Legion Traits: An effort to reflect different Warbands

[Scribe]

First, a disclaimer that this is not intended to be a catch all, or even codex level replacement, but instead a supplement, of Legion or Archetype based traits that would apply across a Detachment.

 

I am proposing this as a specifc solution to the issue perceived by fans of the original Chaos Legions, and to also provide additional themes and rules for Warbands.

 

Premise 1: The First Founding Legions, had identifiable proficiency, tactics, and predispositions in their approach to warfare.

 

Premise 2: The Geneseed of the Legions has a meaningful impact in creating differences between the First Founding Legions and/or Chapters/Warbands that have a direct lineage to those First Founding Legions.

 

Premise 3: Unlike Loyalists, a Warband of CSM may contain various lineages. As such it can be assumed that not all of these are genetically driven predispositions, but also learned, or trained behaviors.

 

EDIT: Added Premise 3, as per Excessus.

 

We know this song and dance. We have all been around this topic since our 4th Edition codex dropped. I will endeavor here to 1, not post inflammatory or trolling language, and 2, to present a potential solution to the problem of a game where Loyalist Space Marines (SM) retain their identity at a mechanical level, while Chaos Space Marines (CSM) do not.

 

I am not saying this is the One True Way, the Only Way, or even a good way, but its mine, for now.

 

This approach is to be modeled on the concept as presented succinctly in the 6th Edition of Codex: Space Marines.

 

Each First Founding Legion will have 2 traits, one to be applied across the breadth of the army if possible, and the other more focused upon an aspect of warfare that said legion would traditionally or historically, support.

 

The intent is to reflect the entire Codex: Chaos Space Marine scope and to not limit the options a player can bring, while also adding something to those units that reflect the divergent practices, and predispositions of the genetic and tactical legacy of the Founding Legion.

 

I will not claim that these are balanced, nor that they represent every variation, or option of various Traitor First Founding Legions, but I do believe there is a historical and fluff driven basis for the rules I have written here.

 

Themes

 

While I greatly desire and connect with Legion based traits, not all share my zeal or viewpoints. I hoped to write these with those folks in mind just as much, and so themes are applied to each set. Thematically I approach them as follows.

 

III - Warband of Excess- Sonic Weapons, and increasing power with increasing stimuli (Combat Drugs)

 

IV – Warband of Resolution - A focus on and practiced skill regarding the destruction, or holding, of hard points, and mechanical affinity.

 

VIII – Warband of Fear - Fear, Terror, Psychology, and comfort in Darkness.

 

XII – Warband of Slaughter - Assault, Close Combat focus.

 

XIV – Warband of Resilience - Durability, endurance.

 

XV – Warband of Sorcery - Powers of the Warp, Fate, Divination.

 

XVI - Warband of the Elite - Elite, forged in constant battle, Champions.

 

XVII - Warband of the Crusader - Fanatical, True Believers.

 

XX - Warband of the Tactician - Flexible tactically (deployment options), while also working to hamper the plans of others.

 

You will note, I tried to not buff any one unit within a specific set of traits. I didnt want 'Raptors Legion', but some things are too iconic, or have a specific link to a Legion and have for some time.

 

Also, the concept of tiers exists, where you could take a unit of CSM, apply the Legion Traits, and a Mark and Icon as usual.

 

Iron Warriors with the Mark of Khorne and Icon would be a potent assault force.

 

World Eaters with the Mark of Khorne and Icon would also be a potent assault force, though slightly different.

 

Note: I make no claim to balance here, GW admits its not their focus, why should we? That said, I am not trying to break the game either, and would love to have your feedback on this list.

 

1. Are these in character and 'fluffy'.

2. Are these game breaking?

3. What would you change?

 

Yes some of these are...appropriated from other factions, but most have a historical or fluff basis.

 

-

 

When selecting your Primary or Allied Detachment from Codex: CSM you may optionally assign select from Codex: Legion Warbands to fill that Detachment.

 

Note: These traits can also be used to represent Renegades or Warbands, and do allow for CSM to Ally within the same Codex, when selecting separate Detachments such as Emperors Children with an Allied Detachment of Iron Warriors.

 

III Legion - Emperors Children

 

If a mark is selected (it need not be!) it can only be the Mark of Slaanesh.

 

1: Sonic Weapons - Models in this Detachment may exchange any Heavy Bolter or Combi-Bolter for a Sonic Blaster, or Autocannon, including Reaper Autocannons, for a Blastmaster, or Twin Linked Blastmaster respectively for free.

 

2: Combat Drugs - As per the 3.5 Chart, choose at beginning of Assault Phase, prior to declaring charges. Select 1 to 3 items. At the end of the phase, roll a D6 for each model in the unit, x the number of items selected. For example 5 marines that take 2 powers would roll 10 dice. On a 6 the Model overdoses and takes a wound with no method of avoiding it (saves, or FnP). If only a single item is selected, there is no threat of OD.

--- Move through Cover

--- +1 WS

--- +1 S

--- Ignore first failed save completely, unless it inflicts Instant Death

--- +1 A

--- Fearless

 

Edit: Combat Drugs as per daboarder, modified very slightly from the 3.5 version

Edit: Added an option for Fearless as per Rain.

 

IV Legion - Iron Warriors

 

1: Siege Craft: Chosen, Obliterators, and Havoc Squads have the Tank Hunters Special Rule and add 1 the Result when rolling on the Building Damage Table.

 

2: Iron Within, Iron Without: Stubborn when in Cover. All Characters in this detachment gain the Master of Mechanisms rule. IC's may purchase Mechatendrils for 10 points, and further have IWND.

Edit: Dropped Stubborn in CC, as per hellrender

 

VIII Legion - Night Lords

 

1: Sons of Darkness: Either through genetic predisposition, sorcerers manipulation, or an eternity in the Warp, models from this Detachment with this rule have Night Vision.

 

2: Lords of Terror: Any model or unit which must take a Leadership Test, for any reason caused by a model or unit with this rule is at -1 Leadership. This stacks with additional modifiers for Combat resolution or any other negative modifier, and applies to, but is not limited to, Morale tests from Shooting or Close Combat, Pinning Tests, Fear tests, and Tank Shock. In additional, all models including Walkers and MC's, count as having Assault Grenades.

 

Edit: Added assault grenades as a Vox/Scream/Howl equivalent as per Rain

 

XII Legion - World Eaters

 

If a mark is selected (it need not be!) it must be Mark of Khorne

 

1: Sons of War: All models with this rule are Fearless in Close Combat, and have Hatred (Everyone!) in the first round of combat regardless of if they initiate combat.

 

2: Rage unleashed: Units comprised completely of models with this rule may assault from a Vehicle that has not moved in the that turn, including if it was destroyed in the previous player turn. Models with this rule and Furious Charge also gain +1 Initiative on the Charge.

 

XIV Legion – Death Guard

 

If a mark is selected (it need not be!) it must be Mark of Nurgle

 

1: Death, unrelenting: Models with this rule gain Slow and Purposeful, however may still Overwatch, and are Stubborn.

Edit: Slow and Purposeful as per Brother Heinrich, compared to just Relentless.

Edit: Made Stubborn, modified Rains suggestion.

Edit: Modified to give them back Overwatch.

 

2: The Rot: Models with this rule gain FNP(6+) as their nerves are deadened to pain. Vehicles gain It Will Not Die, if they do not already have it.

 

Note: I would likely nerf Plague Marines in an ideal world (FnP 6) as I feel they have enough defensive benefits.

 

XV Legion – Thousand Sons

 

If a mark is selected (it need not be!) it must be Mark of Tzeentch

 

1: Sorcerers of Tzeentch: Models with this Rule who also have the Psyker rule, automatically pass any Psychic test, and do not need to roll. In addition, they gain 1 Mastery Level, to a maximum of 4 and may choose select from Divination in addition to their regular

options.

 

2: Threads of Fate: Each independant vehicle or model, or unit completely composed of Models with this rule (including Vehicles) may re-roll any ones for a game turn, once per game. This is usable in your, or your opponents turn, but declare as such at the start of the turn. Note, if an IC is attached to a Squad, if either have already used this rule, then neither may do so again.

 

EDIT: Nerfed to 're-roll any ones' instead of 'any dice' but increased it to a game turn.

 

XVI Legion – Luna Wolves, Sons of Horus, Black Legion

 

1: Reforged Legacy: All models in this detachment gain Veterans of the Long War, and Stubborn, at no cost. As well, chosen are always troops.

 

2: Victory, no matter the odds: Models and units with this rule do not get destroyed in a Sweeping Advance, and instead continue to fight in subsequent rounds of Combat after falling back 2D6, stopping within an inch of Impassible Terrain, or Enemy Models. In addition,

any model in a Challenge gains +1 Initiative, Rending and FNP(6+).

 

XVII Legion – Word Bearers

 

1: The Pantheon: A Unit with this Rule which purchases an Icon, that does not have a Mark of Chaos, may ignore the restriction, and requirement for the specific Mark of Chaos mentioned for the Icon, while retaining its rules. In addition, if the Icon Bearer is destroyed, the Rule remains in play to reflect the mark of chaos upon the soul of the models in the unit.

 

2: Unholy Crusade: All Models with this rule gain the Crusader USR. Characters and Independent Characters, also gain the Zealot USR

 

XX Legion – Alpha Legion

 

1: Hydra: Models with this rule gain Infiltrate if not in a Transport, if the unit is held in reserve and deployed within a Transport, Outflank applies as normal. In addition, any model or unit in reserve may add or subtract 1 when determining if arriving from reserve, and has Acute Senses.

 

2: Subversives: Cultists from this Detachment gain Scout, Infiltrate and + 1 Leadership. Your opponent must add or subtract 1 on their reserve rolls (your choice) when rolling for a Unit to arrive from reserve, this modifier can only be applied to a Unit once per game.

 

--

 

Warlord traits, as we all know are random. GW does not appear to care if all Warlord traits are useful. Since this is pure wishinglisting anyway I'm going to forget the fact that GW appears to go with 2 great, 2 average, and 2 duds, in every Warlord Trait List.

 

I am again approaching these from a perspective that this army is meant to be in someone's face, making them question their place in the face of the power of Chaos.

 

Legion Warband - Warlord Traits

 

1. Unrelenting Soul - The Warlord is infused with the power of Chaos and once per game, gains the Eternal Warrior rule until the start of your next turn.

2. World Ender - The Warlord has both Fleshbane, and Armour Bane rules.

3. Trophy Taker - Your Army gains 1 Victory Point for each enemy character slain by your Warlord in a Challenge.

4. Immovable Object - Your Warlord is a Scoring unit.

5. Siphon Soul - Once per game, as Per Psychic Shriek cast by a Mastery Level 3 Psyker.

6. Praetor - At the start of the Player turn, the Warlord selects one rule that applies to itself and any unit it joins. Select from Furious Charge, Tank Hunters, Relentless, Hammer of Wrath, Move Through Cover, Smash

 

EDIT: Updated the Warlord traits, toned them down a bit.

 

Again comments are welcome, and if you read this far, thank you for your time.

[Yogi]

Very nice and true to lore. I have no criticism. Just letting you know someone read it.

 

Rage unleashed would be awesome, so awesome that the devs would give it to loyalists.

 

I'm not competitive enough, to judge it in that way.

 

But yeah the dark gods speak to you, and it doesn't appear to be madness.

[Brother Heinrich]

I actually really like that ruleset. The only thing I would tweak is giving Death Guard slow and purposeful instead of simple relentless. It still gives them relentless however reflects that they are a steadily advancing infantry force that does not pursue assault past it's immediate objective to break enemy lines.

[Rain]

I like it, except that BL seems to be a bit over the top. No dying to sweeping advance, and free VotLW, and free stubborn, and a bonus to challenges (with forced challenge being a major pain in the current codex). Just seems like a lot compared to the other legions, at least take out the challenge bonus, I'm not really sure what that even has to do with BL fluff. Also, all cult legions should be fearless in my opinion, they are bonkers and utterly beholden to their gods, except for maybe some followers of Tzeentch, but Nurgle and Slaanesh should definitely be fearless.

 

Also the Night Lords bonuses are kind of crap compared to a lot of the others, Night Sight is an obvious one, but make the second power "Howls of Terror" basically represent the shrieking and vox bombardment before/during a NL attack by making all models count as being armed with assault greandes as well as giving the -1 to LD to represent enemies being disoriented by the psychological warfare. This would also make Warp Talons better.

 

Not that it matters of course, but fun stuff regardless.

 

Come to think of it, the challenge thing would work better for Emperor's Children. They are probably the best duelsits among the Traitor Legions, and might work better than Power from Pain, which besides already being a hallmark of another race might also be a bit strong for Meq since DE armor saves are generally on the wrong side of not there so the FnP helps pick up the slack.

[Excessus]

You forgot: Premise 3: Unlike loyalist chapters, warbands of the legions are not always entirely filled with astartes with their geneseed.

[Brother Heinrich]

You forgot: Premise 3: Unlike loyalist chapters, warbands of the legions are not always entirely filled with astartes with their geneseed.

 DAMMIT EXCESSUS WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD SOMETHING HERE

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/3d29f5a857664a228f304c5fb81c6fe9/tumblr_mru7ioJvF21r61vzwo1_500.gif

[daboarder]

would you then remove the cult units?

 

Otherwise you still have the disconnect between cult units and just "marked/deathguard" units.

 

either match the cult warband bonuses to the units or scrap the units 

 

yes I am saying it, for a sufficient points drop I would accept plague marines losing FNP. If it meant I could finally have some god damned consistency.

[Scribe]

Thanks for the comments. :]

I've made some edits. I hadnt made the connection on SnP, it makes more sense for sure, and daboarder, I didnt want to go there (changing core units) though I 100% agree that it could (nay should?) be done for consistency across the entire detachment which is the complete point. 

 

I added the part about assault grenades to NL (or Lords of Terror Kol) as well.

 

Now, you all are probably seeing a few themes here.

 

1. I feel CSM is a book that wants to punch people in the face.

2. I feel forced challenge is fine, as we want as a book to punch people in the face.

3. Like Black Templars got (oh the comedy) we need some help in those challenges, or its just a bloody waste!!

 

I'm fine with having Black Legion be my spiritual, hellish, Liege. Thats why they are so beast in CC, and especially with their champions. These are by extension the champions of Abaddon. I feel it appropriate to make them good, after all, they may be most commonly less buff in a general sense compared to say Nurgle, Slaanesh, or Khorne marines, because they may not have the love of a god.

 

I do want these rules to reflect training/preference as much as Legions, so Premise 3 is fine by me!

Ideally, each set is generic enough to be a template for something, (see the themes section) while under the heading of a 'Legion' to satisfy those of us who need to scratch that itch, a lot.

 

Regarding Emperors Children and the Power from Pain, perhaps switching it back to Combat Drugs?

[daboarder]

right, so long as I get appropriate consistency I'm reasonably happy, thats my big personal bug bear with this codex. And to be fair, plague marines were only Marked CSM in 3.5

 

edit: though I wouldn't give them SnP without giving the characters IWND as well.

[Scribe]

Well thats another question I had actually.

 

Should a 'traits' IC's especially get something to further differentiate them from the main?

 

On one hand, these are the best of the best, so sure it could be appropriate. On the other, I really just like the idea of a consistant set across the board, which is obviously where I landed for the most part, like back in 3.5. MoK did X, if you where a marine, a terminator, a havoc, a raptor, or a Lord.

 

You know?

[daboarder]

Well thats another question I had actually.

 

Should a 'traits' IC's especially get something to further differentiate them from the main?

 

On one hand, these are the best of the best, so sure it could be appropriate. On the other, I really just like the idea of a consistant set across the board, which is obviously where I landed for the most part, like back in 3.5. MoK did X, if you where a marine, a terminator, a havoc, a raptor, or a Lord.

 

You know?

Depends on teh traits, I merely suggested that as it is part of the Iron hands traits and they don't have an associated drawback like SnP, that being said they don't have T5 across the board either so maybe its ok this way\

 

I'd also go combat drugs on slaanesh and change the +1I on the charge from khorne to a permanent +1Ws (thats still what they are missing right?)

[Excessus]

 

You forgot: Premise 3: Unlike loyalist chapters, warbands of the legions are not always entirely filled with astartes with their geneseed.

 DAMMIT EXCESSUS WE'RE TRYING TO BUILD SOMETHING HERE

 

http://24.media.tumblr.com/3d29f5a857664a228f304c5fb81c6fe9/tumblr_mru7ioJvF21r61vzwo1_500.gif

I'm trying to help darnit!

 

http://derpicdn.net/media/W1siZiIsIjRmMWJjMzVmOTQ1YjcwMTcwODAwMDAwMSJdXQ/1307__safe_derpy%2Bhooves_animated_screencap_cloud_lightning_jumping_pronking.gif

 

Besides, that Thousand Sons trait is very OP if you don't need to roll psychic tests. A re-roll would have been good enough, but they can already buy familiars except aspiring ones, so just make aspiring ones be able to buy them too.

 

Also, making all the units mini-fateweaver for themselves, isn't that a bit too good? That would be something the warlord could have perhaps...

[Scribe]

Ok cool, check the Combat drugs daboarder.

Re: Thousand Sons. I was thinking of making 'reroll any 1's' similar to the Wolf Banner, but I'm of the opinion that 1KSons are in need of help, in a major way. Its once per game, and only for a single phase. Is it solid? Hell ya.

I can see how it may make for a blender in CC, maybe just put it on Rubrics? Nah I already am giving myself the 'no no' look as I want to stay away from units...

I do intend to crack out Warlord Traits as well.

[Excessus]

If it was once per game like the wolves perhaps...though it would be tricky to keep track off over the course of the battle. A Thousand Sons unit is expensive, yes, but against the right opponents (marines) they are quite nice to have.

 

Heck, the most effective my TS have been ever was at the start of 6th ed, before the current chaos codex came out. The MoT they had made them lvl 2 psykers, and they could exchange doombolt for rulebook powers (telepathy back then, they didn't have biomancy until 6th ed codex). So I used several units and cast telepathy spells like a madman! :D Invisible troops, check, puppet master and hallucination, check! It was gorgeous! So, with the +1 mastery level the Asp. Sorcs would get from your suggestion, coupled with the ability to buy a familiar, they could roll 1 tzeentch firepower spell and 1 biomancy/telepathy spell. That would change the unit completely for the better!

[Scribe]

Yeah it is just once per game, for a phase in that player turn. So is it a killer, for a round? Yes. Are Tzeentch armies fairly small? I believe so? I think its a decent enough balance really to make a unit awesome for a round of combat. A bit of upkeep for sure.

 

I've added Warlord traits as well to the end of the first post, tomorrow, Relics. :]

[Ammonius]

Great start! Two things that jump out after a read through or two:

 

For Iron Warriors: Iron Within, Iron Without: What does Stubborn do for a unit embarked in a building? Per the BRB page 78 "unshakable nerve" units embarked on transports become fearless, and entering a building works like embarking a transport.

 

For Death Guard: Death, Unrelenting: The fact that Slow and Purposeful removes the ability to do overwatch is a deal breaker.

[Hellrender]

I'm not sure the Iron Warrior traits represent them so well. First of all, the siege rule is (exactly??) like the Imperial Fist one. Wether its good or not, that just isnt cool.

 

Also, stubborn in buildings? What about the Khornate Iron Warriors that assault breaches?

 

With reading the HH books, aswell as Storm of Iron, i got the impression that the Iron Warriors know exactly when to move forward, how far to move forward and where to have artillery strike. None of them are atm represented with the current chaos dex.

 

Now how to represent it? No idea :)

[Excessus]

Just one thing...

 

This thing would fit better in another place on this forum though, like the "Homegrown Rules" part.

[Nehekhare]

replace IW 2: iron within, iron without with "machine empathy" from C:SM IH chapter tactics. there is a snippet about the IH wanting certain parts written by perturabo about the fusion of men and machine removed from the codex astartes because they use the same procedures. this would leave the IW pretty much with daemon engine rules for everybody.

[Trevak Dal]

Very nice and true to lore. I have no criticism. Just letting you know someone read it.

 

Rage unleashed would be awesome, so awesome that the devs would give it to loyalists.

 

I'm not competitive enough, to judge it in that way.

 

But yeah the dark gods speak to you, and it doesn't appear to be madness.

 

They do that, I'm going to that Book.  I'm tired of getting shafted-I don't have the mark of Slaanesh here, though GeeDub would seem to think we all do.

[Xenith]

How about granting an IW warsmith an 'orbital' barrage?

 

You an then get rid of the tank hunters, which is the obvious power choice.

 

IW use pinpoint accurate blasts to weaken their foe before the assault.

[Nehekhare]

 

get rid of the tank hunters, which is the obvious power choice.

 

would you really accept the IW having anything less than the "siege specialist" rule of the IF?

[Scribe]

@Ammonius - 

 

Re: Iron Within, I've never even used a building in 6th, so that explains that. Will change.

 

Re: SnP, yeah I dont like that either, back to Relentless.

 

@Hellrender

 

Re: Shared Trait, its true, but they shared it in Index Astartes as well. It's really too iconic imo.

 

Re: Assault breaches, your still in cover yes? So you'd still be Stubborn.

 

@Nehekhare, I didnt want Iron Warriors to share 2 traits.

 

How about instead

 

Iron Within, Iron Without: Characters in this detachment gain IWND and Master of Mechanisms rule.

 

Siege Specialist is too iconic to me to give up.

 

@Xenith 

 

I dont think Tank Hunters is that powerful in the meta, at least not locally, Monster Hunter maybe... :p

 

Orbital Barrage may be an option, but let me know what you think of the new Iron Within, Iron Without.

[Hellrender]

I would rather represent them with more accurate blast attaks (like d6 scatter instead of 2d6). But chaos has no real artillery to make us of that rule.

 

Also, compard the black legion traits to the iron warrior traits. I like the black legion one alot, but the iw one feels lacklustre compared.

 

Edit: just read reply of scribe. I like the masters of mechanisms, maybe not wit iwnd AND stubborn. Keep stubborn, get rid of iwnd.

[Scribe]

Even still?

 

EDIT: Cool. So now they keep the siege craft as we would expect, they are stubborn in cover, and even aspiring champs can repair things. IC's getting IWND and the ability to improve their repair chances.