Kilofix Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Space Wolves and Mortarian I can explain - but SPOILERS: Space Wolves were created as sort of an internal affairs police for the Legions. They watch their own. And yes they are executioners. But it doesn't mean they are happy about their work. In the White Scars HH Novel - Scars - A Legion Divided, you read about the deep regret and second guesses that the Space Wolve have at having destroyed Prospero. Mortarian in Vengeful Spirit has changed. Previously he was somber but he did 'care' about his own to a certain extent. He was also anti-psyker. But then things change in the HH Novel - Daemonology. In that novel he goes to Terra to talk to the Emperor but is asked to stay away by Malcador. He learns about the gate underneath the Palace. Quote "You talk about the Imperial Turth but you are neck deep in witchery". He sees hypocrisy and he feels used. That sets him down the path to renege. Then after Isstvan, he suffers a defeat at the hands of the White Scars. At some point after that he captures a Daemon possessed mortal in order to get answers from it. In that exchange the Daemon attacks him and he is forced to use his latent psychic potential to kill it. From that point on he decides to learn all he can to master what he still calls 'witchery'. His last quote is "So be it, it starts here". Mortarian by Vengeful Spirit, just like Lorgar and the other WBs (who incidentally also started off caring about their wards), is changed and at that point knows that human lives don't matter. The Primodial Truth matters. And if human lives or Legion lives need to be sacrificed to summon the truth of the Empyrean to the fore then "....so be it". As one of the Word Bearers says in one of the books - there is true power in sacrifice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4110995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The space wolves as executioners idea was done away with in Betrayer. Russ may consider himself in the role of enforcer, but that is not in any official capacity. He probably took the role on himself since he was the second found, but I sincerely doubt the wolves will be portrayed as an internal affairs outfit in their background. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111059 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The space wolves as executioners idea was done away with in Betrayer. Russ may consider himself in the role of enforcer, but that is not in any official capacity. He probably took the role on himself since he was the second found, but I sincerely doubt the wolves will be portrayed as an internal affairs outfit in their background. Thanks for the correction, I'll need to reread Betrayer again, once I'm done with reading KNF for the fourth time, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 There may be some sort of allusion to it, at least in their self perception of themselves, like a quote from a skjald or one of the text panels they use so well. Like how nobody really expected Ultramar to be a ruthlessly controlled police-state in direct contradiction to its portrayal as a cultural utopia on the Eastern edge of the galaxy. As Marshal Rohr rightly pointed out though, there's nothing official in any aspect of their self appointed executioners role. Betrayer blows it apart completely with the confrontation between Angron and Russ "He didn't send you did He?" enough said. Even if they take pride in it, it was never intended to be the be all and end all of the VI Legion. It just happened that some of the more rabid supporters of the Vlka Fenryka decreed that portrayal in Prospero Burns was explicit proof of their superiority over the rest of the Legions. I mean the World Eaters took great pride in being the berserking killers they ended the Great Crusade as but that was never meant to be their role. All about perspective and how each Legion is able to view itself Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 The Wolves were part of the 3 legions created separately with the Alphas and Salamanders, and we know the Salamanders had something in the genetic makeup that caused their skin color and mentality before Vulkan was found, so I assume the Alphas and Wolves both had similar things done to them during their creation. The other interesting note is Vulkan and Russ were both found extremely early in the Crusade, but Alpharius didn't take command of his legion until much later. I wouldn't be surprised if Alpharius had actually been apart of the Imperium for much longer than we think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I wonder of Alpharius Omegon is if one remained on Terra in secret while the other ended up wherever. Of course when the second was found, he stayed with Horus for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I wonder of Alpharius Omegon is if one remained on Terra in secret while the other ended up wherever. Of course when the second was found, he stayed with Horus for a while. We don't know if the 'found by Horus, stayed with him' thing is true anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Would certainly help explain the divergence the brothers seem to be undergoing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 I wonder of Alpharius Omegon is if one remained on Terra in secret while the other ended up wherever. Of course when the second was found, he stayed with Horus for a while. Horus IS Alpharion or Omegon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 and it's started...more AL ninja-wizard-unicorn crap. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Please, no...We've already had multiple threads on the subject; even one debating whether or not Omegon could've been a Grand Master of the Grey Knights :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4111519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Space Wolves and Mortarian I can explain - but SPOILERS: Space Wolves were created as sort of an internal affairs police for the Legions. They watch their own. And yes they are executioners. But it doesn't mean they are happy about their work. In the White Scars HH Novel - Scars - A Legion Divided, you read about the deep regret and second guesses that the Space Wolve have at having destroyed Prospero. Mortarian in Vengeful Spirit has changed. Previously he was somber but he did 'care' about his own to a certain extent. He was also anti-psyker. But then things change in the HH Novel - Daemonology. In that novel he goes to Terra to talk to the Emperor but is asked to stay away by Malcador. He learns about the gate underneath the Palace. Quote "You talk about the Imperial Turth but you are neck deep in witchery". He sees hypocrisy and he feels used. That sets him down the path to renege. Then after Isstvan, he suffers a defeat at the hands of the White Scars. At some point after that he captures a Daemon possessed mortal in order to get answers from it. In that exchange the Daemon attacks him and he is forced to use his latent psychic potential to kill it. From that point on he decides to learn all he can to master what he still calls 'witchery'. His last quote is "So be it, it starts here". Mortarian by Vengeful Spirit, just like Lorgar and the other WBs (who incidentally also started off caring about their wards), is changed and at that point knows that human lives don't matter. The Primodial Truth matters. And if human lives or Legion lives need to be sacrificed to summon the truth of the Empyrean to the fore then "....so be it". As one of the Word Bearers says in one of the books - there is true power in sacrifice. See this is what annoys me the most about the HH series. It has become so fragmented and divided in how it delivers its stories that I'm never likely going to be able to read all of it (I wasn't even aware of this Daemonology story you mentioned). I don't see why they couldn't of just kept it all within the book format they had going. But from what you've said, it now makes more sense to a lot of the issues that I had with the book. If I had known this whilst reading the book I'd of probably enjoyed it a bit more. Blargh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4112134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 The space wolves as executioners idea was done away with in Betrayer. Russ may consider himself in the role of enforcer, but that is not in any official capacity. He probably took the role on himself since he was the second found, but I sincerely doubt the wolves will be portrayed as an internal affairs outfit in their background. Yeah...but Malcador employs "Watch Packs" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/28/#findComment-4112202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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