'Normal' Alpha Legion?

[Bung]

Maybe you should look up the old Index Astartes stuff.

 

The main difference between the Ultramarines and the Alpha Legin described there is, that Guilliman worked on his Space Marine Bible with the believe that with this every Space Marine knew what to do in every situation while Alpharius style was more independet decisions by his legion, even by his grunts.

[Legatus]

The Index Astartes article of the Imperial Fists says the same about the Codex doctrines (all ranks are able to make tactical decisions and are encouraged to act on initiative). But then a few months later GW needed a "bad guy" to confront the Alpha Legion, and instead of using the Imperial Fists, who were described as inflexible, and who were described as having had frequent clashes with the Alpha Legion even during the Crusade, for some inexplicable reason they decided to use the Ultramarines instead.

[Wade Garrett]

The Ultramarines were the "bad guys" in the confrontation with the XX?

 

We are talking about the same Index Astartes article where Alpharius reacts to criticism that his plans are overly convoluted and take too long by deliberately delaying an attack on a city so he can utilize an insanely complicated plan to capture it with, right?

[Excessus]

The Ultramarines were the "bad guys" in the confrontation with the XX?

 

We are talking about the same Index Astartes article where Alpharius reacts to criticism that his plans are overly convoluted and take too long by deliberately delaying an attack on a city so he can utilize an insanely complicated plan to capture it with, right?

He spent a lot of bullets, but less lives were lost... ;)

[Wade Garrett]

"Lost soldiers we can replace, lost ground we can retake, but lost time is lost forever."

[Sanct]

The Ultramarines were the "bad guys" in the confrontation with the XX?

We are talking about the same Index Astartes article where Alpharius reacts to criticism that his plans are overly convoluted and take too long by deliberately delaying an attack on a city so he can utilize an insanely complicated plan to capture it with, right?

He spent a lot of bullets, but less lives were lost...

That was when the Alpha Legion deliberately announced the fight to the enemy and waited a week as the enemy mobilized.

I think it was that he deliberately waited so he would have a worthy foe to put on his record like the older legions had.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No actually, he deliberately waited so that he could prove the superiority of his doctrines, and striking before the enemy was ready would have made for a fight that was just too easy to win.

[Emperor's Furor]

I love the Alpha Legion's look, but I've always had a hard time picturing them working on the field of battle in an actual game. I think it's because at the moment there's not enough things that can be used to represent their style of combat, they should be able to easily pin units, break morale, assassinate key figures etc. They should have open access to outflank and ambush style rules, they should have some abilities similar to that of the Callidus who can pop up any where. I hope all these are addressed when their legion rules come a long.

 

Those rules should be at the core of the legion, but that doesn't mean they don't have a legion's arsenal at hand. The way they work is like boxing sparring, they jab, they jab and then they deliver the knock out punch. The jabs should be the smart, psychological, subversive attacks and the knock out punch should be the rest of the legion steamrolling over you. 

[Legatus]

Well, in their earlier description they were not so much about "sneaky tricks" and more about multiple venues of attack. An artillery barrage would hit the enemy center, while simultaneously their supply depots blow up, as Assault units hammer into the enemy flank, while their support units are pinned by heavy Devastor fire and the other flank is harrassed by hit-and-run attacks from bike units, so they cannot simply disengage to support the other flank. Different kinds of attacks going on all at once, with deadly precision. You know, the multi-headed hydra.

[spu00sed]

"Lost soldiers we can replace, lost ground we can retake, but lost time is lost forever."

Will no one think of the lost bullets!

 

They can never be replaced, each is as unique as a snowflake

[Kais Klip]

"Lost soldiers we can replace, lost ground we can retake, but lost time is lost forever."

You sound mad, brother, perhaps we should extend Hydra Operative's #1337 Codenamed 'Erebus' activation time by another 200 years.

 

No but good quote, and to that extent after reading the past history of AL from the vets above I'm more interested in the legion's negative quirk, especially as the OTT meter in my head starts going past 'Grimdark Chainsword Testestorone Rawr' and into 'Jedi' reading the tactical perfection of the legion to rival the IIIrd.

 

To that extent, Arrogance would be a bit of a cop-out in my opinion, and probably more apt for Thousand Sons anyhow. Plus we would need something to be representable on the field, like the EC LD modifier or the Tenth not being able to go to ground.

[Wade Garrett]

Well...as of "The Serpent Beneath" I'd say the XX Legion's flaw is its obsession with secrecy and misdirection.

 

I'm not just talking about how that novella was basically them infiltrating themselves, but also things like a base commander sending falsified plans for his base to his own superior officer.

 

That kind of secret keeping permeating one's ranks seems as least as damaging to proper command and control as the XII's anger issues or the VIII's cowardice tactical pragmatism.

 

I'm not sure how to translate it to the tabletop, though.

[Excessus]

My problem with the BL books about AL is that none of them actually describes how Alpha Legion operates during a battle. Legion is what happens before the battle, and The Serpent Beneath and Deliverance Lost are both Omegon's little wetworks operations, not the main battles. Fear to Tread and Scars are both about space battles and in that other book (I can't remember which one it is in, maybe Fulgrim?) the only thing written is that they have war machines...

[Kol Saresk]

The First Heretic.

[Conn Eremon]

My problem with the BL books about AL is that none of them actually describes how Alpha Legion operates during a battle. Legion is what happens before the battle, and The Serpent Beneath and Deliverance Lost are both Omegon's little wetworks operations, not the main battles. Fear to Tread and Scars are both about space battles and in that other book (I can't remember which one it is in, maybe Fulgrim?) the only thing written is that they have war machines...

You do get to see their preparation, and it was made pretty clear that whatever the subterfuge or misdirection used just before, it would be purely conventional from that point on.

 

Which fit perfectly with their IA description. They would spend an inordinate amount of time setting everything up just right, so that they would look more impressive when they knocked it down. Impressively.

 

Alpha Legion would be that guy who arrives early to sets up a bunch of dominoes into a dot matrix replica of the Mona Lisa, then knocking it over while yelling " :cuss youuuuu!" to everyone else in the World's First, Only, and Probably Last Dominoes Competition.

 

Which is probably why the Dominoes Cures Cancer charity event never really got off the ground.

[TDF]

Well...as of "The Serpent Beneath" I'd say the XX Legion's flaw is its obsession with secrecy and misdirection.

I'm not just talking about how that novella was basically them infiltrating themselves, but also things like a base commander sending falsified plans for his base to his own superior officer.

That kind of secret keeping permeating one's ranks seems as least as damaging to proper command and control as the XII's anger issues or the VIII's cowardice tactical pragmatism.

I'm not sure how to translate it to the tabletop, though.

Half your list is picked by your opponent and controlled by you. The other half is picked by you and controlled by your opponent. And every turn each squad has a one-in-three chance of swapping to the other half.

[Phoros]

Half your list is picked by your opponent and controlled by you. The other half is picked by you and controlled by your opponent. And every turn each squad has a one-in-three chance of swapping to the other half.

But that would leave you with half an army and your opponent with 1.5 armies...

[spu00sed]

Do the same with his army.

 

Who knows how far the infiltration has spread

[Kais Klip]

Screw it, bring in a pet company of World Eaters and kill everyone just to be safe.

[Conn Eremon]

Good god.

 

I would not want to face the guy who keeps World Eaters as pets.

[TDF]

Half your list is picked by your opponent and controlled by you. The other half is picked by you and controlled by your opponent. And every turn each squad has a one-in-three chance of swapping to the other half.

But that would leave you with half an army and your opponent with 1.5 armies...

You're right. Being outnumbered by only three-to-one is too easy for the Alpha Legion. They demand bigger challenges!

[Knight of the Raven]

I can see it now.

"How did you infiltrate my tyranids?"

 

"Reasons."

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I can see it now.

 

"How did you infiltrate my tyranids?"

 

 

They used powerful sedatives to capture a lictor, identified its pheromone production glands, and then synthesized a big batch. They then built a Glade plugin for power armor that emitted said pheromone allowing them to pass amongst Tyranids without danger.

 

 

...no, that probably wouldn't work.

[BassWave]

They infiltrate the gene stealers by raising alpharius cults?

[Dragonlover]

One of the things I miss from 2nd Ed is the thing about the Alpha Legion deliberately going after Marine forces post Heresy, just to prove they were better. I really like the idea of the whole Legion having a massive superiority complex that leads to stuff like the aforementioned 'Nah, let them fortify for a few more weeks, its too easy otherwise'.

 

Also, I tend to visualise a game with the Alpha legion as being the culmination of all the plotting and sneaking and prep, and likely just a small part of that culmination. It's one of the reasons I'm trying to take the cultists out of my 40K list: by the time the Legion has that many boots on the ground, the Cultists should be irrelevant.

 

Dragonlover