didnt get bitter about it? 3. The WE butchered worlds. I guess the Wolves just did it without smiling about it after? 4. The WE had no issue with fighting their fellow Legionnaires, nor did any of the Traitors, and even pre-heresy, there where internal purges (ref: IW Decimation, and WB Purges). I guess the Wolves just dont cry into their pillows after they kill Legions? 5. The NL would achieve compliance by their very mention as being in system. The Wolves however are noted as being more terrifying, more.. "Space Marine" than anyone else in Prospero Burns. I guess the Wolves are just that hardcore? --- Point is, there is no basis other then what was created in Prospero Burns, and now propagated throughout the series, for the position that the Wolves have been put it. There is no basis prior to that book for having the Wolves as Executioner, nothing that should have set them apart and above (!!!) the other Legions by putting them in that role. Has nothing to do with other fans at all. It has everything to do with cheapening the rest of the Legions, and marching all over fluff that had existed for a decade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 They reigned in the whole better than the other angles though. It certainly isn't anyone in Vengeful spirit that thinks Russ would succeed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 kol, on the 30k sliding scale of world eaters, emp children and night lords i'm placing the wolves on sane end. And yet neither Curze nor Fulgrim were ever taunted into blowing their top and starting a Legion War by Angron, unlike Mr. "Only my Legion melds savagery with control into that perfect executioner blend." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 They reigned in the whole better than the other angles though. It certainly isn't anyone in Vengeful spirit that thinks Russ would succeed. Neither was it in Prospero Burns. Unless it is in an audio book, which I don't go for, it has always been a fan reaction, either for or against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So many threads descend into this "Are Wolves executioners?" shtick A moment brothers, to remember all the brave threads we have lost to this dreadful scourge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 They reigned in the whole better than the other angles though. It certainly isn't anyone in Vengeful spirit that thinks Russ would succeed. They reigned in the whole better than the other angles though. It certainly isn't anyone in Vengeful spirit that thinks Russ would succeed. Neither was it in Prospero Burns. Unless it is in an audio book, which I don't go for, it has always been a fan reaction, either for or against. Thats simply false. You can find the quotes from external sources to the Wolves, the Gen-Enhanced guard for instance. To EXPLICITLY claim or call out something as an executioner as greater "there are marines..and then there are the space wolves", would imply that they could in fact pull the trigger, that they could slay what they are sent to slay. To accept that, is to accept that they are better than other legions, regardless of what it is they are doing. That that special combination of savagery, cunning, and stone cold loyalty makes them the ultimate predator, the greatest warriors in the galaxy. If its meaningless fluff, just chest thumping, fine, but DROP IT from the rest of the series. Let it be some forgotten mistake because what value does it add other than to ignite flames in my soul? And granted that must be it, the authors must be trolling me at this point. I'm ok with that, I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilMAC25 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Best book by Mr McNeil in quite some tine. Very good HH book in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Agree, back on topic, I enjoyed it more now that I've finished it and let it sit for a bit, than I thought I had. :] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To accept that, is to accept that they are better than other legions, regardless of what it is they are doing. That that special combination of savagery, cunning, and stone cold loyalty makes them the ultimate predator, the greatest warriors in the galaxy. Nope. Not at all. That is pure fan speculation, repeated constantly by those such as yourself and, back when it first showed up, a lot of the rabid wolf fanboys. The fluff has shown us, repeatedly, that the Space Wolves are just Marines. Case in point being the Thousand Sons/Prospero Burns story arc, the very books that brought this whole thing up and keeps getting misrepresented. We were showed how close the Wolves came to failing, and that the success they had was vastly due to the aid of others. But nope, let's just blow out of proportion the talk and backslapping that went on as well, in spite of the fact that none of it would have been out of place in any other Legion. Because it's the Space Wolves. And because some fans were annoying with how much they liked the idea that their favored Chapter/Legion could have some heightened importance, like the fans of half the other Chapters/Legions have had for some time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Given how combustible the whole Wolf situation has become, I'm surprised there wasn't a blowback about that bit in Unremembered Empire where Warsmith Dantioch tells Polux that the Iron Warriors and the Imperial Fists stand supreme in warcraft among all the Legions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Given how combustible the whole Wolf situation has become, I'm surprised there wasn't a blowback about that bit in Unremembered Empire where Warsmith Dantioch tells Polux that the Iron Warriors and the Imperial Fists stand supreme in warcraft among all the Legions. He's referring to the 'craft' of war, as in building things meant solely for war. Warmasons, Combat Engineers, etc. They build stuff and tear it down, no one is as good as them, and that is how its been since..... Hell, before I got here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To be honest. I felt lije Mcneill just tossed the Ultramarines in situations to make the Sons of Horus look good. What Abbadon and Horus are boarding a hulk? Better make the champion look like a chump. And so on and so forth. I'd really like to see us win, just once... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To be honest. I felt lije Mcneill just tossed the Ultramarines in situations to make the Sons of Horus look good. What Abbadon and Horus are boarding a hulk? Better make the champion look like a chump. And so on and so forth. I'd really like to see us win, just once... Technically, they win the Scouring doing the majority of the dirty work :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To be honest. I felt lije Mcneill just tossed the Ultramarines in situations to make the Sons of Horus look good. What Abbadon and Horus are boarding a hulk? Better make the champion look like a chump. And so on and so forth. I'd really like to see us win, just once... Calth That Was, A Deeper Darkness, Know No Fear, y'all got more stories with victories than the Night Lords do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thats because A D-B refuses to write a story where they actually win, but instead scamper off in an ambiguous scenario of lesser of two evils. He doesn't want to appear biased :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 To be honest. I felt lije Mcneill just tossed the Ultramarines in situations to make the Sons of Horus look good. What Abbadon and Horus are boarding a hulk? Better make the champion look like a chump. And so on and so forth. I'd really like to see us win, just once... Calth That Was, A Deeper Darkness, Know No Fear, y'all got more stories with victories than the Night Lords do. I mean yeah I guess. But every one of those victories is somewhat Pyrrhic wouldn't you say? Though we really do have more the the Night Lords...that's kinda sad. To be honest. I felt lije Mcneill just tossed the Ultramarines in situations to make the Sons of Horus look good. What Abbadon and Horus are boarding a hulk? Better make the champion look like a chump. And so on and so forth. I'd really like to see us win, just once... Technically, they win the Scouring doing the majority of the dirty work True, very True. And I pray that the Scouring series is 50 novels of Ultramrines kicking ass from Terra to Macragge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hey, it's worked so far. I have yet to hear many complaints of ADB-related bias, compared to pretty much every other author, the almighty Abnett included. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well, there is the "A D-B hates the Wolves!" that pops up every once in a blue moon. Still trying to figure out where that cane from, but I'd be lying if I said it mattered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 A D-B doesn't hate Space Wolves, he just hates Space Wolves fans Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thought of that too, so I changed "never" to "not nearly as much as I see his peers get." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Scribe of Khorne, most of that is your spin on the situation. I feel like we must have 2 different copies of Prospero Burns. Context is being forgotten here in preference to personal feelings. The context being- Abnett seems to write each legion from their world view, and all their worldviews appear to put themselves on pedestals. After reading Horus Rising or Legion, you could forgive any reader for feeling they'd just spent a few hundred pages with the best legion in creation. Each legion seems to better suited to certain tasks than others, it just seems the implied one for the Wolves has inspired a lot of bitterness on these forums. Is being an executioner so great? The only ones who seem to think so are the Space Wolves and the people who are agitated by it. Again, I don't and won't ever get it. And Wade, it comes down to the definition of sanity. What you describe sounds like hot headedness and poor decision making- not insanity of the chaos kind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Ugh, you guys are going to make me dig it out and quote it. I can tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 hey i'm nobody's mum Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/17/#findComment-3671853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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