How are you encouraging people to join the long war?

[Dark Bjoern]

I invide them into my cellar and Show them how to have fun....

...the Night Lords way.

Ave Dominus Nox!

[Zeller]

A question I frequently have to ask my friend who jumps around a lot.

 

Do you like their fluff, their looks, and does the book offer enough variety that you're looking for?

 

If yes, go for it, if no - go play something else. 

 

Personally, despite not having legion rules for years now I still play my Word Bearers (despite constantly and erroneously being mistake for followers of khorne - ignorant fools) with all comer lists that tend to do alright on average. It's just any army. Either you make it work or you don't.

[Trevak Dal]

Sure, for painting and modelling, chaos is a prime army to play. But I only know of myself around where I play that plays CSM as primary nowadays, and I don't blame them for not doing it. Even though we are in the starter box I wouldn't call us a starter army exactly.

 

If the points and army disparity in DV wasen't enough, we also get a lot less stuff in our battle force than the loyalists...

 

I think I'm the only Chaos Player who hasn't dropped flags and either gone 30k or Loyalist in my part of the state.  A lot of my negativity is where I come online and read about what loyalists can do and I see how truly limited I am with what I use.  I really, really am just better off using a loyalist codex, I don't have the connection that a lot of the players here have to a particular legion.  I wanted an assault heavy army.

 

I wish I'd chosen Jumper Blood Angels, because while I don't like the vampire stuff...I love the new Raptor kit, and the Nightblades would be an awesome chapter/warband to make.

[Scribe]

I cycle through a lot of armies. I have friends who love to buy my stuff, and ebay may as well be bookmarked as a favorite...

 

I literally am on my 4th or 5th Chaos/Daemons army in 40K.

 

If you love the army, really, you can enjoy it. If I never looked online, never interacted on forums, I would be happier, I know that.

 

It does help get in character though. ;)

[Trevak Dal]

I could honestly use some encouragement to (re)join the long war. 2nd/3rd edition Chaos player here (pre-3.5 ) and I've always liked Chaos but I don't want to Heldrake spam and was never fond of Cultists or Plaguemarines as they never really fit the kind of army I wanted. I'm not 100% sure of what the meta is but it seems to be a mix of people playing what they think is fun and a few competitive lists (have seen a Riptide or two and at least one Baneblade and/or Shadowsword).

I'm thinking of getting a small Chaos force (I don't think I'll play games above 1,500 - things seem to break down past that point) but it seems there's no way to be good with regular Chaos Marines and extras and I'd want a "pure" kind of warband.

It's either that or Necrons, which I like the look of as well but not nearly as much.

If you are going to want to play in tournaments-you're better served (with what you want) to go with a loyalist army or Necrons. Synergy is there...it's just harder to get it to work for you. If you're not into daemon engines...you're probably better served going with necrons.

[Wayniac]

I could honestly use some encouragement to (re)join the long war. 2nd/3rd edition Chaos player here (pre-3.5 ) and I've always liked Chaos but I don't want to Heldrake spam and was never fond of Cultists or Plaguemarines as they never really fit the kind of army I wanted. I'm not 100% sure of what the meta is but it seems to be a mix of people playing what they think is fun and a few competitive lists (have seen a Riptide or two and at least one Baneblade and/or Shadowsword).

I'm thinking of getting a small Chaos force (I don't think I'll play games above 1,500 - things seem to break down past that point) but it seems there's no way to be good with regular Chaos Marines and extras and I'd want a "pure" kind of warband.

It's either that or Necrons, which I like the look of as well but not nearly as much.

If you are going to want to play in tournaments-you're better served (with what you want) to go with a loyalist army or Necrons. Synergy is there...it's just harder to get it to work for you. If you're not into daemon engines...you're probably better served going with necrons.

More I just don't want to spam. I like the looks of a lot of the engines, even the Helbrute. I've never been too competitive (I mean I'd like to go to a tournament and be able to have fun and hold my own, even if I got stomped by a netlist) but I also don't want to lose every game I play, especially if I choose not to go 3x Heldrakes or Typhus + Zombies or whatever else (I prefer to win or lose based on my tactical acumen not because I can outclass my opponent before we even play). What I'm afraid of with Necrons is basically that they have an old Codex (albeit still good) and that I'd resort to just the typical netlist Nigh Scythe spam and it would get very boring. Sort of like.. I might win a lot but lose fun in doing so.

[Scribe]

Most of the necron book is serviceable. There are far more usable units than CSM simply due to the rules in the booking fitting better with 6th, than the primary punchy leaning CSM book.

[Ammonius]

Some questions for you Brother Wayniac:

1. Are Forge World units on the table? Would you be looking at things like the Decimator or Relic Predator?

2. When you say "pure" warband, does that mean no Chaos Cult troops? No Chaos Marks? No Cultists?

3. Are there any models that you own already that will be auto-included?

4. Are there any models you hate and will not field under any circumstance?

 

The most fun list I have run in the past year or so was based around 2 units of Nurgle-Marked Spawn running in front of a pair of Seige Shield Vindicators. These were backed up by Autocannon Havocs, a Unit of Plain Jane CSMs in a Rhino and a unit of Plague Marines on foot with a Fist/Claw Terminator lord. The spawn and vindicators could spearhead into the enemy deployment zone regardless of difficult terrain, usually backed up by the rhino. I would smash the spawn into any infantry I could reach, the Vindy's would line up to shoot anything in range that the spawn had not engaged, and the mounted CSMs would usually pick their way out of the exploded Rhino and start walking towards an objective :) Really, it was that initial charge, and the fact that everything hinged on it working at least marginally well. That and the clear pucker factor that moving that first 12" caused in my opponent.

[Trevak Dal]

I cycle through a lot of armies. I have friends who love to buy my stuff, and ebay may as well be bookmarked as a favorite...

I literally am on my 4th or 5th Chaos/Daemons army in 40K.

If you love the army, really, you can enjoy it. If I never looked online, never interacted on forums, I would be happier, I know that.

It does help get in character though.

I've pretty much taken to listening to Amon Amarth exclusively while making my Beserker army. Pursuit of Vikings is my favorite (KHORNE! Guide our ships, our Axes, spears and swords, Guide us through storms that whip-and ETERNAL WAAAAAR!!!) because I'm channeling some of the Norse WHF battle stuff into them.

They came from the very deepest part of the Eye-and their descendants entered it according to them some 100,000 years in the past, and speak of "son of Khorne" who had been a gladiator slave who was eventually released by his master in an act of sentiment. The Son of Khorne rose up, and was taken into the heavens by the Gilt Deceiver, made to wear screws in his head that made him Broken. Before the Blood Father found him, the Son of Khorne had become a slave to his rage-and it was killing him. Those that Came Before were of the Son's flesh, and after the Puppet King led his fellows against the Gilt Deceiver and his lackies-Fearsome enemies indeed, they were broken, sundered and Those that Came Before were broken on a Frozen world by one of their own-shackled by the same rage that the Son of Khorne had suffered from.

They waged war after war against their fellows-against aliens, daemons other Warbands and so many legions and empires. None remain from that Time so long ago-the Path of the Blood Father is a perilous one-but with great risk comes great rewards.

They fight for plunder, they fight to crush their enemies, to see them driven before them and to hear the lamentations of their women as they and their children are shackled up and herded as cattle and they are used as chamber slaves to attend the butchers of their husbands and worlds.

[Wayniac]

Some questions for you Brother Wayniac:

1. Are Forge World units on the table? Would you be looking at things like the Decimator or Relic Predator?

2. When you say "pure" warband, does that mean no Chaos Cult troops? No Chaos Marks? No Cultists?

3. Are there any models that you own already that will be auto-included?

4. Are there any models you hate and will not field under any circumstance?

The most fun list I have run in the past year or so was based around 2 units of Nurgle-Marked Spawn running in front of a pair of Seige Shield Vindicators. These were backed up by Autocannon Havocs, a Unit of Plain Jane CSMs in a Rhino and a unit of Plague Marines on foot with a Fist/Claw Terminator lord. The spawn and vindicators could spearhead into the enemy deployment zone regardless of difficult terrain, usually backed up by the rhino. I would smash the spawn into any infantry I could reach, the Vindy's would line up to shoot anything in range that the spawn had not engaged, and the mounted CSMs would usually pick their way out of the exploded Rhino and start walking towards an objective Really, it was that initial charge, and the fact that everything hinged on it working at least marginally well. That and the clear pucker factor that moving that first 12" caused in my opponent.

Answers:

1) No, no FW. Maybe if I won the lottery, but GW's stuff is pricy enough, and FW even more so.

2) Pure as in I don't want to run an amalgamation of units that aren't a cohesive looking force. Some cult troops if they fit the backstory, but I don't want to field say mostly Plague marines with a unit of T-Sons or Noise Marines. I'd likely not want a cult list anyways (just never appealed to me), and I always prefered "proper" Traitor Legions or renegades. I was likely going to do Iron Warriors or even Crimson Slaughter (I read the DV novella and they grew on me)

3) I have nothing other than the paperback rulebook from DV; starting completely from scratch (all my old models were lost years ago) and I haven't played since 3rd edition.

4) Not really, although I never liked Thousand Sons and I don't like using special characters (and think they should still be opponent's permission), and as above not really a fan of just taking 3 Heldrakes and everything doesn't matter

[Kilofix]

Who cares about the dex? I'm purple and I have Daemonettes!

[Minsc]

I don't, mainly because we haven't really gained any new players in my gaminggroup for the last few years who didn't already know what army to pick.

 

If they however, were interested in CSM, I would warn them about the drawbacks of the codex (bad internal balance and that it's overall a weak codex).

If this is not a deterrent I would however show them the many different colour-schemes and talk about the different legions (renegads/warbands can go fnck themselves ok?) and the fluff for the respective legions. 

 

Bah, who am I kidding, I'd tell him (or her!) that he's mixed CSM up with C:SM, and point him to the loyalists. He'll enjoy himself much more over there.

[Kilofix]

Dex aside, show them a picture of Calgar and Lysander. Then show them a picture of Abbadon and Typhus.

[Wayniac]

I'm actually tempted to look at using the normal SM Codex to make a recent Renegade Chapter (if only to have a legit reason for facing other Space Marines since otherwise those battles are silly and out of place, ironic with such a focus on "forging the narrative"), since it really never seemed appropriate for a newly turned chapter to just throw away all of their equipment and have their armor mutated and whatnot like 10,000 year old marines that have been in the Warp for millenia.

[Shuggnuggath]

In fact in a lot of ways Renegade Space Marines would make a lot more sense as a supplement for Codex Space Marines.

[Slave to Darkness]

i converted someone to the cause a few years ago by showing them pikkys in old white dwarf mags. the person in question likes the background for chaos but said the mins were just like normal marines with arrows on the legs,  whipped out wd 150 and showed him some conversions by john blanche, and then showed him pikkys from the issue just before the 2nd ed dex was released. told him to just go crazy with his conversions, and then showed him all the madness that was in realms of chaos to give him some ideas. he is still rocking the spiky ones to this day

[Nehekhare]

I wish phil kelly could read this thread <3

[Forté]

I wish phil kelly could read this thread <3

Don't you mean 'would'?

[Trevak Dal]

I'm actually tempted to look at using the normal SM Codex to make a recent Renegade Chapter (if only to have a legit reason for facing other Space Marines since otherwise those battles are silly and out of place, ironic with such a focus on "forging the narrative"), since it really never seemed appropriate for a newly turned chapter to just throw away all of their equipment and have their armor mutated and whatnot like 10,000 year old marines that have been in the Warp for millenia.

 

That always bothered me.  I guess it could be 'proxy battles' or 'cross training' but really somebody's a traitor.  If one's a dark angel then you already kn-*is shot*

[Wayniac]

 

I'm actually tempted to look at using the normal SM Codex to make a recent Renegade Chapter (if only to have a legit reason for facing other Space Marines since otherwise those battles are silly and out of place, ironic with such a focus on "forging the narrative"), since it really never seemed appropriate for a newly turned chapter to just throw away all of their equipment and have their armor mutated and whatnot like 10,000 year old marines that have been in the Warp for millenia.

 

That always bothered me.  I guess it could be 'proxy battles' or 'cross training' but really somebody's a traitor.  If one's a dark angel then you already kn-*is shot*

 

It some cases it might make sense, there have been inter-Chapter quarrels in the past but I don't recall many that came to actually deploying armies against each other (maybe a duel or a brawl).  I know in the Badab War the Fire Angels withdrew because of the IIRC Charcharodons; they were basically disgusted with them and felt if they didn't leave, they would end up deploying.

 

I just find it funny that GW keeps the fluff with the majority of armies incapable of fighting each other.  Not just limited to the Imperium, Eldar and Tau would be highly unlikely to fight each other on the field of battle either.  Kinda amusing with all the emphasis they put on telling a story, that you really have to stretch the backstory to come up with why Ultramarines and Crimson Fists, for example, are deploying troops against each other.  The old "It's a training simulation" or "Chapter War Games" excuse gets old really fast and really doesn't tell a story at all.

[Sception]

I could honestly use some encouragement to (re)join the long war. 2nd/3rd edition Chaos player here (pre-3.5 ) and I've always liked Chaos but I don't want to Heldrake spam and was never fond of Cultists or Plaguemarines as they never really fit the kind of army I wanted. I'm not 100% sure of what the meta is but it seems to be a mix of people playing what they think is fun and a few competitive lists (have seen a Riptide or two and at least one Baneblade and/or Shadowsword).

I'm thinking of getting a small Chaos force (I don't think I'll play games above 1,500 - things seem to break down past that point) but it seems there's no way to be good with regular Chaos Marines and extras and I'd want a "pure" kind of warband.

It's either that or Necrons, which I like the look of as well but not nearly as much.

The best I can offer by way of encouragement is a list of stuff that "ain't bad", ie that may be good or may be meh, but you probably won't feel frustrated just playing it, provided you're not running up against serious competitive lists (seerstar, screamerstar, revenant/transcendant c'tan, etc):

Daemon Prince (wings, maybe armor, maybe psyker levels, mace, maybe shiver or skull if black legion)

Lord (probably on bike or steed, MoN for T6 or MoK for AoBF, possibly spineshiver or skull if black legion)

Sorcerer (maybe on a bike, Unmarked or MoN, lv3, spell familiar, biomancy or telepathy, memory if black legion)

Warpsmith

Huron

Abaddon (provided you have a delivery vector other than deep strike)

Typhus (see abaddon)

Ahriman (borderline)

Khârn

Be'Lakor (via character dataslate)

Cypher (with one unit of plasmaspam fallen via formation dataslate)

Terminators (if termicide or infiltrating via huron or ahriman, provided no servo skulls in your meta)

Mutilators (borderline, MSU MoN only as deep striking chaff)

Black Legion Chosen (borderline; msu lascampers, character retinue, or small plasmaspam in rhino or inf. via huron)

Basic chaos marines (pref bolter, no mark, no icon, with or without vet, 2xspecial, maybe combichamp, rhino)

Cultists (max size character retinue with flamers or zombie upgrade, or min size reserved obj campers)

Plauge Marines (as Basic Chaos marines, but smaller squad size)

Noise Marines (MSU BMcampers or small to mid sized sonic blaster squads or melee squads with doom siren)

Thousand sons (arguable, borderline, 1 to 2 squads max only in power armor heavy meta in rhino or inf via ahriman)

Rhino (probably extra armor, maybe dirge caster, havok, or combi weapon)

Drake (balefire > hades, but both playable)

Spawn (large squads, unmarked escorting juggerlord, MoN otherwise)

Bikes (MSU meltasquads or larger character escorts)

Raptors (deep strike special weapon suicide squads, or larger retinues; basically worse bikes, but still not awful)

Predator (trilas or just las turret or autolas)

Vindicator (Borderline)

Forgefiend (borderline, maybe with the extra ecto, but don't trade out the hades cannons)

Mauler (in pairs supporting spawn)

Havocs (auto or las, let the champ man a quad gun or icarus for precision shot)

Oblits (MoN only)

While FW certainly favors loyalists, there are some decent toys for chaos as well:

Chaos Warhound (multi D weapons in mid sized escalation games, awesome model)

Chaos Reaver (even more D weapons in big APO games, super awesome model)

Chaos Thunderchicken (D weapon flier for escalation, immune to most other D weapons)

Chaos Fireraptor (decent mid ranged gunship, actually better than loyalist equivalent)

Chaos Storm Eagle (not quite as good as loyalist, but still decent gunship or transport, don't try to do both)

Chaos Spartan (not quite as good as loyalist, but still worth the cost over standard chaos landraider if you want one)

Giant Spawn (slow, but decent number of attacks & very cheap for a monstrous creature)

Decimator (pricey, but decent firepower & all important armor 13 on a walker, better use of helbrute model)

Contemptor (less good decimator, iirc, lacking best loyalist options, but another option for helbrute use)

Blight Drones (requires plague marines, not up to drake standards, still decent, can be taken in squadrons)

Plague Hulk (not bad, iirc, requires plague marines)

Blood Slaughterer (not terrible, iirc, but requires 'zerkers, which are pretty bad)

While we may not get as much out of allies as those with 'real' battle brothers, we do have a number of options on that front worth mentioning:

Orks (fill out numbers, supplement rush list with nob bikes & mobs in open transports, lootas, decent counts as feral world barbarians)

Necrons (supplement flier spam, decent shooty options, wraiths, decent counts as dark mech)

Daemons (natural allies, good assault rush support, flier spam support, divination, scoring units if you don't like cultists)

Guard (armor spam via allied tank squadrons, backfield campers, thematic fit for traitor guard or dark mech)

That is not a negligible amount of at least semi functional options to work with in constructing casual lists for yourself. And if you dislike the more mutated or distinctly chaotic elements of the chaos marines, there's always 30k - with its legion rules, arguably more balanced lists, and lots of marine oriented options, plus the dead smexy primarch models - I'm all about the warped & mutated 40k era chaos marines, and even I'll have a hard time not picking up that Horus model when it comes out.

...

[Wayniac]

To be honest the new style has started to grow on me, it looks distinct which always was the point versus, say, John Blanche's 2nd edition conversions that looked like loyalist Marines with darker/damaged armor.  

 

Still being new to 6th, not sure of some of the terminology used... "Dakkafiend" is a Forgefiend I take it?  I have to say I like how that model looks :D

[Sception]

Dakkafiend is a forgefiend with hades autocannons, as opposed to ectoplasma (which looks cooler, imo, but is less good, to the point of being frustrating rather than fun, ime).  Likewise dakka drake is drake with hades autocannon.

[Iron_Within]

I don't. If someone is interested in Chaos I will tell them about them giving them a clear opinion with balance on both sides (Read: Great Fluff, Terrible Rules).

[daboarder]

 

I wish phil kelly could read this thread <3

Don't you mean 'would'?

Not after I'd be through with him