Vengeful Spirit

[KJB]

I really liked Vengeful Spirit, my only gripe was with the way with the Blood Angels went out...

[Perrin]

Graham McNeill HH novels and shorts:

False Gods

Fulgrim

Mechanicum

A Thousand Sons

The Outcast Dead

Angel Exterminatus

Vengeful Spirit

The Dark King

Death of a Silversmith

The Kaban Project

The Reflection Crack'd

Calth That Was

Rules of Engagement

The Last Church

Out of the novels, the only one I dislike is TOD. AE is one of my favourite HH novels (uncommon opinion I know). Fulgrim, Mechanicum and ATS are frequently referred to as among the best of the HH, for good reason. False Gods may not have had the space to fully explore the reasons for Horus' fall, and as such it seemed rather quick and shallow, but there is a limit as to what can be done in a single book, especially as it needs to tie directly into the previous and the next in the series. Even so it was a great (joint) start to the series.

RoE was a decent short story, although its place in the timeline is suspect (this is McNeill) and the twist at the end for anyone reading it for the first time was neat. TRC was good, but needed to be clearer on whether it was Fulgrim or the daemon in control, and seemed more of an excuse to show how degraded the EC had become by using some rather questionable torture methods. TLC and DoaS were great shorts, especially considering the amount of bolterporn that we get from BL. The HH is a lot better than most for this, but it was still nice to have stories that are purely narrative. Plus The Last Church is one of the few glimpses we have of the Emperor.

Obviously tastes and opinions are subjective, but it's unfair to question whether GM has ever given us a good book apart from ATS.

Side note, I may have missed a few short stories, especially if they're LE or audio books. Also, had to type this out twice as I accidently went back a page, and completely forgot that GM wrote False Gods

[Scribe]

Which was Rules of Engagement?

[Kol Saresk]

Rules of Engagement was the one where the Ultramarines were just sitting in Ultramar and practicing the Codex Astartes against themselves.

[Perrin]

 

The whole story is set up as a description of various Legions fighting each other, mismatched fights like Salamanders v Ultramarines etc, then at the end it is revealed that it's not real and that it's all just war games for the Ultramarines to practice fighting against other Legions and to develop the codex astartes, iirc

 

 

It isn't much in the grand scheme of the series but I thought it was a decent enough story taken on its own.

[Scribe]

Oh yes, I did like that one actually!

[Relict]

You people just talked me into ordering Vengeful Spirit (along with Legion). :D

[Plague Angel]

 

The whole story is set up as a description of various Legions fighting each other, mismatched fights like Salamanders v Ultramarines etc, then at the end it is revealed that it's not real and that it's all just war games for the Ultramarines to practice fighting against other Legions and to develop the codex astartes, iirc

 

 

It isn't much in the grand scheme of the series but I thought it was a decent enough story taken on its own.

 

...Is it set after or before Calth?

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

 

The whole story is set up as a description of various Legions fighting each other, mismatched fights like Salamanders v Ultramarines etc, then at the end it is revealed that it's not real and that it's all just war games for the Ultramarines to practice fighting against other Legions and to develop the codex astartes, iirc

 

 

It isn't much in the grand scheme of the series but I thought it was a decent enough story taken on its own.

...Is it set after or before Calth?

It was published before Know No Fear but was set after Calth, IIRC. It is the first place we get an inkling of "Imperium Secundus".

[Scribe]

I guess it would have to have been after Calth, as they 'knew' Horus had turned.

[Conn Eremon]

First lines of the short:

 

"HE WANTED TO weep, but the last two years had turned his heart to stone . . . brothers forsaken, a world of Ultramar burned and the golden dream of galactic unity reduced to ashes."

 

So two years into the Heresy, two years after Calth.

[Kol Saresk]

Two years after Calth would be the third year of the Heresy though. Calth was one year later.

[Conn Eremon]

My bad, I keep thinking Calth is right after Isstvan.

[Plague Angel]

But, uh...
 

brothers forsaken, a world of Ultramar burned

 

Sounds like post-Calth to me.

[Kol Saresk]

But, uh...

 

 

brothers forsaken, a world of Ultramar burned

 

Sounds like post-Calth to me.

 

 

First lines of the short:

 

"HE WANTED TO weep, but the last two years had turned his heart to stone . . . brothers forsaken, a world of Ultramar burned and the golden dream of galactic unity reduced to ashes."

 

So two years into the Heresy, two years after Calth.

Good thing you both agree then isn't it?

[Plague Angel]

Just double-checking!

[Legatus]

'Rules of Engagement' was yet another slap in the facees of devout fans of the Ultramarines by the hand of McNeill. Not only did he claim that the Codex doctrines had not actually been shaped over the course of the Crusade, but were made up by Guilliman completely on the fly during the Heresy, his own Legion being shown to be as unfamiliar with it as any other Legion would be, he also had the chance to have his Uriel Ventris character vindicated by having Guilliman himself state that the Codex is sometimes wrong and should not be so strictly adhered to. He will no doubt do the same when he is allowed to write about the battle for macragge.

 

The line "a world of Ultramar burned" delivers another sting in retrospect. At least Ultramar apparently was still the same old nine worlds at this point, and only one world (Calth) had suffered under the attack of the Word Bearers. But then Abnett would retcon it into five hundred worlds in 'Know No Fear', and a hundred more worlds would burn under the attack.

[b1soul]

I found A Thousand Sons so disappointing because I wanted a real convincing reason for the actions of the Thousand Sons, and a non-rambling point of view of Nikea. I got neither. 

 

Look on the bright side, you got a White Scar stormseer with a funny accent

[mc warhammer]

as an "outsider" who has no warhammer 40k bias (favorite legions or wish lists on what I want to see written and HOW), i believe mcneill is a poor writer. he has some interesting ideas but completely uninteresting and shallow executions of them. its like he should be part of a creative thinktank or write blurbs or something- the needs of a full length novel seem to escape his ability. false gods is substandard and fulgrim is embarrassing. that being said, i believe ATS is a crowd pleaser partly due to the subject matter and mcneill playing very safe with it. hell, even i enjoyed it. in the same way i enjoy a mcchicken burger.

[TemujinZero]

I always find McNeills books enjoyable, even when he throws in a few continuity howlers and poorly thought out characters.  He's made a strong positive contribution to the series that outweighs those sour notes.  This is more than I can say for certain other authors.  

 

We've seen some truly awful books which, along with Black Library's continued attempts to drive off it's customers, have gone some way towards killing off interest in the series.  

 

Abnett and ADB's books keep me locked in.  ADB's books are always fantastic.  I didn't much like Unremembered Empire, but Abnett would have to put out another 10 or so disappointments for me to lose faith in him - he's more than earned it.  

 

McNeill might not be on the same level as these two, but he's written better books than Unremembered Empire (Vengeful Spirit for one), and I certainly put him amongst those authors that are keeping the series alive for me, ranged against those authors who should have never been allowed near it and, more recently, the publisher itself.

[b1soul]

those authors who should have never been allowed near it

 

James Swallow...just say it LOL

 

 

as an "outsider" who has no warhammer 40k bias (favorite legions or wish lists on what I want to see written and HOW), i believe mcneill is a poor writer. he has some interesting ideas but completely uninteresting and shallow executions of them. its like he should be part of a creative thinktank or write blurbs or something- the needs of a full length novel seem to escape his ability. false gods is substandard and fulgrim is embarrassing. that being said, i believe ATS is a crowd pleaser partly due to the subject matter and mcneill playing very safe with it. hell, even i enjoyed it. in the same way i enjoy a mcchicken burger.

 

Well put, well put indeed 

[gogmagog]

I don't know, I really enjoyed Fulgrim and it's the only Heresy book I've read twice. I like Graham's work, but it's like anything it's horses for courses. Really at the end of the day it's niche space opera with some fantasy elements. A lot of people like the game of thrones books, but I got half way through the first one and thought it badly written and left it there.

[Plague Angel]

Heck, even Dan Abnett has made me roll my eyes a few times. Unremembered Empire in particular had too many moments that felt, well, cute. It was particularly disappointing since I rocketed through it on the momentum of reading Know No Fear in one sitting, which might be my favorite Heresy novel overall.

[fission]

Just finished Vengeful Spirit . Disapointment .... Is it me or MacNeill's writing gift is fading more and more ?

[Hyaenidae]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but Vengeful Spirit might be the first HH book I'll be skipping.

 

I'm sorry, McNeil, but my adoration for Storm of Iron and Thousand Sons can no longer cover up how bummed I was after Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus. Forgive me, my love.