'Normal' Alpha Legion?

[Grim Dog Studios]

After coming out of a mini-break I want to start a new heresy-era force after deciding against wolves which I have already done for 40k. I know I want to do the Alpha Legion, which would have to be my favourite legion. 

However after watching 300, and the new 300: Rise of an Empire (Brilliant films, historical inaccuracies aside), I've decided I'd like to model some of the sergeants with hoplite type shields (hoplon?) and horse hair crests. The problem that rises here though is the entire Alpha Legion made up of sneaky sneaky types?

Or can I fit this sort of thing in there. I'm trying to avoid bling, as I'm just not into golden armor and that sort of thing, but are horse hair crests and large shields still too much for the Alpha Legion. These would be the only thing setting the Officers apart from the main legionary troops, as I'd like to go for a uniform MK IV army.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Cheers, James

[infyrana]

From my understanding, every legion prior to the primarch findings, had an entire legion of basic unmolested marines that had access to all types of equipment available to them.

 

After finding the primarchs, the individual armies developed their characteristics, but often still had access to all the basic stuff as and when needed.

 

I don't specifically know of the Alpha Legion and if they got rid of anything, but i cannot see why you wouldn't be able to include all types of units - and therefore shields for breacher siege marines (how you model them is your choice).

 

Of course, if you wanted to make it fluffy, then you will need to read up and find what would be more suitable.  I say go for it, it will just add another additional element to your army should you wish to employ it :)

[Reinholt]

Keep in mind, with the Alpha Legion, that the following is true:

 

- They are sneaky, underhanded gits.

 

- They still can punch people directly in the face, sucker or otherwise.

 

I suspect they would have a number of genuinely fighty units. After all, they were at the Isstvan V drop site, and not just as spies. I think the BL stuff focuses on the spy part so far because that is what makes them different from the other legions for stories, but that doesn't mean they don't throw down. They just overprepare/scheme before doing it.

 

Thus, going with that look for units that are deployed to fight seems legit. It's just not what they'd sneak around with.

[Kais Klip]

Take a look at the Black Library Weekender thread where the topic of 'normal' AL is touched on.

 

The answer, aside from always being yes in this hobby, is fluffwise a sound yes; the Alpha Legion is still a legion of Astartes, and those legionnaires are just as good at bashing brains out with rocks as the Wolves or 'Eaters.

 

On a more technical aspect, its easy to validate obvious outward markings for squad leaders (shennanigans like non-visual spectrum paint or beacons aside) as providing the most reliable method of identifying the chain of command present on the field; while part of it is similar to the whole Astartes camouflage-is-for-cowards approach, a significant portion of reasoning comes back to ease of use and effectiveness in an enviroment where 'warfare has come back full circle' such as that within which the Astartes, be it XXth or Xth, flourish in.

[Perrin]

Whilst I agree that the Alpha Legion will have shooty-shooty stabby-stabby elements to it, just like any Legion, I think marking out sergeants and other officers really doesn't fit.

It's fine for other Legions, 8 foot tall superhuman killing machines that they are, disguising rank would be cowardly and dishonourable to the Legion, but for the Alpha's whole We are Legion, I am Alpharius, Heads of the Hydra theme clearly displaying who the officers are seems wrong.

Different weapons, hoplite shields, different poses etc is all fine, but horse hair crests specifically for officers is too identifying. These are guys who have cosmetic surgery to ensure they all look the same, it's a bit of a waste to then single some out with helmet candy.

I think giving a whole squad crests would be fine though, or a whole army, because it isn't identifying a sole officer.

This is just my opinion based on the fluff mind, it's your army so do what you want with it

On the other hand, fluff-wise there are marines (usually Terran-born) that don't agree with their new Primarchs teachings. Lhorke from the World Eaters for example, Iacton Qruze etc, so you could have an army that is led by a commander who doesn't believe in the whole I am Alpharius shtick, and has been sent off on his own with his company to fight in isolation.

[Hellios]

I could imagine a guy who is just a rank and file legion member all dressed up.

 

"Sir, we have located the enemy command centre!"

 

"Excellent! Launch an offensive now!"

 

"Sir, we have been reprelled."

 

"Did their commander survive?"

 

"Uhh... It turns out it was just the janitor."

[Hyaenidae]

Wikipedia the US military's USSOCOM, and look at the varied different groups, and their respective tactics and equipment, that fall under Special Forces Command. From Direct overt action groups, like the Rangers, to the seriously dark ops stuff, like SAD.

 

Apply THAT to the Alpha Legion, and you can have something absolutely badass. Much cooler than the "We is Sneaky Sneaky!" crap.

[Excessus]

Even though they are labeled as "sneaky", they would still need rank&file grunts for an assault. They still need a main battle line when fighting other legions, and those formation needs obvious commanders...though if those are the real commanders, who knows. ;)  Since it's a young legion, we use mostly Mk IV and such, with older marks sprinkled in and used for repairs...but other than that, I guess the Alpha Legion breachers would still use Mk III because of the thick armour, and so on...

 

Go to town with it James, shields and top knots are just fine. The Alpha Legion is all about utility and efficiency, if there is a tool, we'll use it!

 

 

Referencing with a picture of Alpha legion terminators:

 

http://images.wikia.com/warhammer40k/images/3/39/Camillarus_Cataphractii_Termis.jpg

[depthcharge12]

Wikipedia the US military's USSOCOM, and look at the varied different groups, and their respective tactics and equipment, that fall under Special Forces Command. From Direct overt action groups, like the Rangers, to the seriously dark ops stuff, like SAD.

 

Apply THAT to the Alpha Legion, and you can have something absolutely badass. Much cooler than the "We is Sneaky Sneaky!" crap.

Yeah the Marine Force Recon has something like "Green Missions" where it's pretty much recon in force, blow shtuff up, and just cause enough ruckus to distract the enemy. Then there are "Black Missions" where it's all stealth and just recce the area, watch troop movements, and all that fun bush wookie-ing. But I'm sure you know more as being in the military lol

 

 

 

Then there are groups that don't have names, and move into bases in the middle of the night, and just do spook stuff. When I was originally going for the marines, my high score either put me in the nuclear program or intelligence spook...both have questionable moral stuff o.0

[Hyaenidae]

That'd be SAD, man. Those are the dudes that make people disappear without a trace, and are untraceable themselves.

 

Scary stuff, when you do enough research.

[Xin Ceithan]

FW has TANKS in AL colours. TANKS are not so steathy...

IMO AL is about getting the job done by any means neccessary. And if that is shields and crests and in your face tactics, so be it.

[Legatus]

 

The problem that rises here though is the entire Alpha Legion made up of sneaky sneaky types?

 

In 2nd Edition the Alpha Legion were noted for their "terrifying coordination" on the battlefield, and their attacks "kept the enemy under relentless pressure while they sought a weak point in their defenses". In mid 3rd Edition (Index Astarets article) they became a little bit sneaky. Still mainly fighty, just using dirty tricks. In the Horus Heresy series they were then completely turned into "secret agent" Marines. In the Index Astartes they had left the sneaky stuff to cultists and special operatives that related between the Cults and the Alpha Legion. In the HH series the Marines themselves cinstantly went undercover. In 2nd Edition, their MO was decidedly more martial.

[Kol Saresk]

The First Heretic makes mention of "Alpha Legion war machines". Neither subtle nor sneaky, albeit vague in description. So +1 for not always sneaky.

[Excessus]

As Legatus says the Alpha Legions hallmark is "terrifying coordination", the infiltration tactics is just one of many parts of this. Using varying forces and coordinating them to pinpoint DS, to time outflanks perfectly and such would be their thing. And as Xin says, they don't have the moral, philosophical or cultural stops for not using any tool they can, including shields and other gear.

 

 

If a certain scenario would require a legionnaire to wear a frilly dress then by Alpharius they would send one out to do that, and he would wear it with skill and pride!

[Emperors Teeth]

I always saw them as using stealth and guile as a tool to an end rather than it being the be-all-end-all of the Legion character. I imagine them forming up on the field of battle as any other Legion against some enemy who, when they call out the big guns, or their most powerful weaponry are suddenly surprised when it's not there or is missing key components. Or the paperwork was lost and no-one has the key.

[Wade Garrett]

FW has TANKS in AL colours. TANKS are not so steathy...

 

Urskuar E. Creed begs to differ.

[DuskRaider]

I think this is where the Hydra symbol takes on new meaning as well. Each head represents another method of warfare that the Legion has at it's disposal. IMO, Alpha Legion are probably the most versatile Legion of them all.

[Karthak]

I think this is where the Hydra symbol takes on new meaning as well. Each head represents another method of warfare that the Legion has at it's disposal. IMO, Alpha Legion are probably the most versatile Legion of them all.

Wouldn't that be the Dark Angels?

 

"Guilliman noticed details of particular weapons carried by the Dark Angels – beam and projectile weapons of various kinds that even he did not immediately recognise. The First Legion had arsenals containing devices unknown to all the other Legions. The Dark Angels had been the first created, and their history predated all other institutions of the Legiones Astartes. They were, in many regards, the prototype. It was said that during the latter years of the Unification War and the first years of the Great Crusade, before the other Legions had been constructed, the Dark Angels had known and done things that no other Legion was privy to. They had built their strengths and identity in that era, in isolation. That identity had needed to be complete. When there was only one Legion, that Legion had been obliged to contain all specialisms. Guilliman knew that the six hosts or ‘wings’ of the Dark Angels represented specialisms of every school, at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa."

- Unremembered Empire

[DuskRaider]

No, to hell with the First Legion. Fair weather Traitors...

[Legatus]

 

I think this is where the Hydra symbol takes on new meaning as well. Each head represents another method of warfare that the Legion has at it's disposal. IMO, Alpha Legion are probably the most versatile Legion of them all.

Wouldn't that be the Dark Angels?

 

"Guilliman noticed details of particular weapons carried by the Dark Angels – beam and projectile weapons of various kinds that even he did not immediately recognise. The First Legion had arsenals containing devices unknown to all the other Legions. The Dark Angels had been the first created, and their history predated all other institutions of the Legiones Astartes. They were, in many regards, the prototype. It was said that during the latter years of the Unification War and the first years of the Great Crusade, before the other Legions had been constructed, the Dark Angels had known and done things that no other Legion was privy to. They had built their strengths and identity in that era, in isolation. That identity had needed to be complete. When there was only one Legion, that Legion had been obliged to contain all specialisms. Guilliman knew that the six hosts or ‘wings’ of the Dark Angels represented specialisms of every school, at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa."

- Unremembered Empire

 

You know, there is a Legion/Chapter whose main tagline was non-specialisation in exchange for maximum flexibility and diversity since back in 1st Edition.

 

"Some Chapters offer more special troops and unusual combinations of weaponry, but few rival the Ultramarines' flexibility."

- Armies of the Imperium (2nd Edition Epic, 1991), p. 8

 

"While others made a way of war their own, and applied it like an iron stamp to all situations, the Emperor's Children never held to a single mode of warfare. Their victories show a more diverse application of strategy and tactics than any of their brother Legions, save perhaps the Ultramarines."

- The Horus Heresy - Book 1: Betrayal, p. 114

[Excessus]

The difference between the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legions is probably that the Alpha Legion as a whole is arrogant. They think they konw best, no, they know they know best about how to attack a certain problem. They go out of their way to prove that their method is the best, and only get ire for it. So they dig deeper into their methods and try more and more obscure and non-linear ways to win, again and again, more and more!

 

The Alpha Legion is the last legion to be created, their crusade starts off when other legions have hundreds of conquered worlds behind them. They want to prove themselves at any cost, and if it takes a shield equipped to do that, then by the Emperor they will do it!

[Grim Dog Studios]

Thanks all for the replies!

I will go ahead then and get to work on the Alpha Legion!

I shall be posting up an army list later this evening to get the ball rolling, as I've had one in my head for a while.

Cheers, James

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I'm curious as which Rite of War (if any) you're planning on using for them; I was going to build a XX Legion HH army, but my impatience for rules got the best of my and I defaulted to my Xth instead.

[Grim Dog Studios]

I'm curious as which Rite of War (if any) you're planning on using for them; I was going to build a XX Legion HH army, but my impatience for rules got the best of my and I defaulted to my Xth instead.

 

With Extinction hopefully just around the corner, I was just going to be modelling up the basics (tactical squads etc) without using a RoW until I get my hands on a copy to write a proper army list with AL goodies.

[Honda]

 

In 2nd Edition the Alpha Legion were noted for their "terrifying

coordination" on the battlefield, and their attacks "kept the enemy

under relentless pressure while they sought a weak point in their

defenses". In mid 3rd Edition (Index Astarets article) they became a

little bit sneaky. Still mainly fighty, just using dirty tricks. In the

Horus Heresy series they were then completely turned into "secret agent"

Marines. In the Index Astartes they had left the sneaky stuff to

cultists and special operatives that related between the Cults and the

Alpha Legion. In the HH series the Marines themselves cinstantly went

undercover. In 2nd Edition, their MO was decidedly more martial.

 

All of which are true. ;)

 

I'm just hoping that the AL can deep strike their tactical squads (per Legion).

 

That would be awesome.