If Abbaddon Succeeds

[Clone]

So let's assume the thirteenth black crusade breaks through the cadian gate, ploughs into terra and Abbaddon casts the Emperor from his throne. The Imperium as we know it is ruins and Abbaddon becomes a new Emperor of a darker Imperium. What next? Is this the end of humanity with daemons running amock or does Abbaddon rule and turns his back against the Gods now he has achieved his goal? Also the tyranids are still coming and necrons are waking up. Would the loyalists and Chaos be stuck in a revolving cycle of civil war or would many chapters fall to chaos with the increased warp influence throughout the galaxy? What would all of this mean to the average Joe of the Imperium?

 

I realise this is a pretty open ended thing to ask and we'll never know the answer but its just for fun.

[Wayniac]

It's implied that if Abaddon succeeds, then he rules the galaxy with an iron fist until the Tyranids/Necrons show up and wipe them out, because Chaos is by its nature chaotic and disorganized, so there wouldn't be a way to organize a full defense.  Of course most things are Imperium-centric so that might just be bias.

 

Honestly though, I don't think that Chaos would have the same kind of mutual aid like the current Imperium; since they basically have no loyalty to anyone outside of "Hmm this guy could kill me, better do what he says... for now...", I think that there would either be infighting the minute the Imperium is out of the picture, or if not immediately then certainly when the Tyranids or whoever come calling.  I think the increased warp would have more chapters turning renegade, but I also think a lot would just go independent (Ultramarines for example) and hold onto their own worlds in sort of a stalemate.  Abaddon wouldn't have the resources to totally wipe out the Imperium so you'd likely have:

 

* Worlds that swear fealty to Abaddon

* Worlds that are engaged in border wars

* Worlds that declare independence from both

 

You'd basically have a situation like the old Battletech universe - city-states fighting each other, until the enemy from beyond the stars shows up and beats everyone else up because they're too busy fighting each other.

[minigun762]

I would assume that the EoT would grow in size, creating new daemon worlds.

 

Those worlds outside the Eye would be prime targets for Xenos though.

[arkagl]

yea like minigun said the EoT would grow prob double or triple and new warp space areas would open up. The emperor's psychic will actually is strong enough to keep them in check for now so without him the warp would be uncontrollable.

 

Also without him no one of the Imperium could fly around he is the beacon and the Astropaths use him to GPS themselves within the Galaxy.

 

The machine god would awaken on mars bc he got his but kicked by the emperor way back when so no emperor he will feel free to do whatever he wants.

 

Pyschers would be exposed to the full force of the warp including Grey Knights another thing the Emperor protects. And I don't care who the Grey Knights are without his protection they will be bombarded by the taint or a warp storm would incloud Titan.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

In which case, I sear my allegiance to the Red Planet.  In nomine Omissiah.

[Wade Garrett]

Isn't there something in the 6th Ed rulebook that says when the Emperor goes the Warp will swallow everything, GG everyone except the Daemons?

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

I actually don't think Abaddon will kill the Emperor, it would be counter-productive to his goals. If anything, he will use <insert random Old Ones/C'tan/ Necron device> to calm the warp and then start wiping out any rebels/Xenos/Chaos Marines still around.

[Kol Saresk]

Well at the moment, something that hit me is this:

Kol_Saresk, on 06 Mar 2014 - 07:39, said:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-faRL2iAwC6A/UlnYcc-GATI/AAAAAAAAEJ8/vsODLsVuZDQ/s1600/Warhammer_Black_Crusades.jpg

We know the goal of the First Black Crusade was to claim Drach'nyen.

 

Index Chaotica: Possessed shows the goal of the Fifth Black Crusade was to claim possession of certain relics.

 

The Twelfth Black Crusade was to claim the Blackstone Fortresses.

 

Now, this picture shows something funny. It shows the 13th reaching Cadia. And then it shows a projected course.

 

Now see, something had been striking me funny for a while.

 

When the Eye of Terror campaign was finished, there was no mention of the Thirteenth Black Crusade being finished. In fact, it said the Crusade was ongoing as it headed to Terra.

 

And then we get to know. Many of us assumed that because there was no more mention of breaking out of Terra, that we had been retconned to a time point before the Crusade even happened.

 

I think we(myself included) were wrong. The Eye of Terror campaign wasn't the 13th Black Crusade. It was the Blitzkrieg. The first strike. The Crusade comes after Cadia.

 

What helped me come to this conclusion was a little tidbit from Void Stalker. About how the first twelve crusades were merely crusades. But that the Thirteenth, it was going to be the war. The war that would burn Terra to the ground.

 

The fluff hasn't been retconned. It has been merely focussing on the steps taken to ensure the Thirteenth Black Crusade's existence. Such as building and testing the first Planetkiller. Capturing the Blackstone Fortresses. Claiming Drach'nyen. Destroying the shipyards and Forgeworld at Crythe.

 

The Imperium is beyond dented. It's been ventilated.

Granted, you(general) reserve the right to just call this a theory, but at the moment, it strikes me as sound. Personal bias included of course. So in reality, Cadia has been breached, but Terra hasn't been conquered yet. So the current state of the Imperium would be that Chaos warbands can leave and enter the Eye of their own accord. So literally the current event is Abaddon is stuck on his Planetkiller with its blown engines, IIRC.

 

But as he draws closer to Terra, I believe the current Codex says that he plans to draw the warp behind him, So what we would see as time went on and he succeeded in his plan is either the Eye of Terror being drawn towards Terra or it is actually stretched towards Terra, which would have the devastating result of most of the Galactic North being exposed to the largest warp storm, ever. So after Terra, Lorgar's dream of the warp and reality becoming fused to the core would most likely become a reality because from there, all that has to be done is draw the Crimson path to the Maelstrom, or vice versa, and well, I assume everyone remembers the idea of "super-hurricanes" from that 2012 movie where hurricane after hurricane were supposed to combine? I think the term "super-warpstorm" would become applicable.

 

Prodigal Son of Magnus, on 11 Mar 2014 - 12:54, said:

I actually don't think Abaddon will kill the Emperor, it would be counter-productive to his goals. If anything, he will use <insert random Old Ones/C'tan/ Necron device> to calm the warp and then start wiping out any rebels/Xenos/Chaos Marines still around.

His goals are for him to become the ruler of a new Imperium. How would Chaos Marines run counter to that?

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

Well at the moment, something that hit me is this:

Kol_Saresk, on 06 Mar 2014 - 07:39, said:http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-faRL2iAwC6A/UlnYcc-GATI/AAAAAAAAEJ8/vsODLsVuZDQ/s1600/Warhammer_Black_Crusades.jpg

We know the goal of the First Black Crusade was to claim Drach'nyen.

Index Chaotica: Possessed shows the goal of the Fifth Black Crusade was to claim possession of certain relics.

The Twelfth Black Crusade was to claim the Blackstone Fortresses.

Now, this picture shows something funny. It shows the 13th reaching Cadia. And then it shows a projected course.

Now see, something had been striking me funny for a while.

When the Eye of Terror campaign was finished, there was no mention of the Thirteenth Black Crusade being finished. In fact, it said the Crusade was ongoing as it headed to Terra.

And then we get to know. Many of us assumed that because there was no more mention of breaking out of Terra, that we had been retconned to a time point before the Crusade even happened.

I think we(myself included) were wrong. The Eye of Terror campaign wasn't the 13th Black Crusade. It was the Blitzkrieg. The first strike. The Crusade comes after Cadia.

What helped me come to this conclusion was a little tidbit from Void Stalker. About how the first twelve crusades were merely crusades. But that the Thirteenth, it was going to be the war. The war that would burn Terra to the ground.

The fluff hasn't been retconned. It has been merely focussing on the steps taken to ensure the Thirteenth Black Crusade's existence. Such as building and testing the first Planetkiller. Capturing the Blackstone Fortresses. Claiming Drach'nyen. Destroying the shipyards and Forgeworld at Crythe.

The Imperium is beyond dented. It's been ventilated.

Granted, you(general) reserve the right to just call this a theory, but at the moment, it strikes me as sound. Personal bias included of course. So in reality, Cadia has been breached, but Terra hasn't been conquered yet. So the current state of the Imperium would be that Chaos warbands can leave and enter the Eye of their own accord. So literally the current event is Abaddon is stuck on his Planetkiller with its blown engines, IIRC.

But as he draws closer to Terra, I believe the current Codex says that he plans to draw the warp behind him, So what we would see as time went on and he succeeded in his plan is either the Eye of Terror being drawn towards Terra or it is actually stretched towards Terra, which would have the devastating result of most of the Galactic North being exposed to the largest warp storm, ever. So after Terra, Lorgar's dream of the warp and reality becoming fused to the core would most likely become a reality because from there, all that has to be done is draw the Crimson path to the Maelstrom, or vice versa, and well, I assume everyone remembers the idea of "super-hurricanes" from that 2012 movie where hurricane after hurricane were supposed to combine? I think the term "super-warpstorm" would become applicable.

Prodigal Son of Magnus, on 11 Mar 2014 - 12:54, said:

I actually don't think Abaddon will kill the Emperor, it would be counter-productive to his goals. If anything, he will use <insert random Old Ones/C'tan/ Necron device> to calm the warp and then start wiping out any rebels/Xenos/Chaos Marines still around.

His goals are for him to become the ruler of a new Imperium. How would Chaos Marines run counter to that?

Because if Abaddon wants to run an Imperium after double-crossing the Gods he would have to get rid of all the Chaos worshipping marines who would most likely attack him.

[Kol Saresk]

And where exactly is he planning on double crossing the Gods? Is this in the Supplement? I ask because it would seem......... stupid to plan on double crossing the literally four most powerful beings in existence right after letting them into your house. Which has just had the walls torn down, roof blown off, front door ventilated as is currently in the Eye of the storm, which is coincidentally known as the Eye of Terror.

[d@n]

I don't think abbadon has given much thought to what happens after he takes terra. Just obsessed with doing do.

[daveNYC]

 

Prodigal Son of Magnus, on 11 Mar 2014 - 12:54, said:

I actually don't think Abaddon will kill the Emperor, it would be counter-productive to his goals. If anything, he will use <insert random Old Ones/C'tan/ Necron device> to calm the warp and then start wiping out any rebels/Xenos/Chaos Marines still around.

His goals are for him to become the ruler of a new Imperium. How would Chaos Marines run counter to that?

 

CSM are integral to his plan to become ruler of the galaxy.  Once he pulls it off though, they just become rivals for the throne.

 

The current 'dex talks about the 'red (or is it crimson) path'.  The idea being that his 13th Crusade will rock soooo hard that it will bust the veil between realspace and the warp as the forces fight their way towards Terra.  I'm not a fan of that as it begs the question as to why didn't Horus try something similar, and it also puts the Chaos forces in a much stronger position.  Normally as the crusade would advance, Abaddon would be forced to worry about things like 'flanks' and 'supply routes'.  Throw an ever expanding warp storm trail in there, and that all goes away since the Imperium isn't going to go fight in a wapr storm, so no attacks on the flank and rear of his advance, and his supply train is secured (although still at some risk because, you know, warp storms).

 

I'm not sure that Abaddon taking Terra would automatically lead to Chaos running everything.  Most of the CSM forces don't have much of a plan beyond the point where the Emperor's head is put on a pike for public display.  So there'd be crazy infighting the second the war was over.  Not to mention various levels of warp devotion, various levels of interest in actually warpifying everything, and finally, various levels of interest in actually living in a galaxy that's 100% Eye of Terror.  Remember that the Traitor Legions aren't living in the Eye because it's got good public transportation and a great k-12 school system, they're there because the Imperial forces kicked their ass all the way across the galaxy until that was the only hole they could hide in.  Do the Word Bearers think it's the best thing ever?  Probably.  Do Khornate and Slaaneshi forces not really give a fig where, or in what environment, they get choppy/leg humpy?  Definitely.  What about the Iron Warriors, Thousand Sons, Night Lords, Alpha Legion, and Red Corsairs though?  It's not like the 1k Sons were super psyched when they ended up on the Planet of the Sorcerers, and the other forces, while sometime chaotic, do focus more on using Chaos as a means towards an end, not as the end goal itself.

 

Us CSM players make a point of saying our dudes are hard core since they've been living in Hell for the past 10,000 years.  That doesn't mean that they particularly like living in Hell, would want to expand the bounds of Hell to include the entire galaxy, or wouldn't take the opportunity presented by an Imperium free galaxy to trade in their Hell Estate for a quiet little planet on the galactic fringe that they could crush under their relatively non-chaotic booted heel.

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, but CSM being "rivals to the throne" wouldn't exactly be new. After all, he is surrounded by them 24/7. Each CSM is a potential rival for the command of the Black Legion. That's why we see him crushing the life out of anyone who is even rumored to be capable of defeating him.

[Spacefrisian]

Some notes.

 

Chaos is chaotic by nature, however Abbadon does a fine job keeping them ordered.

 

Chaos needs mortals to keep themselves sustained, humans will be around even if Abby succeeds.

 

If by any chance Abby succeeds and is left to deal with them bugs and metal heads do refer to 2nd note, would be suprised if the big 4 will prevent that from happening, as to how thats another question.

[Wade Garrett]

What about the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, and Red Corsairs?

 

Perturabo, Barban Falk, Krieg Acerbus, Magnus, Voldorius, and Champion Caleb all think a Galaxy spanning Eye of Terror would be just spiffy.

[Prodigal Son of Magnus]

What about the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, and Red Corsairs?

Perturabo, Barban Falk, Krieg Acerbus, Magnus, Voldorius, and Champion Caleb all think a Galaxy spanning Eye of Terror would be just spiffy.

When have Magnus or Perturabo ever said that?

[Kol Saresk]

 

 

What about the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion, Night Lords, Thousand Sons, and Red Corsairs?

Perturabo, Barban Falk, Krieg Acerbus, Magnus, Voldorius, and Champion Caleb all think a Galaxy spanning Eye of Terror would be just spiffy.

When have Magnus or Perturabo ever said that?

 

 

Everyone Wade listed is a Daemon. While the fact they are material forms transformed into warp forms means they can survive indefinitely in the Materium, they draw their power from the warp. The stronger the connection, the stronger the power. That's why we see Angron building obelisks on Armageddon. To strengthen the connection of his host and himself.

[daveNYC]

Angron built what where?  That in IA or something?

 

Yeah, daemon princes and daemon primarchs might be digging an expanded EoT.  The extra space to spread their wings (literally) would be a bonus.  Even then though, there's no reason to think that everyone is on the same page.  Magnus doesn't get out much these days, and even in 30k he spent a fair chunk of his time astral projecting himself to hang out with people.  Is a galaxy wide realspace warp overlap something that he's going to throw his weight behind?  Or Perturabo, another guy who doesn't get out all that much, what exactly is he going to do with a galaxy of daemon planets?  His talents for architecture and siege warfare mean little in an environment where reality can be reshaped by will alone, either he is on the planet shaping it to his needs (no challenge) or he's not on the planet, so everything he created turns into mulch the second someone from Team Nurgle shows up.

 

I'm not saying that they would necessarily be opposed to the idea, but I'd like a solid motive for it.  Something on a similar level to Lorgar's, something more complex then moar power.

 

There's also the assumption of obedience on the part of the non-daemonic marines.  Tearing down the Imperium is something that most everyone can get behind.  Expanding the EoT so that the entire galaxy is in Hell might not be that attractive to guys who have been forced to live there for the past few thousand years.

[Kol Saresk]

As far as I know its in pretty much everything concerning the First War for Armageddon. He attacked the planet and then "wasted time" building altars in order to strengthen his daemonic host and keep it in the material realm longer. This delay resulted in his campaign slowing down and the Loyalists gathering enough momentum and reinforcements to strike back. The first time I personally read it was in Conquest of Armageddon but as far as I know, it's pretty much everywhere, including the most recent "The Emperor's Gift".

IIRC, everytime we've seen Magnus in a post-Heresy environment, he has to be summoned. Which seems rather different than the other Primarchs who can just go strolling about. So either Magnus is perpetually weak, or the destruction of his physical body prior to his ascension has resulted in him being more daemonic and thus having a less stable connection to the material realm. So a constant warp presence would actually allow him to have more leeway in actually going wherever he wants. Such as Fenris. Which isn't exactly too far from the Eye of Terror.

True, obedience can be tricky. Then again, all Abaddon needs is "the bare minimum" to do what he needs and it won't really matter what the rest think. Besides, the Black Legion has more and bigger guns than they do.

[Rain]

It's been implied that Magnus is still not entirely on board with the whole Chaos thing, the recent BL supplement mentions that he was the only primarch to outright refuse to even see Abaddon, though Ahriman pledged his forces to the Black Crusade in his stead. But yeah, demon summoning is easier the closer one is to an open warp conduit of some sort, and demons need such conduits to remain corporeal. Whether this includes demon princes or not is up for debate and may even depend on the type of demon prince. In either case, the BL supplement also describes Abaddon's endgame as the "Daemon Imperium" described as:

 

Again the vision shifted, taking Abaddon back to the streets of Terra. All around him, Daemons feasted on the souls of men, and Humanity was reduced to eternal slavery and death. So close to the Golden Throne, Abaddon could sense that the Astronomicon had been extinguished and a million worlds had been plunged into eternal night. Across the galaxy, reality was crumbling, turning worlds into realms of madness and chaos.

Looking up from the carnage on the streets, Abaddon could see the Eye of Terror dominating the sky, a terrible red stain upon the stars that seemed to grow with every passing moment – it was now visible from every world in the Imperium. He knew then, without a doubt, that the age of Man had come to an end.

 

So yeah, it's not that great, basically reality overlaps with the warp and the material world comes to an end. Ah well, at least there's less paperwork.

[Valaskjalf]

"IF" he succeeds? Surely it's "when"

[daveNYC]

I'd like to think that Abaddon is smart enough to figure out what Humanity being reduced to slavery and death and the Age of Man coming to an end would actually mean to his usefulness to the Dark Gods.  They do have TVTropes in the future, right?

 

Magnus is an interesting one.  My personal take is that he isn't actually a daemon prince (as in he's not an amalgam of his original primarch energy and some Tzeentchian energy).  He's just his original warp self that had been thinly wrapped in his original body.  That's why his ability to physically manifest depends on possession (bonus points if it requires possessing one of his sons).  It's funny because it means that he's actually able to leave Tzeentch and do his own thing (and maybe get stomped, but whatever) but he's so broken by they way Tzeentch used him back in the day that he think he's a tool of Tzeentch because everything he touches turns to ash (just as planned).

 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Abaddon hasn't thought out any plan beyond tearing down the palace and setting fire to the golden throne, which is also funny considering what with the throne currently holding that web gate closed.  

[Kol Saresk]

Death, slavery and the Age of Man coming to an end? Sounds like the 40K Imperium of Man.

[Sception]

How's this for a hypothetical?

 

Abaddon's grand vision manages to succeed, but the Grey Knights & inquisition in conjunction with the mechanicum of mars manage to transport the entire sol system to a protected region close to the galactic core before the Red Path reaches them.  The Grey Knights blame the terran lords for failing to stop Abaddon, and slaughter them, turning the reigns over to the Inquisition.  Even so, the Imperium's central control is be broken, but Abaddon's final victory is snatched from his grasp.  Without the influx of Black Ships to feed him, the Emperor has to be put into a state of near-stasis to reduce his hunger, dimming the astronomicon and making warp travel much more difficult, though not impossible.  Ultramar becomes the most populous and coherent human empire, while other space marine factions rule limited realms around their core recruiting worlds.  The Remnants of the old Imperium operate from their hidden system, striking back against chaos where they can & attempting to assert their authority over fractuous space marine empires, but find that authority denied, and are forced to raid human worlds and systems to kidnap psykers to feed the Emperor, leading to further conflict.

 

The expansion of Abaddon's new empire stalls in the face of a massive tyranid incursion following the course set by leviathan.  Abaddon is forced to defend his territory, but with tyranids being primarily soulless the slaughter fails to provide the psychic energy needed to continue the eye's expansion, and it begins to slowly retract.  The tyranid incursion also stalls, as worlds corrupted by daemonic influence fail to provide suitable nourishment even when the defenders can be overwhelmed, the taint of chaos causing many norn queens to die or go sterile.

 

Without the pressure from an organized, pan-galactic human imperium, Necron, Tau, and Ork territories grow considerably, before running into conflict with each other, while Eldar holdings are held in check by the dramatically increased influence of chaos.  The perfect host which allowed Slaanesh to possess a blackstone fortress survives the destruction of said fortress, and Slaanesh itself stalks the physical galaxy in mortal form, hunting for eldar souls to consume, & seeking access to the webway.  The craftworlds are dismantled and moved into the webway piecemeal, forming craftworld eldar webway colonies, in an attempt to escape the incarnate god's attention.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Mal.  You're awesome.