Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 So, we seem to be having an influx of people asking for advice about how to play (or defeat) Knights in 6th. I'm writing this as an introduction for such people, and a refresher for those who maybe took a break during 5th and are only just getting back into things. I'm gonna go by army list, as it lets me discuss things in context better, rather than say listing all the special rules and wargear, then explaining them again in unit entries. General principles: - Elite Squared: Suffice to say, we're a low model count army. Not as bad as Deathwing, but pretty close. Most typical Knight lists max out at 20-30 infantry, even with Henchmen. If you're not keen on that style of army, look elsewhere. Another key point is that every casualty hurts, and given 6th might as well be called 'Revenge of the Xenos', Marine hate in the meta has never been stronger. Be aware of how fragile your army can be in some matchups, and try to mitigate such problems. - Focus and Support: Do not spread out your forces. Knight units are well-rounded generalists (being Marines), but they are designed to fit roles and support one another. We're a mid-range army that likes to soften up the enemy with shooting, then finish the job in melee. This is not an army where you can camp in your DZ and play it safe, you don't have the numbers or the range on most of your units. Get aggressive, stick together and focus down key threats. - Watch Your Upgrades: It's very easy to spend points with Knights. Remember to stick to a unit's role and focus on being good at what it already does. Even some obviously good upgrades, such as psybolts, are optional if you have better things to spend points on. HQ: Coteaz: I could write an entire article on this guy. Needless to say, he's basically auto-include in all but the most obscure theme lists. A short list below demonstrates why; - Mastery 2 Divination: Most armies pay at least 100 points for that, if not more. - Artificer armour+nemesis hammer: He can kill most enemy heroes in the game, and provided they don't have AP2 melee, can probably survive a duel. He lacks an invul, so he's not really a front-line hero, but he can still do great work in a melee unit. - IBEY: Interceptor on crack. It only works within 12", but given that it procs on every enemy landing within that zone, you can basically shut down Deepstrike with him and a few Strike or Interceptor Knights in the right spots. Remember that 'Prescience' lasts until your next turn, so it still works in the enemy turn. - Henchmen Troops: This is probably his biggest bonus. I'll explain more in the Henchmen entry Just take him Grandmaster: Combining the roles of both melee powerhouse and buffing your army both in specific (his unit) and general terms. People like to kit him out with all the grenades, but in all honesty all he needs is a nemesis hammer. Keep him cheap, he's already close to 200pts base. He's a great Warlord choice, given how durable he his, but his main draw is 'Grand Strategy'. This basically means you can mitigate your low scoring presence at will, or give Scout to key units (the other two buffs are pretty mediocre most of the time). His natural place is attached to a Terminator unit or a melee Henchmen squad in a Raven. Inquisitors: You can now get up to 3 extra ones via the Inquisition codex. I field them either as 55pt 'Prescience' attachments (not to mention Ld10 Stubborn as well, which is huge for Strikes and shooty Henchmen). Or you can go all out and get the Terminator Inquisitor with hammer and psycannon to go with a frontline unit like Terminators or Purifiers. In either form, they're pretty hard to pass up, especially if you field multiple Henchmen units. Re-rolls is huge for Knights, do not underestimate how much 'Prescience' adds up over a game. Librarian: Bit more of a cornercase choice these days, but he's still good in certain matchups. Never swap for Divination, Coteaz and Inquisitors are cheaper and better at getting access to that lore. The main Knight powers you should take are 'Might', 'Quicksilver', 'Shrouding' and 'Sanctuary'. 'Warp Rift' can be fun but he's not really frontline, more a support hero. 'Summoning' can be fun if you give him a teleport homer, but it's a little bit janky TBH. His main draws in 6th are his Mastery 2 (3 if you wanna splurge out on the upgrade) and psychic hood, which give you a 5+ Deny aura to shut down damaging spells murdering your expensive Knights. As far as attaching goes, he's probably best with Terminators or Purifiers, as his powers are geared mostly towards melee and with a warding stave he's pretty hilarious in challenges (he can even tie up annoying Monstrous Creatures with the 2+ invul). The other SC's and generics are either overpriced, underpowered or plain stupid. I'd avoid them in 6th, taking terrible HQ's is punishingly bad for Knights, as we rely on HQ to shore up weaknesses elsewhere in the army and support our units effectively. Elites: Purifiers: Our best infantry choice. They are roughly Sternguard price however, so 1-2 squads would be all you can usually afford. Given how cheap their melee and shooting upgrades are, I'd kit every model out. I like halberds on them, as they have plenty of attacks and you don't use them to fight Terminators, you use them to fight superior numbers and other Marines. For the four special weapon caddies (or two if you only take combat squads), I'd go either all incinerator (if they're in a Raven or Scouting/Outflanking) or all psycannon (if you plan on walking or staying mid-field). 'Cleansing Flame' is a god-send against horde lists, Tyranids and Orks avoid this unit like the plague. A Grandmaster goes really well with them, making them scoring or Scout/Outflank is huge. The rest of Elite is sadly too pricey, or made redundant by the meta. Honourable Mention, For Lengthy And Faultless Service To The Throne: Vindicare: Okay, so he's got 2 x T4 wounds, protected by Stealth and a 4+ invul. Infiltrate (sadly he's the only Assassin that has it, the others missed the memo about being y'know stealthy and infiltrating close to their targets...le sigh GW) gets him into a good sniping spot early. You basically never move him, except in emergencies, in which case he's probably dead anyway. They took away his Spymask, which makes zero sense (-1 to cover saves wasn't exactly game breaking, I would've made him Ignore Cover altogether but hey that's crazy talk right...an Assassin consistently killing things...way off with that aye...). The Guns: Both are AP1 and Sniper, so no armour ever and when shooting tanks you're not entirely useless (more on that later). You almost never use the pistol, the rifle is 36" range like usual and is the gun you'll use for most of his lifespan (which is at best 3 turns normally). The Ammo: The real value of the Vindicare lies in his unique ammo types. - Hellfire means you wound on a 2+, so for sniping 1-wound squad leaders, Sanguinary Priests, Wolf Guard attached to squads, Apothecaries etc, its your go-to choice. - Shieldbreaker does what it says, if they have a nice invul save, you lose it against this shot and for the rest of the game. Note that this only applies to invul saves granted by wargear, like Iron Halos or storm shields etc. 'Natural' invul saves are unaffected, although they're much rarer (mostly just Daemons). Side-note, this is hilarious when used on a Riptide, as suddenly it can no longer shrug off lascannon, plasma and melta all game (battlesuits are wargear). GG Tau, you insane monsters. - Turbo-Penetrator: Against 2-wound characters like Librarians etc, this is pretty handy, and it can even be good for finishing off an annoying MC thats lingering on 2 wounds, or a more powerful character you already shot last turn with a Hellfire or Shieldbreaker. It's real value though lies in its use on vehicles. S3+4D6 is nasty enough, but when you consider that any 6 roll out of those 4D6 results in another D3 armour penetration (GW has explicitly ruled that every roll of a 6 will proc Rend), you on average dice penetrate AV14 pretty reliably. Combined with AP1 (+2 to the damage roll on the new chart), you can one-shot most vehicles in the game provided they don't either cover save (hi Eldar) or invul save (hi Soulgrinders) against it. Troops: Terminators: Yeah, we get Troop Terminators, and they're good at melee and shooting. However, they are of course still Terminator priced, although all but falchions are free on them (I'd generally go a mix of hammers and halberds), and the psycannon/incinerator is expensive. Riptides and other AP2 do ruin their day, so think carefully about how heavily you want to invest. Combat squads are a good idea, you only need 5 to kill most units in the game. Ravens or Librarians teleporting them across the battlefield is great, because they are slow. Strikes: Basically our Tactical squad, except unlike Tactical Marines, Strike Knights are actually good. Double psycannon, maybe psybolts or a hammer on the Justicar, call it a day. Combat squadding isn't always neccessary, but it can help to mitigate Riptides and other such units taking big chunks out of a squad. I'd generally Deepstrike or walk onto objectives, then camp. They're okay in melee, but nothing special, it's really their firepower you bring them for. Henchmen: You're taking Coteaz, so yeah they're Troops. Henchmen are the perfect counterpart to Knights. Instead of being expensive, reasonably durable specialists, Henchmen are cheap but fragile specialists. Like with Coteaz, I could write a whole article on Henchmen alone, so I'll just suggest some common builds; - 3 x Servitor w/plasma cannon, Acolytes with or without storm bolter: A cheap and effective fire support unit, perfect for dealing with enemy infantry (especially 2+ saves). Combined with Coteaz or an Inquisitor giving them re-rolls (and potentially 'Ignore Cover' via Perfect Timing), they will cause a lot of damage if not dealt with. Park them in an Aegis Line with a Quad Gun for best results, let the attached Inquisitor man the gun. - 5 x Death-Cultists w/power sword+power axe, 5 x Crusaders w/power axe+storm shield: You need a Raven for them, they're too easily killed otherwise. Ideally you attached a melee hero or a Terminator Inquisitor to further buff them, then hop out and charge problems. Crusaders tank damage, whilst the DCA blenderise enemy units. - Jokaero: I'd generally take a unit of 8+ or take none, sprinkled into a unit they're a bit too weak for their points, but focused as a large single unit they can work wonders. Don't worry too much about the Customisation buff, their real draw is their ring weapon. Lascannon mode early on can kill enemy MC's and tanks, then later on heavy flamer mode is great for clearing out infantry or deterring charges. They are T2 however, so an Aegis Line to cower behind is essential. They can also work from inside a Chimera. Fast Attack: Storm Raven: One of the best Flyers in the game, eclipsed only by the Vendetta. You can go cheap default with it, but it's still over 200pts base, so I am more and more splurging out for the Dakka Raven. Twin heavy bolter, twin assault cannon and Hurricane sponsons, plus psybolts and locator beacon. It ends up being more than a Landraider, but it does so much work and has Flyer defences (plus melta immunity, Machine Spirit and AV12 on all facings). As a transport it's superb, Assault Ramp means the turn after it arrives, you can move 6", disembark 6", then shoot+charge an enemy unit (and we have so many units that want to ride in it choosing which is a challenge). It also has psi-strike missiles, which are the perfect weapon against Jetseer Council, Screamerstar and psykers in general. A very flexible and effective unit, held back only by being a vehicle (and thus dead in three glances) and non-scoring. Interceptors: Basically a cheap alternative to a Dreadknight. Take as combat squads, give them falchions and an incinerator, zip up flanks and harass the enemy backline. They are quite easy to kill, but with a Grandmaster giving them scoring or Scout/Outflank, combined with their shunt move and Jump move, they can be very fast. Heavy Support: PsyDread: A powerhouse in 5th, in 6th it's held back only by being a vehicle and its guns do little to a Riptide. It is still a great fire support unit, being one of our few 48" range units. More and more though, I find the other Heavy Support choice better. Personal choice, try both and see which gets you better results. Dreadknight: One of our star units. Like with the Raven, you can field them bare bones, but with upgrades he becomes a much bigger threat. Telepoter is a must, he's just too slow without one and will get picked off by plasma or lascannon before he gets in melee. Greatsword is insane, for the price of a powerfist you re-roll to hit and wound in melee. Heavy incinerator is really the only good ranged weapon, and what a gun. It's basically the Hellhound's gun from IG, on a Jump MC with a shunt move once per game as well. His biggest weaknesses are I4 and his 5+ invul, which means if he fights someone with AP2 attacks he'll die quickly. Instant Death is also an issue, avoid units that can do that. Grandmaster giving him Scout is great (giving him scoring is a bad idea as if he's doing his job, he's usually dead halfway through the game). The rest of Heavy Support is either better done by other unit choices, or is too pricey or too fragile for 6th edition. Feel free to ask further questions, or make suggestions on how to improve this primer. Thanks for reading guys, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Inquisitors: You can now get up to 3 extra ones via the Inquisition codex. I keep making that mistake mate. It's 2HQ and 3Elite (per detachment). 'Summoning' can be fun if you give him a teleport homer Summoning doesn't work with a Teleport Homer. But it does work with a Battle Brother Locator Beacon (from Red Hunters) or a Death from the Skies Grey Knight Stormraven. Which you should always use if you take Storm Ravens, as the upgrades can be cheaper. and psychic hood, which give you a 5+ Deny aura to shut down damaging spells murdering your expensive Knights. Good for Coteaz and Henchmen, useless for Knights, as through BoP they will have a 5+ Deny anyway. Should also probably mention Coteaz through Codex Inquisition. Just for Battle Brother status. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I keep making that mistake mate. It's 2HQ and 3Elite (per detachment). Well I know they're not technically HQ, but seeing as ours are, I included both in a single entry. They're functionally identical anyway. I'll edit the OP to mention that the Allied Inquisitors are technically Elites, to clear that up. Summoning doesn't work with a Teleport Homer. But it does work with a Battle Brother Locator Beacon (from Red Hunters) or a Death from the Skies Grey Knight Stormraven. Which you should always use if you take Storm Ravens, as the upgrades can be cheaper. For real? I hate you GW. I'll edit the OP. >Death From the Skies I like to ignore that turd and concentrate on what our codex says :) Good for Coteaz and Henchmen, useless for Knights, as through BoP they will have a 5+ Deny anyway. Oh true. Actually, because Libby's are Mastery 2, unless the enemy psyker is Mastery 2, the Deny roll actually goes up to a 4+ with the hood. If you're Mastery 3, it's a 4+ Deny against most psykers. Again, time to edit the OP. Thanks for the feedback man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608638 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Good point on the Libby! That would make the hood useful for Knights. But given they have a 5+ anyway, it's not a massive bonus. And Red Hunters come with Adamatine Will, and get a 5+ Deny just like our Knights. ;) C:I Inquisitors are HQ choices, like ours. With single Detachments we could get 4 HQ Inquisitors in total (usually Coteaz +3). It might be worth mentioning how Coteaz messes with Codex: Inquisition. If you take the GK Coteaz, you cannot take any C: Inquisition warbands. As Coteaz makes them Troops, and C:I FoC has no troop slots... C:I Coteaz just makes C:I Warbands scoring. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 If you take the GK Coteaz, you cannot take any C: Inquisition warbands. As Coteaz makes them Troops, and C:I FoC has no troop slots... C:I Coteaz just makes C:I Warbands scoring. (shrug) Just take our version of him then. The Inquisition guy is for other armies I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Well if you know you're taking a GKGM (or Libby) and want a squad or two of Strikes/GKT, then you could always take C:I Coteaz (with three scoring Warbands) and attach him to your Red Hunter BB Allies. Coteaz + Centurion for the lulz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Well if you know you're taking a GKGM (or Libby) and want a squad or two of Strikes/GKT, then you could always take C:I Coteaz (with three scoring Warbands) and attach him to your Red Hunter BB Allies. Coteaz + Centurion for the lulz. Yeah he's pretty dirty with Centurions. Especially if he rolls up 'Perfect Timing', that with lascannons+missiles or with grav cannon is absurd. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3608808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IK Viper Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 When protected I find that a Purgation Squad will wreck a lot of things, specially with LoS on the board. I usually run either a Jokaro squad, or a Purgation Squad in a Bastion in most GK lists. An OMI plus either of these units becomes a real board control problem for alot of lists. No one wants to spend to much time within 24 inches of 20 Psycannon shots with Precieince (OMI has a Psycannon too) It also works pretty well at killing fliers in a pinch, usually netting 6-7 hits on average dice. I really think that GK suffer the most becasue they are so fragile. Not in terms of toughness and saves, but in that there are so few models on the board. I think Landraiders and Rhinos help alot becasue they protect thier contents and also double as LoS blockers that can be used to shield units off from the majority of the enemie's scarry shooting. I find that the thing that GK lack the most is range and AP2 (not rocket science I know) but am having more success running Hybrid lists with GK/Inquisition/ Space Marines as the SM add access to AP and acces to cheaper PA bodies and a variaty of support units. Pure GK don't have the range of model count needed to be dominate in the current Meta. They need some aid from some allies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3611072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 When protected I find that a Purgation Squad will wreck a lot of things, specially with LoS on the board. I usually run either a Jokaro squad, or a Purgation Squad in a Bastion in most GK lists. An OMI plus either of these units becomes a real board control problem for alot of lists. No one wants to spend to much time within 24 inches of 20 Psycannon shots with Precieince (OMI has a Psycannon too) It also works pretty well at killing fliers in a pinch, usually netting 6-7 hits on average dice. The thing is though, Purifiers do all the work Purgators will be doing, but also bring strong melee, Ld9 Fearless (increasingly more relevant), and arguably a better psychic power ('Astral Aim' is hampered by its cover save bonus to the enemy, whereas 'Cleansing Flame' only suffers against 2+ saves or small units/lone models, which you'll either 'Hammerhand' or force weapon against anyway). If Purgators didn't have to pay such an absurd price for their special weapons, I'd see them as worthwhile, but as is they're overpriced and underpowered. I'm also trying to steer away from Fortifications in my guide. Aegis is very common, but its not for every list. Bastions are much rarer, and I can count on one hand the number of people who regularly put down a Skyshield or GI Joe Fortress. Point noted though, Bastions do solve a major problem for Purgators, which is staying alive and staying out of melee. I really think that GK suffer the most becasue they are so fragile. Not in terms of toughness and saves, but in that there are so few models on the board. I think Landraiders and Rhinos help alot becasue they protect thier contents and also double as LoS blockers that can be used to shield units off from the majority of the enemie's scarry shooting. Rhinos are death traps and easy First Blood. Landraiders got worse in 6th, and now we have the Raven, there is really no point to them. I find that the thing that GK lack the most is range and AP2 (not rocket science I know) but am having more success running Hybrid lists with GK/Inquisition/ Space Marines as the SM add access to AP and acces to cheaper PA bodies and a variaty of support units. Yeah Red Hunters are a real boon for us, especially with things like Centurions and Devastator squads. Pure GK don't have the range of model count needed to be dominate in the current Meta. They need some aid from some allies. Well, I think Henchmen let us get away with it to some extent, but yeah, the standard cancer in the top-tier will steamroller most Knight lists with ease. It's depressing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3611979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Caloth Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I also disagree on your assessment of the Grand Strategy ability to re- roll 1s to wound. It's an amazing ability, esp with Purgation or Purified squads with quad Psycannon. If you are going to write a primer, you can't gloss over something because you personally don't like the option, because someone else might find it fits their style. Just like Coteaz is not an auto-include. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3628890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Vidicares no longer have a place? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3628931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I also disagree on your assessment of the Grand Strategy ability to re- roll 1s to wound. It's an amazing ability, esp with Purgation or Purified squads with quad Psycannon. If you are going to write a primer, you can't gloss over something because you personally don't like the option, because someone else might find it fits their style. Just like Coteaz is not an auto-include. You could say the same for Shield of Blades. Why did you omit Shield of Blades? Unyeilding Anvil (scoring) is much better as it nets you wins, due to the best units not being in a troop choice, as proven by the two units you mentioned not being a troops choice and would better suit scoring. Unless you somehow got a Purgation squad in their half of the table to contest an objective. Victory point game? use Spear of Light (scout) to hurt them on turn one. You are getting turn one of course? unless you don't take Coteaz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3629319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 I also disagree on your assessment of the Grand Strategy ability to re- roll 1s to wound. It's an amazing ability, esp with Purgation or Purified squads with quad Psycannon. If you are going to write a primer, you can't gloss over something because you personally don't like the option, because someone else might find it fits their style. Just like Coteaz is not an auto-include. It's a mildly useful buff, which 90% of the time you will ignore in favour of Scout/Outflank or granting scoring status to things that can't be Troops. It only lets you re-roll 1's to wound, which is much less useful than even our base 'Preferred Enemy' re-rolls against Daemons, or the re-rolls to hit granted by 'Prescience'. So, on a scale of 'is this useful?', its below our existing Preferred Enemy rule. That's pretty weaksauce when you just paid nearly 200 points for the chump that unlocks that ability. Keep in mind that its also a D3 roll, so you could end up giving as little as one squad the buff. Which is a general problem with 'Grand Strategy' (GW love randumb tables these days). Vidicares no longer have a place? None of the Assassins are viable in 6th. I guess I should probably mention the Vindicare for old times sake, he's the one that was consistently useful all through 3rd, 4th and 5th. It's a real shame 6th just ruins him. You could say the same for Shield of Blades. Why did you omit Shield of Blades? Unyeilding Anvil (scoring) is much better as it nets you wins, due to the best units not being in a troop choice, as proven by the two units you mentioned not being a troops choice and would better suit scoring. Unless you somehow got a Purgation squad in their half of the table to contest an objective. Victory point game? use Spear of Light (scout) to hurt them on turn one. You are getting turn one of course? unless you don't take Coteaz. Same thing. 'Counter-Attack' requires several things to happen in order for it to be good. Firstly, it's a 'win more' buff, as it does not suddenly make Strikes good in melee, it's mainly useful on stuff like Terminators or Purifiers to make them even more absurd in melee. Secondly, the enemy already know which units have it, so they can always choose to never charge them, thus negating any value the buff would have. Thirdly, in some matchups, you'll never get into melee, unless they make mistakes. The thing is, if I mention all the little tidbits for every aspect of every unit, the OP ends up being a short story long. Hence the point of it being a 'Primer', its a quick and nasty rundown of how Knights are doing in 6th. It's not meant to be the be all and end all guide, I highly recommend people read the codex themselves and of course play the game. I do appreciate the discussion and feedback, but for the purposes of new players or old hands returning to the scene, I think they'd prefer the 'good stuff' up front. That's the thing that annoys me most about most reviews or player guides, where the author spends a lot of time explaining why stuff is bad. Okay cool, instead I could've been reading about the positive and workable aspects, but I'm bogged down in a page and a half about why you should never ever take Stern, or Pyrovores, or whatever it is. Hopefully people do contribute and read our posts to get a deeper understanding, but it's my hope the OP is enough for most to get a general feel. I'm still revising it anyway, so keep up the feedback. I'm sure I'm still missing gems or cool combo's I've never personally encountered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631711 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wait, why are Vindicare's bad? Can't we stick him in a Fortification and have him shoot vehicles, MCs or ICs? I'm new to GK though and maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wait, why are Vindicare's bad? Can't we stick him in a Fortification and have him shoot vehicles, MCs or ICs? Sure, but as I mentioned earlier, Fortifications are an aspect of the game not everyone wants with Knights. The kits aren't cheap and sometimes you won't have the points for it. Assassins are already expensive. I'll do a Vindicare entry in the OP, seeing as everyone is keen for it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Obviously he's over costed these days, but would you say he's more or less than his equivalents/alternatives? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Obviously he's over costed these days, but would you say he's more or less than his equivalents/alternatives? Assassins have no real analogues in other armies. They're pretty unique. Sadly GW cannot into their own rules, so we end up with trash and one mildly useful one that 6th edition meta murders Turn 1 most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 O_O None of the Assassins are viable in 6th. I guess I should probably mention the Vindicare for old times sake, he's the one that was consistently useful all through 3rd, 4th and 5th. It's a real shame 6th just ruins him. Apart from bad bad rules (agian), where wargear based Invulernable saves aren't listed as Wargear, so can't be Turbo Penetrated (Knights or Riptide Ion Shields, one of these come to mind...), the Vindicare is still the best Vehicle ruiner in the game (aside form lol D weapons...). Not only that, his ability to snipe out hidden fists, banner holders and other shenanigans, is priceless. Sure, he's a unit of a single mini, and can be focused. But /meh. Stick him in a bunker. Or Chimera. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3631797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Apart from bad bad rules (agian), where wargear based Invulernable saves aren't listed as Wargear, so can't be Turbo Penetrated (Knights or Riptide Ion Shields, one of these come to mind...), the Vindicare is still the best Vehicle ruiner in the game (aside form lol D weapons...). Yeah, no question, the Turbo-Pen round against vehicles is absurd. However, whether he'll be alive to shoot it is another story. 2 x T4 wounds just doesn't last long these days. Not only that, his ability to snipe out hidden fists, banner holders and other shenanigans, is priceless. Again true, he's never been more relevant (there are a lot of good squad leaders or one-wound characters that do work these days), but again, will he be alive that turn? Sure, he's a unit of a single mini, and can be focused. But /meh. Stick him in a bunker. Or Chimera. Bastion is probably the best choice. Although I'm still iffy about Fortifications. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287508-grey-knights-in-6th-a-primer/#findComment-3633597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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