Oh the treachery [old fluff question & old ground].

[Brother Amarel]

I'm aware that this is old ground, but...

 

I recall being, fairly recently, told that they the idea that El'Jonson was teetering on the verge of joining Horus / had actually quietly declared for him and that those DA that attacked him and his ships on his return to Caliban were Loyalists, had been ret-conned out (Angels of Darkness / Boreas accepted). And that the reason for the treason (heh, rhyming) was entirely down to Luther's own personality issues and his rhetoric in swaying others to his cause.

 

However, surely with so much treachery running through the DA and their successors, this must come from a flaw in the Geneseed, which means that the Lion has a pre-disposition for it ('it' being 'treachery'), making Luther a far more reliable source. I've not read anything, yet, that dissuades me from the idea that Luther was well aware of the Lion's penchant for treachery and was as loyal (if not more so) to the Emperor than El'Jonson (explaining many of his actions).

 

So, is anyone able to point me to a thread on here or a background article somewhere that shows the Lion not to be treacherous at heart. 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

So, is anyone able to point me to a thread on here or a background

article somewhere that shows the Lion not to be treacherous at heart.

If you search around here, specially in HH related matters you will find that the Lion is quite the opposite from treacherous. I think the Onus of the evidence is on you to prove that the rumors you heard from someone are true. Ball is in your court.

 

El'Jonson was teetering on the verge of joining Horus / had actually

quietly declared for him and that those DA that attacked him and his

ships on his return to Caliban were Loyalists, had been ret-conned out

(Angels of Darkness / Boreas accepted). And that the reason for the

treason (heh, rhyming) was entirely down to Luther's own personality

issues and his rhetoric in swaying others to his cause.

That was never published so there was no need for a retcon. It's probably on the realm of someone's wild imagination. Again HH novels disprove any kind of notion that the Lion was even teetering.

[Brother Tyler]

Actually, I think the opposite position has to be proven. The only real "evidence" we have for the alleged treachery is the testimony under interrogation of the Fallen Dark Angels Chapter Master. Everything else points to loyalty on the part of the 1st Legion, with their imminent appearance at Terra being one of the spurs to Horus dropping the shields on his battle barge (he decided to act and invite the Emperor's direct action before the loyalists received reinforcements in the shape of the Dark Angels and Space Wolves Legions).

 

As for the so-called "treachery" of the Unforgiven, that isn't really treachery. It's the ruthless pursuit of their hidden agenda, prioritizing that mission (and the perceived restoration of their collective safety and reputation) over short-term tactical considerations. Even when they might turn on otherwise allied forces (e.g., the possibility that they've destroyed a small Black Templars crusade and other similar incidents), such acts are performed under the perception that they are for self-preservation and not because they are changing their loyalties. In their minds, their acts are performed because they are proving their loyalty to the Emperor.

[Grand Master Belial]

Actually the Lion teetering is a relatively new idea that really came about in the Horus Heresy novels. Sure Angels of Darkness was the first, but it didn't grab traction until the Horus Heresy books started rolling out. This opened the door for the thought of the Lion being on the brink.

 

Being a gene seed flaw would be perhaps a bit much. I think it is psychological rather than physical/genetic. The Lion was in isolation for so long that social interaction is still his biggest flaw. This set up him being the Tactical genius rather than the Stategic genius that went to Gulliman. The Lion can win anything he faces but lacked the ability to see the bigger picture and how they interact. This led to his massive victory count but his conquests and even his home world were vulnerable to the forces that crept in behind him. Whereas Gulliman took the time to shore up his conquests and reinforce them physically and emotionally so that their loyalty was assured and they would be inspired to follow him, giving him the largest legion.

 

This general line of thinking has been modified with the HH books so that it is hard to separate the abilities of each primarch save what happened in their past to distinguish them. Robute, Sanguinius, Horus, Dorn, Vulkan and the Lion could almost be interchanged in several of the books with very little modification. Perhaps it is why there have been fewer books about the other primarchs, our own included, because the differences have been blurred. That is just my two coppers.

[Tanhausen]

As you say, the official story has been nudged around quite a bit and I don't think you'll find a document neither disputing neither confirming 100% either of the options.

 

Of course, if you find such material, please bring along any copies you might find and contact our Chaplains at SalvationofYourSoul@ChaplainsForSalvation.da

[Brother Amarel]

Right, sorry, I've taken some things as 'known' when it's clear that they're possibly not.

 

The Lion teetering on the edge of siding with Horus was first mooted during Angels of Darkness (as noted above), which was a while back. But on to general treachery...

 

It's reasonable to assume that he was treacherous towards Luther, in Luther's opinion at least. The validity of this claim is then based upon Luther's personality, however he has never been stated to have psychological 'victim' issues and was always (until 'that day') seen as loyal to the Emperor. So I don't think it's a stretch to  accept that there is some traction in what he says. That alone means little, of course.

 

Next we have the forces on Caliban firing on their Primarch. Which side was actually loyal that day, doesn't matter too much at this point, just that there was mass treachery.

 

Now, however, we move onto Successors. Most Successors (in fact all 'stated' Successors) are under the microscope and, one suspects, rigorously watched by both the Dark Angels themselves and a large number of the inquisition (who know 'something' is up with the super secret stuff going on) so they must be constantly vigilant (and probably know enough about their history for any slight deviance to be dealt with very quickly and surely). However, we learn more from Successors that aren't labelled so clearly as Dark Angels and are able to forge their own path. Successors such as the Astral Claws, who, when given the freedom to find their own identity, develop a "canker of treachery". 

 

So, we have a seemingly-loyal-to-the-emperor second in command with statements of treachery against his Primarch and we have a Chapter where significant proportion of the Marines turned to Chaos. By itself you tilt this either way, depending on who you want to believe, but then when an unwatched Successor goes rogue, and we recall that Luther was genetically modified, rather than being given a Geneseed, so did not bear the traits of his Primarch, I think, you have to wonder if the Lion was actually duped by Perturabo or was simply handing things over as previously agreed. And the die is rolled.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Astral Claws are not a Sucessor, unless there's some new piece of fluff I am not aware of.

 

I think, you have to wonder if the Lion was actually duped by Perturabo
or was simply handing things over as previously agreed. And the die is
rolled.

As said previously, read HH novels and you see it's a gross mistake on the Lion's part, not an agreement

 

 

 

It's reasonable to assume that he was treacherous towards Luther, in
Luther's opinion at least. The validity of this claim is then based upon
Luther's personality, however he has never been stated to have
psychological 'victim' issues and was always (until 'that day') seen as
loyal to the Emperor. So I don't think it's a stretch to  accept that
there is some traction in what he says. That alone means little, of
course.

Yes very little, since it was Luther the one augmented enough by the powers of Chaos to fight a primarch, so any accusations of treachery from someone that wields the power of Chaos should be highly doubted if not disregarded. Also luther's personality for many accounts is that he was Jealous of the Lion, which not only did what Luther couldn't and became his Senior. If  a Lieutenant and saw one his grunts that he mentored become his superior would he not harbour jealousy nd resentment? Only human after all...

 

The Lion teetering on the edge of siding with Horus was first mooted
during Angels of Darkness (as noted above), which was a while back.

And that was demystified by the Author itself, wanting to build suspense and a hook on his novel, but admiting that many interpreted his story too literally.

[Brother Amarel]

 

Astral Claws are not a Sucessor, unless there's some new piece of fluff I am not aware of.

 

I think, you have to wonder if the Lion was actually duped by Perturabo

or was simply handing things over as previously agreed. And the die is

rolled.

As said previously, read HH novels and you see it's a gross mistake on the Lion's part, not an agreement

 

 

 

>> 

It's reasonable to assume that he was treacherous towards Luther, in

Luther's opinion at least. The validity of this claim is then based upon

Luther's personality, however he has never been stated to have

psychological 'victim' issues and was always (until 'that day') seen as

loyal to the Emperor. So I don't think it's a stretch to  accept that

there is some traction in what he says. That alone means little, of

course.

Yes very little, since it was Luther the one augmented enough by the powers of Chaos to fight a primarch, so any accusations of treachery from someone that wields the power of Chaos should be highly doubted if not disregarded. Also luther's personality for many accounts is that he was Jealous of the Lion, which not only did what Luther couldn't and became his Senior. If  a Lieutenant and saw one his grunts that he mentored become his superior would he not harbour jealousy nd resentment? Only human after all...

 

The Lion teetering on the edge of siding with Horus was first mooted

during Angels of Darkness (as noted above), which was a while back.

And that was demystified by the Author itself, wanting to build suspense and a hook on his novel, but admiting that many interpreted his story too literally.

 

Astral Claws (Progenitors Unknown). Space Marine Traits: Stubborn, Skilled Rider on Bikes, Scout on Fast Skmmers. Non-Standard Hardware/ Equipment: Mortis Dreadnoughts.

 

They're most definitely Dark Angel Successors. 

 

With regards Perturabo, the Lion declared that it was a gross mistake on his part and history is written by the victors. Quite the accidental mistake to make, considering that Perturabo was known to have complained about the Emperor and Dorn and was always acting under orders from Horus. 

 

You also very quickly sleight Luther without considering all facets. Could he have been jealous? Yes. Could he also have known the Lion and his character flaws better than any other? Yes. 

 

While the Lion teetering is not a fact (and never was), the whole point is that it was / is a possibility. That's what we're exploring - the possibility of it being true. 

[Gillyfish]

Hmm, I've read the FW books on the Astral Claws and really hadn't picked up any similarities. I'll have to have a look.

 

I wouldn't say treachery is necessarily a DA trait. The way Jonson is portrayed in many of the HH books clearly establishes the fact that he is loyal. He may be jealous of his brothers and he is certainly not a 'people person', but he doesn't seem predisposed to treachery. However, he does plot and scheme and he i snot the most able communicator (Unremembered Empire demonstrates that nicely).

 

I would say that the Lion and the Dark Angels chapter have a strong tendency towards 'the Ends Justifies the Means'. Since the Fall, I would also argue that they have a tendency towards checking and watching to ensure that it can never be repeated, but I don't think it's a geneseed flaw. After all, their geneseed is said to be one of the purest (if not the most).

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Astral Claws (Progenitors Unknown). Space Marine Traits: Stubborn,

Skilled Rider on Bikes, Scout on Fast Skmmers. Non-Standard

Hardware/ Equipment: Mortis Dreadnoughts.

Well DA don't have Skilled riders on bikes, and everybody and his uncle has Mortis except by name. Half of those also are also White Scars traits.  But are these taken from an Imperial armour Issue?  If you tell me that based on that they have mixed gene-seed I could go for that... but downright DA sucessor is not conclusive enough.

 

You can't explore the possibility of something being true because it was debunked already. And what does it matter? Jagathai Khan teetered way worse than the Lion and no one hints at WS being traitors...

[Brother dean]

 

 

Astral Claws (Progenitors Unknown). Space Marine Traits: Stubborn, Skilled Rider on Bikes, Scout on Fast Skmmers. Non-Standard Hardware/ Equipment: Mortis Dreadnoughts.

Your "evidence" contradicts itself.  It specifically states that the Primogenitors are Unknown.  There is more non standard equipment in the blue dex than there is in our dex.  White Scars are just as bike heavy as we are, Imperial Fists are more Stubborn as well.  Especially since the Dark Angels do not have the Stubborn rule anymore...  

Your statement proves nothing.  It infers quite a bit but proof is very slim.

 

---

Edit:

I would second what Gillyfish stated that any insular or paranoid tendancies toward secrets is a learned response from the Lions environment on Calaban.  The Legion's Geneseed was taken from material left on Terra after the "Scattering" of the Primarchs and wouldnt show any tendancies toward isolation because that was a learned response.  Likewise if the Astral Claws were actually successors they wouldnt show that learned behavior because they had no contact with the parent Legion and couldnt have learned.

 

Also remember that the Astral Claws fell because of one marine...    The Tyrant made his choice and the chapter followed.

[SvenONE]

I love these discussions, I think we're the only chapter in which our tendencies break the fourth wall and spill out into our own narrations among our fellow gamers on the tables.  So many of these questions arise out of situations exactly like yours Brother Amarel:  "Someone told me that..."  There's so much Myth out there about the DA chapter it's rather fun to be a Dark Angel player because people on the outs just don't quite know the truth!  Not only that but I've met a lot of dumb wargamers who simply skim details or selectively forget, or lack comprehension skills.  Not saying that is you or your friends, but it does add the the amount of rumor that flies around.

 

 

The biggest thing about the Dark Angel canon with regards to everyone elses is the use of Unreliable Narrators.  Astelan we know is a fallen, and his point of view is obviously different to that of the rest of the legion.

 

It's also really important to note the difference in treachery.  Most of the "Oh Dark Angels are traitors" comments seem to come specifically from Angels of Darkness, it's really the only book that seems to portray DA in a treacherous light, again on the account of a Fallen.  I've always asserted Gav Thorpe is a glorified fan fiction writer, I never found any of his books in anyway compelling, especially when you look at the quality of HH books.  The thing is that Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels and to some degree, Unremembered Empire are far more concrete in their point of views on the events of the chapter.

 

But when we think Treachery in 40k, we think a turn to chaos.  We've all been there, playing in the shop when some beardy loudmouth mindlessly yells something about Dark Angels being Chaos.  But the reality is that the Fallen aren't so much chaos space marines as they are simple rebels.

 

 

Fallen Angels Spoilers:

 

 

Fallen Angels sees a rebellion on Caliban after Luther and his half of the chapter has been sent back.  A group of Terran sorcerers are basically exploiting the fact that the planet itself is tainted, it's assumed that it's tainted by the warp.  Luther, who most likely out of jealousy, retreats to the library that contains all the texts that were confiscated from the Knights of Lupus, a group of Knights who in the Knightly Order days of Caliban refused to be a part of the Lion's unity.  They also dabbled with the taint and the beasts (who were borne out of the taint/warp).  He essentially pored over these texts and eventually concoted the idea that the Lion sent all of these remaining Dark Angels back to Caliban, because he knew that the Imperium would one day find out that Caliban it was a death world and go Exterminatus on it.  That's basically the reason he rebels, he's a native Calibanite and wants to see the planet free from Imperial rule.  Somewhere in the midst he does get a bit of a hand from Chaos, or at least taps the warp himself.  There's a scene in which a DA Librarian (loyal to the Lion) attempts to basically smite Luther, who is protected by powers well beyond his own doing.  So it's sort of a cross between being tainted, and just downright being flawed that Luther turns against the Lion.  Also, it's noted that the current Lord Cypher (at the time that is) is the last remaining Knight from House Lupus, the wording is a little confusing as to why, but it was to protect the secrets of those confiscated texts.

 

Luther's turn is first hand, we see that because we're there as an audience, watching it unfold.  Not a story we've been told through an interrogation.  Luther's turn against the Lion isn't analogous to the way Horus turns against the Emperor.  While both might be influenced by Chaos, and their decisions made as free thinking men, Horus wishes to overthrow the Emperor and take the Imperium as his own, where as Luther is acting out of his need to protect the people of Caliban.  It's really important to note that Astelan is IN THE ROOM WHEN LUTHER DECIDES TO TURN AGAINST THE LION, and doesn't say anything.

 

The one thing that's never really told to us, is why exactly the Lion sends everyone back to Caliban, we've never quite heard it from El'jonson's mouth.  We only have Luther's speculation as to why.

 

Another thing people suggest is the Lion being in league with Perturabo when he gives him the seige engines on Diamat.  Eveyrone's being deceived at the time, and El'jonson at least at this point believe that the Iron Warriors are friendlies (as did everyone else who flees towards them at the Drop Site Massacre).  So where people fully believe that he gave the stuff to Horus on purpose I don't know, considering that the entire Fallen Angels book, he's specifically saying he's got to stop Horus from getting them.

 

 

 

Unremembered Empire Spoilers (subtle but important):

 

This pretty much sealed the deal for me as far as whether or not the Lion was actual a traitor.  Basically when Guilliman suggests a second imperium, El'jonson is beside himself that he would do something so egregious.  For a moment, El'jonson believes this is as treacherous as Horus' turning.  Not to mention that a titanic fight ensues involving Guilliman and the Lion against Curze (with a little Vulkan mixed in).  The Heresy is fully fledged at this point and after a bit of a diplomatic nightmare (I won't spoil the whole book for you).

 

 

 

So in short, Angels of Darkness is a 10+ year old book, from the point of view of a Fallen Chapter Master.  The Horus Heresy books, while newer and could be considered "retconned" actually take place well before that.  So as far as I'm concerned they are a better set of facts to go by.  Unfortunately we've seen very little of the Lion and this thinking, we've seen him doing plenty of things, but we've never really gotten in his mind like we did in other Primarchs like in Fulgrim, First Heretic, and the first trio of HH books.

 

What's really enjoyable about our fluff is that we can enjoy these theories since it isn't clear cut...

 

...to those not in the Inner Circle...

[Cactus]

Especially since the Dark Angels do not have the Stubborn rule anymore...

Brother dean, check the Grim Resolve rule on page 28 of your codex.

[Brother dean]

Ah!  But technically, no unit has the Stubborn rule.  They have Grim Resolve which is stubborn, plus bits....  And instead of it being the entire army able to buy it, only a select few have access to Grim Resolve...  (Right, Vet sarges get it, I was wrong but then I havent played green this edition)   Our Stubborn has been greatly reduced for two editions now...

 

 

Yup...  Chamber 42...  I know...

[Isiah]

So in short, Angels of Darkness is a 10+ year old book, from the point of view of a Fallen Chapter Master.

This.

 

Even Gavin Thorpe admitted that the word of Astelan is his (Astelan's) own – not necessarily a truthful view of events and should not be taken as canon. So why do people insist on taking the word of a 'Fallen' when trying to work out loyalties of the DA?

 

Cheers

A

[Cactus]

Ah! But technically, no unit has the Stubborn rule. They have Grim Resolve which is stubborn, plus bits.... And instead of it being the entire army able to buy it, only a select few have access to Grim Resolve... Our Stubborn has been greatly reduced for two editions now...

I'll have to double-check when I can get at my book later but I'm sure that there is no option to buy it because all non-vehicle non-inner circle units have Grim Resolve as standard. It's our chapter trait. The drawback is annoying on paper, but in practice I've never had my marines stuck in an 'our weapons are useless' situation so I've never been in a position where I'm forbidden from voluntarily failing a morale check. As drawbacks go it's pretty tame.

So why do people insist on taking the word of a 'Fallen' when trying to work out loyalties of the DA?

It's probably because we've done such a good job of covering up the whole situation that they don't know the difference between Fallen and loyalist. Can we really blame outsiders for trusting the word of a Dark Angel? It's what we want them to do.

[Isiah]

Hmmm... up to a point I agree - as long as we know which way is up I guess all is fine ...

 

... we do don't we :huh:

 

Cheers

I

[Cactus]

I can answer that question with an old show tune:

The Rock, the Rock, a helluva town,
The tower is up, but the dungeons are down,
The watchers hide in a hole in the ground,
The Rock, the Rock, it's a helluva town!

But I fear we're straying further off-topic...

To answer the original question, the Lion was loyal to the Emperor and to the Imperium. Statements to the contrary are merely the falsehoods of traitors, oath-breakers and the uninformed.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

I think this was pretty much answered in Unremembered Empire. The Lion practically calling Robute a Traitor for coming up with a Second Empire (pretty good back up plan in my opinion) and then telling him there was no way that he, the Lion, was going to take charge is pretty clear. I mean it sounded like Guilliman practically was in awe of the Lion and our Whole Legion. I think this is a very cool revelation as to what many of the Legions thought of us, except the ones that hated us of course, and gives a very clear example of how the DA were.

 

Get it done at all costs. That doesn't mean don't think and plan but when it comes down to biting the bullet we get it done. Added to all of this a bit of envy from other Legions and you can see what happened I think.

 

Luther gets angry, jealous and his figgy hurt because he's asked to stay behind and get the new guys ready.

 

The Lion is out busting a hump trying to "keep the Empire together since we can't reach Terra."

 

Lion's mentality is : There is only one Emperor and no Primarch is worthy of replacing him so there will be the Emperor or no one at its head (one of the short stories can't remember which)

 

Watcher in the Dark gives him the cryptic "if you go this plan and route your Legion will fall apart."

 

Lion moody and 'get it done' attitude says "so be it."

 

Lion gets betrayed by brother Primarch's, Siege Engines, Horus as a whole etc. added to the fact he's not the most open and trusting individual being from Caliban to begin with so paranoia abounds.

 

Lion probably has a kinship with Luther more than perhaps even his Primarch brothers since they both conquered a Deathworld together etc. so when he finally gets back to "home"  and gets a chance to visit he's been on edge feeling betrayed blah blah blah comes home to his doorstep and gets the frying pan to the face (aka Luther's troops shoot at him) he's more than a little pissed.

 

His brother beyond brothers betrayed him because of chaos and all that but still time to burn down the house so your brother doesn't get it in the Lawsuit sort of mentality.

 

Long rant condensed. I don't think we have geneseed defects to make us traitor. I think we had brothers who were more "human" than many Legions and he had the Sin's of pride and jealousy etc. Chaos latched on and just helped to get this to fester and make him turn. Covet not thy brothers space marines and all that.

 

My five bucks worth since that was way more than 2 cents.

 

DoC

[[TA]Typher]

Fallen angels gives a good account for why luther did what he did. The book has been out for several years.. Hopefully i don't need spoiler tags..

 

 

Basically the lion sent luther back to caliban to train more troops. This occurred after a plot by to assassinate the lion was foiled. Luther knew about the plot and almost let it happen, but at the last minute changed his mind. The book doesn't state that the lion knew about luthers actions, but i don't see why he would exile his best friend if he didn't

 

On caliban luther basically gets wrapped up with the remaining knightly orders that view calibans industrialization as a bad thing since they aren't needed anymore. They rebel against the imperium abd the lion as they view him intractable within it.

 

So in short.. The fallen are far from loyal to the imperium. The old fluff had the lion loyaly battling his way to terra along side the Wolf during the heresy. And, according to the current HH books the Lion is clearly on the loyalist side.

 

Astelan, the fallen in AOD is Luthers right hand man. He's there when luther declares independance from the imperium. So... It's he's proven to be a liar in AOD.

[Raztalin]

Don't worry I'm already en route to cell 42 ...

 

Due to the passionate nature of this subject to us DA fans / players, and the suspicions / jealous nature of all others who look at our beloved 1st Legion, I have a sneaking suspicion that we could see FW / BL deciding to throw this all out of kilter in the future ...

 

What sells better than controversy and the dissolution of everything you thought to be true!? 

 

I truly hope this train of thought of mine doesn't become a reality; but imagine if Luther was the Loyal one (i never thought I'd utter let alone write those words!! ;-)  ), and it was the Lion that turned ... ?  Is it Luther's body that's been healing deep within the Rock and its the Lions ranting the watchers listen too ... ? 

 

Personally I don't believe it a possibility; I'm fully behind our current fluff; in my eyes the Lion could / can do no wrong!!

 

If it wasn't for threads like this I don't think my mind would wander to these "alternatives"...

 

Food for thought! ;-)

[[TA]Typher]

Luther directly opposes the emperor in the book fallen angels. He announces that caliban is a free world and that they are throwing the yoke of the imperium off.

 

Hard to beleive he's the loyal one after that.

[Brother Amarel]

Sorry, was busy for a couple of days. 

 

 

 

Astral Claws (Progenitors Unknown). Space Marine Traits: Stubborn, Skilled Rider on Bikes, Scout on Fast Skmmers. Non-Standard Hardware/ Equipment: Mortis Dreadnoughts.

Your "evidence" contradicts itself.  It specifically states that the Primogenitors are Unknown.  There is more non standard equipment in the blue dex than there is in our dex.  White Scars are just as bike heavy as we are, Imperial Fists are more Stubborn as well.  Especially since the Dark Angels do not have the Stubborn rule anymore...  

Your statement proves nothing.  It infers quite a bit but proof is very slim.

 

 

Er... The whole point is that they're listed as unknown, that *is* the argument - are DA successors who do not know where their Geneseed comes from, and thus are not obsessively vigilant, more likely to be traitorous than those with a different Geneseed? I say yes.

 

Let's ignore what previous DA have said for a while and look at 'just the facts':

 

Chapter A has a large amount of its Marines turn Traitor. Primarch A blames it on his second-in-command who does not have his Geneseed. All is fine and future Chapters that use Primarch A's Geneseed, and know about where the come from are extra vigilant, are not known to turn. Chapter B from Primarch A's Geneseed, who don't know who their primogenitor is and thus aren't more vigilant than a standard Chapter, turn rogue. That's two for two if you're not demanding extra vigilance. And the fact that extra vigilance is demanded if you know you have that Primach's Geneseed is then looking like a bit of a concern, right? 

 

"This treachery thing, El'Jonson, did you totally stitch up Luther?"

"Absolutely, it's in my nature."

 

The Astral Claws Traits I listed are from the latest Forgeworld Chapter Tactics download. If you read the preamble they drop hints about White Scars ("rapid assault and encirclement"), Dark Angels ("unyielding courage") and Emperors Children ("pride was to be their undoing"). However, with DA yet to make their appearance in the HH series, I wouldn't be surprised to find a few more hints that things aren't exactly all sunshine and roses in the Lion's garden.

 

Personally, I find the whole thing fascinating and like the idea that nothing is quite so binary as some would have you believe (which is the whole bigger picture of the 40k setting). But then bear in mind, I got into the Dark Angels for their black and red colour scheme when RT came out, so I don't have the same attachment to their story and history that dragged some of you in, which I accept.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

What you say doesn't make sense because it's not gene-seed that defines ability to become traitor, and if it was it was not DA's case. Treason happens when someone's ego is not happy with what he gets. In several Primarch cases it was that the case... Fulgrim had grandiose visions, Lorgar had the obsession with divinity, Horus had to prove himself the best, Magnus had thirst for knowledge, etc. But the Lion was loyal throughout the whole history and had the bad luck of having a too-human lieutenant that succumbed to jealousy. So You can't pin treachery on gene-seed especially because DA's gee-seed purity is second only to UM. 

[Azoriel]

Going back to the first idea floated by the OP...
 

 

The Lion teetering on the edge of siding with Horus was first mooted during Angels of Darkness (as noted above), which was a while back. But on to general treachery...

The idea that the Lion was an opportunist and almost traitor was indeed first suggested in Angels of Darkness.  As pointed out by so many others, this information came from a source confirmed to be both unreliable and a liar by the author himself.

It should also be pointed out this novel wasn't published until 2003.  Before then, Codex: Angels of Death (1996) clearly established the Lion as being loyal (implicitly moreso than even Leman Russ) and Luther as the traitor.  This is further cemented in the novel Eye of Terror (1999), during which
 

 

a Great Crusade era loyalist is tricked into following one of the Fallen.  Later, he doubts the man's narrative and eats his brain to determine the truth of what went on during the Heresy.  The resulting shame from having associated with such a traitor, one complicit with and having full knowledge of the treachery on Caliban, is so severe that he surrenders himself over to the Dark Angels chapter and accepts any and all forms of torture administered without complaint, to include execution at the very end.

 

Thus, if there was any "retcon" in this matter, it would be that the loyalty of the Lion was at all questionable to begin with.

As for the idea that DA gene seed is inheritly traitorous, note that the archheretic Luther (being confirmed to be the true traitor in fluff both new and old) is merely a heavily modified human, having experienced little influence from the Lion's gene seed (assuming he recieved any of it at all).  Ergo, Caliban going traitor can't even be pinned on the Lion's genetics.