GrandMagnus Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi, I have resently been reading the daemons of chaos codex and the black legion supplement (I still need to read the latest chaos SM codex) and I came upon a question about the demon princes: We know that demon created in the warp, either as servants of one of the dark gods or some other way, are tied down to the warp and can only enter the material world for a certain amount of time (right?). So when a chaos lord is rewarded with deamon hood will he too be tied to the warp or, since he used to be part of the material universe, can he walk freely through the realms like the chaos marines can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 According to the rules, they do not suffer from Daemonic Instability so they are just as solid as any other model. According to fluff, they are humans who have been augmented. They have been physically changed but they are still physical beings. So yes, they walk around just like a regular marine would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 But when they are killed they are banished to the warp, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathstrike_Chimera Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 They get rid of their humanity completely, and become entities of the warp, so I would think they couldn't stay forever in the material world... but I'm not sure. Interested to hear other opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Being a Daemon Prince, you still have sufficient mortal "weight" to function in the real world as you did before. However you are now subject to banishment and even containment in ways a mortal isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fibonacci Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 It has been a while since I read Soul Hunter but I don't remember The Exalted ever having problems staying corporeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 It has been a while since I read Soul Hunter but I don't remember The Exalted ever having problems staying corporeal. The Exalted is more like a possessed than a Daemon Prince. Parts of the stories have the original memories being accessed by the daemon when they are needed. And the torrent of verbal the daemon receives. Daemon Princes are different. Originally, a champion who is gifted daemonhood would then find themselves part of the warp. They would have to be summoned by those who needed their help. Time has changed that with rule streamlining and simplification. Personally, a Daemon Prince has his own agenda which mortals cannot begin to understand. That's why the daemon primarchs have their own world's in the warp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 The DP in Wrath of Iron is a good example. It still needs to be summoned, and can be banished again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Its noted in the lore that not only humans have become Daemon princes in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Spacefrisian is correct - some of the DP characters in C:Chaos (2nd ed) were originally lesser daemons who performed well and ascended. iirc, angron had to stop and build monuments during the 1st war of Armageddon to sustain his presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 ^^ I can just see him now tapping the pommel of his sword, sat on a rock, while eyeballing his minions as they try to work as fast as they can before he takes said sword to them all. At once. He has never been the patient type so they must have got a wiggle on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Spacefrisian is correct - some of the DP characters in C:Chaos (2nd ed) were originally lesser daemons who performed well and ascended. iirc, angron had to stop and build monuments during the 1st war of Armageddon to sustain his presence. Was that for his personal presence or his armies'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachymike123 Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Spacefrisian is correct - some of the DP characters in C:Chaos (2nd ed) were originally lesser daemons who performed well and ascended. iirc, angron had to stop and build monuments during the 1st war of Armageddon to sustain his presence. Was that for his personal presence or his armies'? it was indeed for himself, although there were khornate daemons with him the bulk of his army was made up of berzerkers. i read it back a few years ago (might have even been around the time of C:Armageddon when they reviewed the history of the planet) that angron was the wager of the first war but had to stop. however, iirc he stopped once and that was when he built the monuments, but in newer fluff he has to continually build them as he advances. linky included, its about half way down the page, in the post heresy part: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angron#.UxZgL_nV_-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 That depends on what the Prince is . Is he a DP created as a DP , is he a demon that build up his own power or was granted more power to become a DP , was he a mortal made prince , was he a primarch [which is very different from a mortal , primarchs were very much warp beings as they were mortals of flesh]. In general everyone can be banished . Dudes that have a physical bodies[primarchs , some of the mortal champions granted demonhood , but not all] can stay outside of warp unaided endlessly , while demon demons go puff without a steady battery powering them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilofix Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 This is the cohesive hypothesis that I've cobbled together from various sources: Original Daemons are Warp-only based entities. They never had corporal bodies and therefore have Daemonic Instability and struggle to exist in the material world. Mortals have have both corporal bodies and Warp presence. Because they have corporal bodies, mortals, do NOT have Daemonic Instability nor struggle to exist in the materail world. When a mortal becomes a DP, they might still have their corporal bodies (even if mutated). In which case they could persist in the material world indefinately. But when their corporal bodies are destroyed, which may also well be the case when they ascend to DP'hood, then they will only have their Warp presence remanining and will have Daemonic Instability and struggle to exist in the material world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 They (DP's) can stay in material realm as long as they want (or for very extended times at least), and kind of come and go between realms as they please ( although in some books they don't seem too crazy about going into the realm of chaos ( big fish here , small fish there ??) ) . Like some one else said , that changes if they get "killed" and may then have trouble staying in the material realm like other daemons do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLifeKing Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Daemon Princes are daemons like another. As a god of chaos is essentially the mass of emotion and experience collected along the history of their specific area of interest. For example Khorne, is the god of war and his being is the very essence of war trough out the ages, the memory of those wars the moment of terror and bloodlust experienced on those fields of battle, every emotion and experience provoked by each clash of a blade, each blast of a missile, each murder. When creating a daemon servant for himself, he parts a piece of that vast mass of war given form.. he practically gives sentience to a certain moment in a battle, or a specific experience of the battle, a fragment of war given its own personal form. Lesser daemons symbolizing battles between individuals, heralds and lieutenants bigger battles and scenarios, where greater daemons and the big guys representing entire wars and campaigns or even the history of war for specific race of faction of people. All the hate, the rage and what other sensations and thought that said combat, battle or war has contained, the daemon is that mass of psychic energy given form. And in order for the daemon to maintain presence in the mortal plane, they need to be fueled by emotions, psychic energy or actions that can be related to the essence they were made from. In the case of the exalted princes, they were not originally a part of their god. But (again in the case of khorne) have instead orchestrated countless wars, genocides and massacres. Have bathed in the blood of cities and worlds uncountable as to have forged a pages in the history of the millennia for the glory of the blood god. So infamous and terrible that they are infused by such mass of warp energy that they could already be counted as daemons, but lack an anchor in the warp that the real daemons have. In order to complete that circle they seek to be accepted by their patron god which confirms their immortal existence and makes the champion part of himself. like signing the contract for immortality in exchange for eternal slavery to the god. Many daemon prince choose to make their home in the warp or simply idle at their new daemon world in the eye and enjoy their vacation from their grim lives :D . While most warp born daemons constantly seek to enter the material plane to feel alive. But some princes choose to stay in the material plane after their ascension to daemonhood, at the head of their war band/legion/cult their presence fueled by the same energies that gave them apotheosis, continuing their war, enjoying the reverence and worship of their followers and feeding on the fear and hate their old enemies feel. But in the case such exalted being is felled by the servants of false emperor or by the hand of a disgusting xenos breed, the daemon slain and banished to the warp like any other daemonkind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMagnus Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 NoLifeKing: That was really well explained, thank you :D But next time, I beg you to put some paragrafs in there, my eyes got quite watery :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoLifeKing Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 NoLifeKing: That was really well explained, thank you But next time, I beg you to put some paragrafs in there, my eyes got quite watery I humbly apologise :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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