minigun762 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 *I'm aware "best" is a loaded word. In this sense, I'm thinking in terms of tier 1 choices, understanding that many factors are in play* Preface aside, where can we add a happy go lucky skull face to get the most bang for our buck? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Replace with inquisitor. Greater benefits, greater wargear, significantly less points cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Sad but true. Else: Death Company+Chaplain really magnifies his buffs compared to any other pairing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 All true, Greggles, but that's not exactly helpful considering the question, is it? I stick with the Old Ways of the Iron Hands, so I've never used a Chaplain; don't even own a model of one. That being said, from a purely theoretical point of view, I can see him being of great benefit in any squad that wants to get into close combat. His greatest benefit to a squad is the rerolls to hit (since crozii became crap), so anything that relies on hitting like a ton of bricks will benefit from his presence. That being said, I think he can do the most good with standard Assault Squads (they need the help), or Terminators (of any either stripe) and Centurions. All three of these squads in general have few models and relatively low attack densities, so upping the number of hits helps them when clobb'rin' time comes around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrified Templar Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 If you want to use the chaplain I guess sticking him with assault terminators, large crusader squads, honor guard and possibly assault squads would be the best option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Cohort Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I would say either vanguard or honour guard, a chaplain's special rules are more effective the more attacks you have and those 2 squads can put down huge attack numbers, 5 honour guard and a chaplain charging will probably wreck anything that doesn't have a decent invulnerable assuming you have an appropriate set of power weapons on your honour guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I love Chaplains. I have six of the models. The obvious is to put them in an assault type unit. DC offer the best "bang for your buck" however I've found Jump Pack units to be excellent. You have the mobility to almost ensure a charge without a transport plus the unit is usually built for Assault anyway. Many people don't credit Assault Squads but I love them. Bike units are also good for this but I like being able to "jump" over a piece of terrain and then hammer into the enemy. So pick your poison with that. DoC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 If you want the most "mileage" from the re-rolls I suggest large squads that are only about average in assault. (Like Crusader Squads or Assault Squads) Since they do most of their damage through volume and their lower cost when compared to elite units makes it less of an issue when you start losing models. If you want to make sure something is completely and utterly dead in one turn then put him with beat stick units like terminators or honorguard. Always make sure you have at least one character model in the squad to keep challangers off the chaplain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Agree with lysere. In a perfect world, you'll stay in combat on your turn, and break the enemy on their turn. Thus allowing your CC unit a chance to escape from a shooting phase, and re engage an alternate target on your turn. Putting an inquisitor with the book, or a chaplain with honorguard/assault terminators, will generally result in you killing your target a multitude of times over, and exposing you to a turn of shooting. It doesn't make much sense, but it tends to work better in an edition where being outside of close combat usually spells death for your marines. Sorry about not responding to the actual question earlier. =/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Replace with inquisitor. Greater benefits, greater wargear, significantly less points cost. I'm not savvy with the new I book so I wasn't aware this was a superior option. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Good points made in here. I think it comes down to what you define as "best" - best results from a unit or best benefit to a unit? If it's the former then put him with your heavy hitters to make sure they hit harder still - stuff like Termies and Honour Guard. If it's the latter then put him with an Assault Squad or cheap Vanguard Squad and send them after enemy infantry. The Chaplain is pretty straight forward to use, I just think of him as an upgrade for an assault unit and that pretty much covers it For the record I prefer to stick him with the weedier units to increase their output, the specialists tend to take care of themselves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 The Chaplain is pretty straight forward to use, I just think of him as an upgrade for an assault unit and that pretty much covers it For the record I prefer to stick him with the weedier units to increase their output, the specialists tend to take care of themselves Keeping him with a weaker squad might help him live longer as well. You're more likely to use it as a bully squad and not engage the Bloodthirster or Hive Tyrant over there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 mini, Inquisitor in terminator armor, with a daemon hammer, storm bolter, with a book of Liber Heresius (hatred, counter attack, scout, split fire, fear)is 10 points less then a stock chaplain in power armor. He's also +1 W, +1A, ld 10, grants stubborn, but -1T. Issues with taking him. 1) Can't go in an allied transport (good for foot slogging, scouting/infiltrating/outflanking/deep striking). 2) Str 6 SUCKS 3) To grant the book specials, you have to pass an ld10 check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The Chaplain is pretty straight forward to use, I just think of him as an upgrade for an assault unit and that pretty much covers it For the record I prefer to stick him with the weedier units to increase their output, the specialists tend to take care of themselves Keeping him with a weaker squad might help him live longer as well. You're more likely to use it as a bully squad and not engage the Bloodthirster or Hive Tyrant over there Another part of this is that Honor Guard and Vanguard already generate A LOT of attacks; five Honor Guard with power weapons and the Chapter Banner generates twenty-five attacks on the charge from just five models, and most times you'll have a Chapter Master of some stripe with them, which another six or seven attacks on the charge depending on equipment. They don't need the help, they're likely to annihilate anything they touch anyway. Terminators, Assault Centurions, and Assault Squads, by comparison, generate three attacks per model on the charge; almost half the number. To deliver maximum damage to the target, these units *need* the help, whereas stacking Hatred on Honor Guard is the difference between dead enemies and dismembered corpses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3612915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I'm not sure what you are going to support, but I strongly suggest combine some guys from white scar into your army. H&R gives you the upper hand at controlling if your opponent can shoot and charge or not if you can get close fast enough. Unless it's a combat monster, I ALWAYS charge everything I don't want it to shoot or charge me. Even it's a combat monster I may still charge since I don't want to be charged. After two rounds of fight you can roll H&R and shoot and charge again. I love this trick. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3613006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The Chaplain is pretty straight forward to use, I just think of him as an upgrade for an assault unit and that pretty much covers it For the record I prefer to stick him with the weedier units to increase their output, the specialists tend to take care of themselves Keeping him with a weaker squad might help him live longer as well. You're more likely to use it as a bully squad and not engage the Bloodthirster or Hive Tyrant over there Another part of this is that Honor Guard and Vanguard already generate A LOT of attacks; five Honor Guard with power weapons and the Chapter Banner generates twenty-five attacks on the charge from just five models, and most times you'll have a Chapter Master of some stripe with them, which another six or seven attacks on the charge depending on equipment. They don't need the help, they're likely to annihilate anything they touch anyway. Terminators, Assault Centurions, and Assault Squads, by comparison, generate three attacks per model on the charge; almost half the number. To deliver maximum damage to the target, these units *need* the help, whereas stacking Hatred on Honor Guard is the difference between dead enemies and dismembered corpses. The difference between dead enemies and dismembered corpses comes in when a target squad has it's toughness reduced by something, and is charged by a full honor guard with banner, chapter master, and almost full re-rolls. I don't know why I did this in a game but it was awesome. Chapter champion killed a chaos lord in single combat. I usually just like sticking my chaplain with whatever unit is going to be in front, but the assault termies are nice, especially with claws. When you re-roll everything, and every model is rolling at least 4 dice, it gets pretty bloody. Of course I've also had a ten man crusader squad and a chaplain kill 4 FNP termies on the charge. (Stupid BA) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3613044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 I don't think this is best but I did have an idea of running 10 assault scouts with a chaplain and tossing them in a raven. My thought that assault scouts are so maligned as are chaplains and if you ran them alongside cents or bike squads etc people would ignore them. Save them up for a late game assault onto objectives. As far as tried and true goes back in 5th running a chaplain with a 3/2 split LC / hammy terminators was pretty good. Lots of rerolls only problem I ran into the split should have been 2/3 cause they wiped opponents to fast and bogged on mc's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3613101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickeh Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 mini, Inquisitor in terminator armor, with a daemon hammer, storm bolter, with a book of Liber Heresius (hatred, counter attack, scout, split fire, fear)is 10 points less then a stock chaplain in power armor. He's also +1 W, +1A, ld 10, grants stubborn, but -1T. Issues with taking him. 1) Can't go in an allied transport (good for foot slogging, scouting/infiltrating/outflanking/deep striking). 2) Str 6 SUCKS 3) To grant the book specials, you have to pass an ld10 check. I take pretty much the same, bar the liber heresius, but with servo skulls and a psycannon as well as lvl 1 psyker. The psycannon is exceptionally useful, essentially being an assault cannon +1. Can't Reccomended him enough, however the TDA does prevent sweeping advances, which can be an issue at times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3613502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Aye. That's why I usually attach him to assault terminators, who can't sweeping advance anyway. You should try with the book, the ability to split fire would probably be useful with the psycannon depending on the squad you stuck him with! I didn't mention the psyker part, because that would make him a heretical witch I'd have to burn. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3613558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Chaplain is so cool though, one of those incredibly iconic SM units, like the Land Raider. That is reason enough to push me into using it over some mortal in fancy armor with a book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3615070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azash Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Chaplain is so cool though, one of those incredibly iconic SM units, like the Land Raider. That is reason enough to push me into using it over some mortal in fancy armor with a book. When playing for fun...Rule of cool > everything else! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3615074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greggles Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Who says you can't use the chaplain in terminator armor as an inquisitor in terminator armor. There are so many inquisitor variants and types...virtually any model can represent an inquisitor. Their own belief systems and thoughts clash with one another. For all your opponent knows, the chaplain in terminator armor is just an inquisitor that wears a skull helmet. You'd really just have to change the staff into a hammer and you'd be good to go. I've seen a few kitbashes done this way. Rule of cool always applies. If you love the chaplain in terminator armor, then USE HIM! The actual size and bulk of the model is more determined by the terminator armor then the stature of the being inside. Just check out some of the forgeworld guys. They're huge. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/DefaultFW/large/rex.jpg And he's not even in terminator armor. (just artificer armor in this version). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3615548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Logically, you won't want to kill every model in a single combat phase with the likes of Honour Guard. This is because you will usually be charging and certainly be shot in the opponent's turn. A Chaplain actually compromises your capacity to stay safe! Add a Chaplain to an Assault squad or Scout, and you create a cheaper assault unit that is still fairly dangerous against enemy Troops choice level opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287678-best-squads-for-a-chaplain-to-support/#findComment-3616330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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