Battle of calth....ulterior motives

[recon0321]

Ok we know the word bearers at calth were made up of the legionaries who were deemed not loyal to chaos...but why send the gol vorbak? They seemed loyal I mean hell they were possessed by Demons! Did the Aurelian really expect Erebus to die along with khor phareon?

[karden00]

Of course not. But they had the shards that only senior w b's seemed to have. Their escape was all but guaranteed.

[Tyrannicide]

Wut. Quite the opposite, man. 

 

The Word Bearers at Calth were some of the most devout Chaos worshippers in the Legion. They were viewed as suspect because their fanaticism was seen as a liability to Lorgar's plan.

 

EDIT: I should add that Erebus and Kor Phaeron were specifically sent there out of Lorgar's distrust for them. They were lured by selfish desires and an impure thirst for power.

[recon0321]

Ok so they were too extreme got it!

[FunkyMonkey]

I wouldn't say it's as simple as them being too extreme.  I think uncontrollable zeal is the correct term.  The Word Bearers not at Calth were probably as devout and extreme as the ones at Calth, it's just that the ones at Calth were too blinded by their hate of the enemies of the Chaos gods to be used effectively in a war that still needed fragile plans.  The Word Bearers not at Calth still hated the unbelievers with a passion, but they knew when to put their passion aside to achieve a goal.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but it seemed that a large segment of the Gal Vorbak and aspiring Gal Vorbak were too concerned with shedding blood to earn chaos favor for possession.

 

I wished Kor Phaeron just stabbed Guilliman in the neck with the Anathame shard rather than gloat about going to do it.  I hate over-talkative villains.  I agree that letting your enemies know who defeated and humiliated them is utterly delicious and a thing of monstrous beauty, but that comes after they no longer pose a threat.  A primarch never poses no threat.

[Wade Garrett]

The XVII sent to Calth were those "whose hatred of the Ultramarines burned brighter than their common sense".

 

The Gal Vorbak there were (as stated in ADB's Mark of Calth short story) created from those who hated the most, as their intense emotions made them especially attractive to possessing daemons.

[Blindhamster]

I thought the Gal Vorbak that were sent were the ones that were sort of 'fast tracked'?

[Kol Saresk]

I thought the Gal Vorbak that were sent were the ones that were sort of 'fast tracked'?

Correct. But as Wade said, the candidates were those who "hated the most". Other than Argel Tal, we don't really know what happened to the few survivors of the original Gal Vorbak after Istvaan V except where Argel Tal makes a mention that they've all pretty much gone their own ways.

 

So Calth wasn't really those who were "disloyal", but pretty much the chaff of the Legion. So much for the Hand of Destiny. :P

[Kais Klip]

The "fast tracked" or original Gal Vorbak were possessed without their own consent simply for occupying space that was more warp than real; the personalities didn't have the imbalances that would otherwise lure daemons to posses a soul. The "Gal Vorbak" to follow were seen as impure and artificial copies of the originals; rather than a divine gift they tried to bribe and cajole the daemons into possessing them. The former was a brotherhood, the latter more of a business partnership.

[Kol Saresk]

The ones to follow were the "fast-tracked". They achieved possession by merely drinking Argel Tal's blood and then undergoing a dreamquest.

 

After the Heresy, it would become an even more arduous task of achieving possession, although that little Abaddon short story showed one way as being a sorcerer forcing daemons into the bodies of the dead. Specifically, the daemon who ate the soul of that newly deceased body.

 

Index Chaotica: Possessed shows another method where an aspirant to be possessed would have to seek out "divinely given" targets, collect the individuals and then have a sorcerer or Dark Apostle use those eight individuals to call out a daemon(probably the same daemon who asked for the sacrifices) so it could take control of the aspirant. But none of these are as powerful as the original Gal Vorbak who had to journey into the Eye, be shown the things they were shown and then be killed by the daemons who would then inhabit their bodies. In a way, the Gal Vorbak are not possessed. They are a symbiosis. But theirs was not the fast track. It was the long road. And it can never be repeated again.

[Blindhamster]

which is kind of odd when you get right down to it... why can't more Gal Vorbak be made in the original way? it's more time consuming sure, but surely the method to achieve it still exists.

[Kol Saresk]

I think its because those were the only ones needed to exist that way. The Originals served the specific purpose of being those who enlightened Lorgar, convincing him to take that final step into the Eye. After that was done, there wasn't a need for Possessed like the originals to exist and so, they don't.

[Blindhamster]

you'd think with Lorgars professed desire to reach a symbiotic relationship with the entities in the warp, and the fact the originals were 'better' that he'd have considered the idea of discovering how to make more like them...

[Wade Garrett]

Well, Burias in the Dark Disciple trilogy seemed to be in control (or at least in harmony) with the daemon possessing him, and was pretty powerful to boot.

[Kol Saresk]

Well, Burias in the Dark Disciple trilogy seemed to be in control (or at least in harmony) with the daemon possessing him, and was pretty powerful to boot.

Quite a few of them do. I'm not exactly sure what makes the Originals "so powerful". It's just what Massacre says.

[Wade Garrett]

Gotcha.

 

Could be some kind of ritual symbology thingie, Lorgar consigns his sons to unknown fates in the Warp as the Emperor did to his sons the Primarchs (according to False Gods, anyway) and the result is powerful hoodoo.

[Carach]

or that chaos invested their more powerful daemons into their souls? Because things were at a more delicate stage in the plans back then?

 

or the symbolism involved; like how betrayal of a family-nature is like the purest of all and most powerful for chaos. so too is having these most devout of the emperor's servants innocently/naively corrupted in such a fashion?

 

After that the symbolism doesnt really exist in that context because it has already been done, and the path has been taken. so those people are willingly trying to get the possession through hate and all that jazz can never become as powerful.

[recon0321]

The original gol vorbak are awesome...I think there couldn't be another group similar to them. Like the process was diluted....or something

[randian]

"I should add that Erebus and Kor Phaeron were specifically sent there out of Lorgar's distrust for them. They were lured by selfish desires and an impure thirst for power."

 

I find it amusing that Lorgar, who aspires to be the arch-priest of a creed that holds betrayal as the greatest of deeds and intentionally violating morality as holy, should think that their lust for power to be impure. Power is the only thing they have left.