What makes a fun game?

[Biggabertha]

Hello everyone!

 

After playing some more minor games here and there (nothing over 1500), I wondered what'd really make for a fun game for both sides. (or rather, I'm bored and would like to re-stir up conversation/discussion I've had before and want to know if anyone's changed their minds)

 

 

We all know those players that play to win (WAAC (Win At All Costs)), those that play just to show off how much money/time they have, those that play because it's cool and then there are those that have their own reasons (or an amalgamation of different reasons) but what makes a truly fun game?

 

 

 

Playing with the really cool units was my first thought - I'd have something like VIndicators, Dreadnoughts with dual Autocannons, Terminators with Plasma Cannon/Assault Cannon/Heavy Flamer just because they look cool - or Lightning Claws! Tacticals that have Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons, Scouts fulfilling their intended duty as snipers or close combatists.... even Assault Marines with Flamers aplenty!

 

But I've noticed how more and more (Chaos) Space Marine players are just going for the standard (Cyclone) Missile Launcher loadout and that's fair enough but we never, ever get to see the more exotic pieces of equipment we have to offer. Land Speeder Vengeance, Dark Talon and Nephilim to speak of a few...

 

Would those necessarily make for a fun game though? Granted, personal house rules would be great (for example, as long as you pay for them in the points, all of your Terminators can have Heavy Weapons or all of your Tacticals can go to 16 men per squad for full Crusaders) and they can get fun or sour very quickly (ever faced a squad of 10+ Obliterators all with Twin Linked Lascannons? (Assault them next turn only for them to Flamer you on the way in = OUCH!))

 

 

 

tl;dr

What do you do to play for fun? Do you mind losing so long as you got to field "that" unit of yours?

[Komrk]

For me it's a combination. Sometimes I just like fielding a fluffy list. My Raven Guard force is fluffy and not kitted for optimal opportunity cost. I mean, two lightning claws, that's 30 points for 4 attacks on the charge with my Vanguard Vets and I lose the chance to bring a pistol or a powerfist with them but I'm having them copy Corax's kit and damn are they fun, wrecking squads like no tomorrow.

 

Another thing I find fun is having a challenge. For example in a 1k game against DKoK I had a total of 10 scouts, 10 Veterans (5 Stern/5 Van), ArtArmor HQ, a drop pod and a Stormtalon against 3 Earthshakers, 9 heavy mortars, 2 engineer squads (1 with hades drill), and a death rider command squad. I was heavily outgunned and outnumbered and that made it challenging and I managed to draw with the only thing I had left on the board was the Stormtalon with 1HP. 21 Infantry models and 2 Vehicles vs 12 immobile guns, 20 infantry models, and 5 cavalry models and I managed to survive.

 

As for house rules, my group is currently working on some house rules that are either common sense like letting Psykers buy specific powers for 15pts, or Warlords buy traits for 15pts, or specific/fluffy changes like letting SM Tac Squads using CT:RG buy jump packs at 3pts/model. All of the rules we're making have to be agreed on by everyone which helps balance everything out.

 

In the end it comes down to what you enjoy personally, the above are just what I do for fun.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

A fun game is a game that you play using what you want to use, neverminding the opponent or the result. If you're worried about losing that will make your game less fun, so your mindset must be to enjoy the game even knowing that youmight lose.. In this case you face it as a challenge. You know that across the board is a WAAC so your challenge is to see how much damage you can make.  Even in defeat you can take a victory and have fun  if you set your goals realistically.

[Gentlemanloser]

For me, a fun game is one that is neck and neck with your enemy.

 

Each turn it's too close to call, it could go either way.  You're trying to outsmart, and outplay your opponent, and they are trying to do the same to you.

 

 

What makes an unfun game for me is a much longer list.

 

Any game that I steam roll my opponent, or they steamroll me, any game that is held up by rules quieries, any game where obscenely lucky or unlucky rolls dominate the match.  They're no fun.  Any games that get bogged down in tedious rules and rolling (like Lo,S 50 hits /sigh) start to suck the fun as well.

 

You know the game isn't fun when someone calls it before the end.

[march10k]

A fun game?

 

1.  real terrain, not stacks of books and cans of coffee

 

2.  fully painted armies (doesn't have to be GD-quality!)

 

3.  Beer

 

4.  Did you notice that only one of those was capitalized?

 

5.  at least 75% casualties on both sides

[SvenONE]

Well seeing as how we all play Dark Angels, if we wanted to go the WAAC route we would most likely be playing another codex. So fun is always the name of the game for us!

 

I think a fun game is a close game. The least fun games I've had are where I'm essentially a spectator to my own game when my opponent is just letting loose a ton of things I have no defense against.

 

For instance, foolishly this weekend I agreed to play a friend's 4th edition Daemonhunters rules. Not fun, and I packed up my models on the start of turn 3. The next game I played an ork player which was a lot of shots and a lot of saves and was evenly matched up and came down to me winning because of Belial slaying the warlord (in a purge the alien game that's 3 points!!), even if I didn't it was a fun game that was back and forth the whole way with no clear victor until the final rolls.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Close game seems to be a theme for sure. I play with a friend who doesn't own much terrain (neither do I need to fix that) but we put plenty of things to make it work. Usually brick and mortar stuff. However we noticed that we were having the objectives based stuff be kind of boring. So we decided we would break it down into a morale victory and the by the rulebook VP sort of thing. usually we have about 4 players and we end up mixing the rules for what is the most enjoyable games yet. For instance we throw out the allies matrix and use our own.

 

example a.) last game Nids player "allied" with Necron player. We allowed complete use of all rules on both armies. Aka any special rules crons or nids had could be applied to any unit. What we said was the Necrons performed some kind of mind control over the Nids.

 

I played DA and my partner was a Imp guard with a single squad of GKTDA. Our mission was to kill the Single Cron Monolith (it was controlling the Nids) and kill the Hive Tyrant. That was our morale victory.

 

Since they rolled for the bunker of terrain we split it up to where our side got an extra 1000 pts to play with. This allowed it to be more realistic we thought. If the Crons had the Nids and no desire to move why would they? So facing gunlines isn't fun for anybody (Imp guard came up with this idea) so we get a few more points and get across the field while they shoot the crap out of us. We lose a ton of models I deepstrike some DW right in the middle of their lines (a few in questionable spots but Belial did us all proud) they lost some guys and we all had a great time over a few hours.

 

Getting to the point I think its a lot harder in a pick up game when you don't know the opponent. Playing against WAAC players is easy for me "You win." And I go play someone else. Not out to take on triple Riptide or figure out the most efficient way to use plastic models to destroy your foes. I'm in the Air Force I do that for work. I am interested in having an army that meets my version of the fluff go against someone else who has a army they like and we come up with a 40K realistic scenario and play a game and waste a few hours. Get those epic moments where the guards men overwatches with his laspistol and takes a wound of a TDA Libby and then promptly kills him in melee with a Chainsword. (Not mine but epic to watch) To me those are good games.

 

My group if you want to bring a unit that could be OP (Tau Riptide for me or broadsides with Missiles) then I bring it up before the game starts. Let them adjust their lists and if they still don't feel like taking it on I leave it. Usually as long as we aren't spamming "awesome units" one or two powerful ones make the game a bit better and allow for some pet hates among players. Darn Hive Tyrant and stupid Necron Scarabs.

[BrotherLibrarianGiles]

I agree with what is said above. In some kind of potentially approximately correct order:

Fun-boosters
1. A good story (a very hard/uphill battle can be fun if it has a good background story) 
2. Close game (or a game where neither player is certain he'll lose or kicks too much butt)
3. Utter total chaos (multiplayer games with teleporters/ underground storm of magic battle for the pass...)
3. Story enhancing dice rolls (the dice gods prove that Marbo is as heroic as he should)
4. Getting your favourite unit to work (this is true whether the unit in question is weak or not)
5. Playing like minded players (Both players are set on having a fluffy/competitive/crazy game.)

Joy-killers
1. Skewed dice rolls (the dice gods clearly favouring either side)
2. One sided games (running up your green tide/elves against a Tau/dwarf gunline; when the forces are badly matched)
3. Too much competitiveness (another personal one - it's a gorram game! I want to play the game and have fun, not abuse the rules and win.)

[Biggabertha]

Thanks everyone - this is really what I wanted to hear!

 

I definitely agree with the Beer/alcohol, lol - having a good time is really what it's all about and I agree, since we're all mostly DA players here, it's really good to know how laid back we are about this. (I like those House Rules too! Will have to ask around if people are cool with stuff like that on my end!)

 

Disciple of Caliban Sgt., I'm very impressed with your approach towards these games - my friend can never let go of his "leave no man behind" and the "in the army, we would definitely never do something like this." While I appreciate and really enjoy his company, it's so easy to forget that we're playing with, at the end of the day, for fun.

 

I also agree with how being steamrolled or steamrolling someone really takes the fun out of things too. Too often, have I gone up against opponents (that [TA]Typher has described where you can BAAAAARELY see part of a vehicle and they blast it to smithereens with Markerlights etc. (or maybe I'm just extra bitter...)

 

 

(Finally, does age, sex, ethnicity, hygiene or body shape influence your enjoyment games at all..? I knew someone who would never take our second best player seriously just because she was female.)

[captain sox]

To me a fun game consists of 3 things.

 

A table.

 

Models.

 

An Opponent.

 

To me, the game is just that. A game. I really don't care if I win or lose. There's so much out of my control that I can't get mad if things don't go my way (ie bad rolls on my side, good/ lucky rolls on his). If I play against a WAAC player, I know I'm going to lose bad or get tabled. That's not my problem. That's their prerogative and more importantly their reputation. I'd like to be know in gaming circles as the fun guy who is easy to have a game with, make some sound effects and tell a story. I like to show new people to the hobby how much fun you can have if you think freely and make a list that goes against what the internet says you have to take. 

 

Most importantly I live by what my late father taught me. To be a gracious winner, and to be an even more gracious loser. 

[SvenONE]

I'll tell you what though, getting tabled by a well painted army is also still enjoyable.  It's one thing to see someone passionate about the game, but really anyone can be passionate when rolling dice.  But taking the time and respecting the craft and your models' appearance, that's also a really respectable thing and I try and always play with painted models.

[Cyfax]

I agree with what the others said, painted armies and a decent gaming table with actual terrain goes a long way. As far as units or army lists go, I don't think using 'fun' units  means you're going to have a bad game.

 

Most of the games I play I try to do something else, try new units and so on. What I would advice is just to balance things in your army list, and think of what the 'fun' unit's role is and see how that fits in your list.

 

If I look at the 'fun' options you mention, those are all pretty solid units as far as I'm concerned. I actually don't think we have any units that you really should never use (...although I don't have experience with the LS Vengeance). Sure the nephilim and darkshroud are a bit overpriced, but they're definitely not horrible/useless units.

 

- Want vindicators? they'll draw a lot of fire..so consider a bike HQ with a PFG and perhaps some devastators to take out the real threats for your vindicators.

- Dual Autocannon dread...I actually use that quite often excellent unit to take out flyers, or enemy transports. But at the same time, you would need e.g. lascannon devastators for heavy armor to balance your list.

- Terminators are good with any weapon I'd say, and again just think of how you'll use them in your list. They're tough units, but make sure you have weapons to deal with hordes or ap2 weaponry and so on.

 

Well you get the point, you can easily play with 'fun' choices just balance things. What I usually do, is take a 'base' of 2 tactical squads, librarian HQ and devastator squad with lascannons..which gives me a very solid base to play with and experiment with other units.

 

Usually what makes our games fun is just trying new things, make 'normal' lists..sure we all like winning but imo battles are the best if both sides can enjoy it. But I guess that's down to the people you play with too, I always play with friends that also keep the 'fun' factor in mind. Hell yeah we all want to win, but we all try to make it fun for others too.

 

And you'll always have some battles were the dices just won't work for you, can't do much about it..next time your opponent will probably be cursed..don't let it spoil the game. Usually if I'm out of dice luck, I just accept it's probably not going to be a win today and try some 'crazier' things try tactics I normally wouldn't and so on.

[[TA]Typher]

Not playing against Tau on boards like this.

 

Small hills, no cover and no useful LOS terrain. Having a whole army that can shoot anywhere on the board on turn one and continue that for the rest of the game is like getting a getting a root canal through your buttcheeks.

 

I watched this game for about 2 minutes before I gave up. At the end the Marine player was pretty much tabled.

 

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z389/typher/3b852f8f-ea1d-446e-8555-115cf7f7e38b_zpsf2628316.jpg

[march10k]

I think the tau player in your pic would say "the only unfair fight is the one that you lose..." I can't wait for the IG codex, I fully expect it to do unspeakable things to tau and eldar...

[elmo]

(Finally, does age, sex, ethnicity, hygiene or body shape influence your enjoyment games at all..? I knew someone who would never take our second best player seriously just because she was female.)

 

Only hygiene as I find it a shame that some of the wargaming community has yet to discover that soap and deodorant have been invented. I am thinking of having a tin of deo with me and offer it to people who had a bad case of BO as it made the game less enjoyable for me.

 

For me a good game consists of:

Non beard players who are there to play and not to win no matter what they have to do.

Good table

Painted armies 

Give and take - if I see my opponent doing something stupid I like to ask him to reconsider as every game is a learning experience. I would expect the same in return.

Beer - but not so much that control is lost as I have some expensive and time intensive models on the table and I would like to take them home in one piece thanks very much. My LR crusader has had the antenna broken off 3 times in one game!

[Master Avoghai]

(Finally, does age, sex, ethnicity, hygiene or body shape influence your enjoyment games at all..? I knew someone who would never take our second best player seriously just because she was female.)

But maybe she got second because most of the players didn't take her seriously... :f34r:

 

I used to know a female WHFB players who did play very well, and who knew how to use any attributes the Emperor had granted her with to influence the opponent's psychological state :P

 

 

Like Elmo I really didn't understand the notion of hygien of some players... I think that's one of the reasons why I don't play tourneys...

 

Though I remember a regular opponent at my store when I was young... It was really curious.

I made an appointment with him in the store in the beginning of the afternoon to have a game. We met, placed the terrain, roll dice to choose side and start to deploy. Everything was fine.

And we launched the game... Man, at this moment, it was like an entire squad of burgle marines had thrown their rot grenades in the store. 30 minutes later, the manager even went out from a the reserve with a gigantic lemon fragrance spray and started empty it in the store.

 

The guy was fine but once a game started, he used to feel the pressure if being watched playing and his choices being discussed... That was impressive...

[Mc_luhvin]

My friend and I (that plays chaos) always have a blast whenever we play games, we haven't sorted anything in the way of a board yet, but a large piece of cardboard with polystyrene terrain is enough to learn the joys of war gaming so far, we are on the way of painting our armies and all out games are fun and enjoyable.

 

The best moments we have had

-cultists over watching and killing three ravenwiing

-predators absolutely annihilating a daemon prince the turn it drops In

-skull cannon of khorne taking out 3 terminators in one go(damn ones!)

- making 5 out of 6 6+ invulnerable saves with mark of tzeentch

 

It's moments like these that really make it fun for me

 

Edit: damn phone

[Tanhausen]

Nice thread!

Most stuff has already been pointed out, but can't refrain from posting!

IME, the BEST games are those where nothing is at steak...only the rights to pick on your opponent for the rest of our days :P

Nowadays I can only play on tournament days, but I'm lucky enough to have a nice group of 50ish players where you can find a bit of everything but mostly they are competitive and easy going.

The games I most enjoy are those where trashtalking is the bread and butter and we cry and cry for our lack of luck instead of acknowledging that maybe we are useless generals.

Epic combats, absurd shots, nail biting turns..those are the days :)

Constant rules discussion, generous moves ( movement + 1d6 inches...), "I see you but you don't see me" LOS...that is what wears me down pretty fast.

As for hygiene, I seem to come across a few situations of bad breath...but thats where my chewing gum comes handy! Sometimes I even offer it non-used

[ValourousHeart]

For me it really comes down to the person I am playing. A couple of really great friends can make even the most one sided games fun.

 

Once I have that great opponent, I really enjoy the nail biters, the come back rallies, the Hail Mary passes, and the down to the wire games.

 

Losing or winning is never a defining feature of a good game. In fact I think that a tie is more of an indicator of a good game.

[Shubniggurath]

What makes a gun game? I always like playing against fluffy and balanced armies. Otherwise, I live for those small epic moments which can change the game.

Recently, I was playing against my friend's Chaos SM army. I charged Abaddon and his terminator retinue with my DW Knights. First turn, they beat the chaos terminators while the Knight Master challenged the Despoiler and managed to live a few turns! Last turn, my last knight even defeated Abaddon (he rolled two 1 for his armor save!). It was great, definitely the highlight of this game. Then my friend got his revenge during another game, in which his chaos lord on a juggernauth killed 14 terminators...