HamsterExAstris Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 When is the hardcover going to be released for general sale? May. (The date was given in the Legion hardcover, and that's the typical three months before the TPB release in August.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Does anyone find leman Russ to be completely off his rocker? After being mauled by the TS and AL they would barely have the numbers to take on Horus yet he still runs after them.... Like seriously golly gee? You have a small legion as it is & nearly wipe yourself out fighting the TS then get attacked by the AL then you still seem to think you can waltz on after the warmaster who is accompanied by the XIVth legion so your beyond outnumbered as they are preparing for the push to terra. Leman my friend you are deffinately not as smart or cunning as a wolf Look well, folks, at the thoughts of a traitor. Where something is only worth doing, if success is assured. Where the seeds of courage find soil long since barren, and cannot take root. Look not here for heroism, where the defiant roar for defiance's sake. Here is the brother whose smile gleams like the poisoned knife held behind back. Not the brother, wounded and dying, who vows to use what life he has left to take it from those who betrayed him. Yes, Jasp. Keep your back straight and head high with false pride. Laugh at the beast, slick with blood from the wounds you inflicted. Mock it, as it comes for you again, teeth bared, rather than flee to its cave and hide. Pretend the howls for your death are of no concern. It will make no difference when the wolf comes. Because eventually you'll still kill it and skin it, and as added insult you will never reveal the body, so that whole generations of his sons will believe in a dead lie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Pretty much :D Even the WE had tactical sense Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Pretty much :D Even the WE had tactical sense Just remember, Russ survives this suicidal charge. He may fall some time later, on some unnamed world deep within the Eye, but he survives this. Which means he has ample opportunity to show himself as a bamf in the upcoming events. I doubt he will claim much of a victory, if at all, but damn will it be cool to see the Wolf King in a straight up fight. None of the extra context that went into Prospero, none of the bull :cuss "My dad vs. Your dad" that was the Night of the Wolf. Just the Space Wolves going to war. Win or lose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Does anyone find leman Russ to be completely off his rocker? After being mauled by the TS and AL they would barely have the numbers to take on Horus yet he still runs after them.... Like seriously golly gee? You have a small legion as it is & nearly wipe yourself out fighting the TS then get attacked by the AL then you still seem to think you can waltz on after the warmaster who is accompanied by the XIVth legion so your beyond outnumbered as they are preparing for the push to terra. Leman my friend you are deffinately not as smart or cunning as a wolf Crazy like a fox though :D However the Space wolves are supposed to be a bunch of nut cases though, even Torgaddon thinks that they would win a fight just out of sheer nuttery (which technically the award should belong to the world eaters in this case) Maybe someone will write the Space Wolves to my liking, or maybe I'll stop complaining, or maybe hell will freeze over. Whichever comes first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I just think tactically it's a stupid move, reinforcing terra could have changed the outcome. It's a stupid suicidal risk IMO. For a genetically engineered Demi god it's a joke Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well...wasn't there something in Scars where Leman said he was more enraged than he had ever been in his life, and he was minded to let the fury be his guide and see where it took him? Apparently he wasn't kidding. And he also forgot his own lesson from Night of the Wolf, but que sera, sera. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 They are aetting Russ up for something apart from Guilliman Dorn and the Lion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well...wasn't there something in Scars where Leman said he was more enraged than he had ever been in his life, and he was minded to let the fury be his guide and see where it took him? Apparently he wasn't kidding. And he also forgot his own lesson from Night of the Wolf, but que sera, sera. "Vlka Fenryka! Blood for the Blood Wolf!!! Skulls for the- uh....I mean.... "Woof woof!!!" That would explain why Lemans armor was found at the base of a Khorne alter ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I just think tactically it's a stupid move, reinforcing terra could have changed the outcome. It's a stupid suicidal risk IMO. For a genetically engineered Demi god it's a joke same reason that corax and the khan won't sit behind a wall they want to be out there and achieiving something Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yeah but the Khan was at Terra. Russ and Corax weren't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Corax was literally reduced to around 3000 astrates and took on guerrilla tactics (smart reasoning) Russ was down to approx 25% legion strength and decided to take on Horus? (Other then revenge where's the reasoning) Corax watched his sons get massacred and a brother die Russ just over reacted and bought it on himself by stupid decisions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Corax was literally reduced to around 3000 astrates and took on guerrilla tactics (smart reasoning) Russ was down to approx 25% legion strength and decided to take on Horus? (Other then revenge where's the reasoning) Corax watched his sons get massacred and a brother die Russ just over reacted and bought it on himself by stupid decisions 25%? Is that actually stated in the book? I thought Prospero at least was a cakewalk for the wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopkins Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Yeah but the Khan was at Terra. Russ and Corax weren't. in the old fluff, yes who knows what paths they'll take now? this book is already changing things up in massive way just enjoy the ride Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's estimated in scars iirc that the wolves are at quarter strength after nearly annihilating themselves on prospero Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonerhino Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Karthak, on 03 Mar 2014 - 01:15, said: Jaspcat, on 03 Mar 2014 - 00:24, said: Corax was literally reduced to around 3000 astrates and took on guerrilla tactics (smart reasoning) Russ was down to approx 25% legion strength and decided to take on Horus? (Other then revenge where's the reasoning) Corax watched his sons get massacred and a brother die Russ just over reacted and bought it on himself by stupid decisions 25%? Is that actually stated in the book? I thought Prospero at least was a cakewalk for the wolves.Prospero was anything but a cake walk. The Thousand Sons are probably pound for pound the strongest Legion. McNeil did an amazing job showing this while still giving the feeling of the noose tightening, in A Thousand Sons. As he did showing the Wolves to be exceptional killers. The problem is that this is lost because of all the internet's "Accurate" information. That is not to say that Russ running off to face Horus is a smart thing to do. In Scars he even seemed to believe that had he been at Istvaan that it would have made a difference. We will have to wait and see how this plays out however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's estimated in scars iirc that the wolves are at quarter strength after nearly annihilating themselves on prospero I've looked through my copy of Scars, and I can't find that anywhere. Mentions of their ships being damaged, yes. Reduced to quarter strength? No. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 This is all I can find on a quick word search regarding the Wolves numbers: “All Legions had taken casualties during the Great Crusade, but some assignments had been bloodier than others. The Wolves numbers had never been among the highest, a feature exacerbated by their aggressive drive to limit recruitment to Fenris, and their constant deployment – usually self-appointed – to some of the most arduous warzones of the campaign. Prospero had hurt them further, perhaps more than they truly understood.” Excerpt From: Wraight, Chris. “Scars: Collector's Edition.” Black Library, 2013-12. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=785422712 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karthak Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 This is all I can find on a quick word search regarding the Wolves numbers: “All Legions had taken casualties during the Great Crusade, but some assignments had been bloodier than others. The Wolves numbers had never been among the highest, a feature exacerbated by their aggressive drive to limit recruitment to Fenris, and their constant deployment – usually self-appointed – to some of the most arduous warzones of the campaign. Prospero had hurt them further, perhaps more than they truly understood.” Excerpt From: Wraight, Chris. “Scars: Collector's Edition.” Black Library, 2013-12. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=785422712 Hmm. I interpreted the "more than they truly understood" part as psychological damage. We shall see. However, what really bugs me about the Wolves in Scars is that their fleet is damaged. How the Hel did that happen? Magnus had sent away his own fleet, and: "They’d taken a hit over Prospero from one of the few surface-to-orbit salvoes that the Thousand Sons had managed to launch, and it had played havoc with his systems ever since." If the Thousand Sons fleet was absent, and their planetary defenses only got off a few salvoes, the Wolves fleet should barely have been scratched. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostMalone Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hmmm now I'm confused as to how I got there. Time to re read Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3607980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 This is all I can find on a quick word search regarding the Wolves numbers: “All Legions had taken casualties during the Great Crusade, but some assignments had been bloodier than others. The Wolves numbers had never been among the highest, a feature exacerbated by their aggressive drive to limit recruitment to Fenris, and their constant deployment – usually self-appointed – to some of the most arduous warzones of the campaign. Prospero had hurt them further, perhaps more than they truly understood.” Excerpt From: Wraight, Chris. “Scars: Collector's Edition.” Black Library, 2013-12. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Check out this book on the iBooks Store: https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewBook?id=785422712 Hmm. I interpreted the "more than they truly understood" part as psychological damage. We shall see. However, what really bugs me about the Wolves in Scars is that their fleet is damaged. How the Hel did that happen? Magnus had sent away his own fleet, and: "They’d taken a hit over Prospero from one of the few surface-to-orbit salvoes that the Thousand Sons had managed to launch, and it had played havoc with his systems ever since." If the Thousand Sons fleet was absent, and their planetary defenses only got off a few salvoes, the Wolves fleet should barely have been scratched. Well, we do know both Legions were roughly equal strength before Prospero. We know due to their psyker abilities and having a bloody Titan for a toy, the Thousand Sons basically put out the most firepower, both against the Wolves and themselves. What with the Flesh-change and all. So even if the Wolves casualties weren't "bad", it was no "cakewalk". Both Legions took it hard. The Thousand Sons took it harder mostly due to the Flesh-change making their powers go haywire. You're assuming that the size of each salvo was small. All a salvo is basically a volley, a single firing of all guns. We don't know how many surface-to-orbit weapons were on Prospero. A "few" salvos could have been enough to hit every ship in the fleet at least once. And it really doesn't help that we don't know what kind of weaponry was used. Off the top of my head, I've seen it written that there have been missiles, macro-cannons and macro-lasers used for surface-to-orbit attack. So there's a variety on what to use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3608023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Both Prospero Burns and A Thousand Sons claim that Magnus shut the whole planetary defense network down. Unless Hathor Ma'at was standing down there throwing mind bullets at the Wolf fleet or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3608031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Remember that the anti-air cannons probably was magically guided á lá Phosis T'kar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3608032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Both Prospero Burns and A Thousand Sons claim that Magnus shut the whole planetary defense network down. Unless Hathor Ma'at was standing down there throwing mind bullets at the Wolf fleet or something. Yeah, and? Didn't exactly stop them from throwing up a kine barrier. Whose to say someone didn't throw punches back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3608036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 And wouldn't have the (admittedly potentially subdued) defenses opened up once Magnus commited into the fight, if we take it to heart that thousand sons took out 3/4 of the wolves while holding a significant (majority, with Magnus and the network out?) amount of strength back? The question is whether the majority of the wolf losses were suffered before or after Magnus' commitment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287439-vengeful-spirit/page/4/#findComment-3608105 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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