Using space wolves rules on other models ?

[GreyCrow]

Hi guys !

 

This is probably going to get me a lot of flakk from you wolf-players, but I recently obtained the space wolve codex, and god I'm fond of the rules !

 

They are really how I envisionned the space marine army to be organized like. I absolutely love the wolf scouts (and to be honest, why would you send your novices in deep infiltration missions behind enemy lines... stupid Roboute !) and the overall "Elite" feel of the Codex. The possibilities with the Wolf Guard are very interesting as well...

It also reminds me of the feel of older space marine codices (I'm a 3rd ed vet, coming back from retirement !).

 

One thing though... I am absolutely not a fan of the Viking theme of the army. It looks nice and very themed, but it's just not a theme for me ;)

 

My quick question was : is it possible to design a space wolf list but use models that don't have the whole wolf theme with them. I understand that this is not really possible from a fluff perspective, as the Wolves don't have any successors, but are there any other Chapters that inspired themselves from the Wolves' tactics ?

 

If I do that, how am I likely to get stoned to death by other players ? :p

 

Cheers !

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

I used to run my Sons of Tyr (Raven Guard successors) with Wolf rules back when the Marine dex was bland and uninspiring. Suited the tactics of a vanguard assault company deploying via drop pod perfectly. Never had any complaints (although the fact that their early colour schemes did in fact look quite Wolfy probably helped that).

 

It's your hobby, you choose the rules you want to use. I would advocate choosing rules that make sense thematically and are in keeping with the dubious concept of "fluff-logic" (e.g. don't try to claim that your individual Marines are GK equivalents) but it's really up to you. Anyone gives you grief, you're under no obligation to play them. Generally it's rare to find a player in real life who actually will give you grief though - I found that typically people will ask you why you chose Wolf rules over Marine rules and are actually interested to hear your reasoning behind the 'counts-as', especially if it's a fluff-based decision. Can be a good way to encourage others in your gaming group to consider fluff-based approaches to their armies more if they weren't already.*

*this falls apart when the counts-as in question is using a grot on a 40mm to represent Logan Grimnar, of course

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

The age old adage "Your army, do as you like with it" comes to mind here.

 

I love the Space Viking look and lore to the army, that's why I chose it. But there is no reason you couldn't use the SM tactical squads and other generic marine kits/models to use in your army. None what so ever.

 

Welcome back to the hobby, kiss your money goodbye now!! *waves at his own money*

 

End of Line

[Fytharin]

Don't see why you couldn't as much as it twists my gut to turn away from the Viking feel. That's the best part!!!

 

Like people have been saying it comes down to the attitude if the person you're playing against. If it was me I would have no problem with it if for nothing else to show you how true sons of Russ throw down. :P

[Schertenleib]

That's one of the big pluses of a DIY Army. It doesn't have a codex so you can use any codex you want. If you want to use the Space Wolf Codex one week and the Standard Marine dex the next it doesn't matter. If I wanted to try the Blood Angels dex and proxied my Wolf minis that would be fine. Just don't mix codices  without proper use of the Allies matrix and making it clear to your opponent.

[Vash113]

No there's absolutely nothing stopping you from using any rules you want. I use Blood Angels rules for an ally detachment in my wolves that represents Death Company as Wulfen. I represent my Raven Guard using Blood Angels rules and I represent my Imperial Fists 1st Company using the Dark Angels Deathwing rules. There's nothing saying there are no chapters out there with similar organization and/or fighting style to the Space Wolves.

 

Heck the Space Wolves list can be great for representing Iron Hands because we can place Terminator Armored Wolf Guard in command of Troops squads similar to the old background of the Iron Hands. Similarly the Space Wolves rules could be a great representation for the Black Templars. Thunderwolf Cavalry as Knights riding mechanical horses. I've even seen people representing chaos armies using the Space Marines or Space Wolves Codexies.

 

Generally as long as your using a certain set of rules for thematic or character reasons you shouldn't encounter any problems. Usually I only see people getting annoyed when someone with a "black army of death" is simply using whatever rules-set is the newest and shiniest. However a well modeled and painted army using alternate codex rules to represent it's organization, tactics or theme is usually (In My Experience) seen as pretty cool, characterful and unique.

[GreyCrow]

Wow, I have to admit that I didn't expect so much positive feedback, hehe !

 

I can totally see the appeal in the fluff of the Wolves, their theme is just not my thing. However, the rules and the units are extremely awesome !

 

Although I would feel comfortable using the rules, I wouldn't use the rules of named characters. I feel they should be reserved for proper armies, and proxying Grimnar just feels wrong, hehe ;)

 

I'll try to make an interesting list and post it in the appropriate forum for you guys to review and comment on ;)

[Fytharin]

Our drinking habits probably make us an easy going lot...good luck in your adventures :)

[infyrana]

A few of the Space Wolf players will use other codex armies to represent the 13th company.  Blood Angels Death Company rules make for a good starting point.  So I suspect that you would get a lot of positive feedback here from the Grey Wolves since it wouldn't be fitting if they went against their own ideas :)

 

I say go for it ... you might wish to use different models to represent Thunder Wolf Cavalry if you like that unit, you could probably theme it together with using your choice of models for the fenrisian wolves too.

 

I understood the representation of the 'viking' theme for the Space Wolves and I've always appreciated where it was coming from, but it took me over a decade to warm to it myself and now have a small collection of them.

[Rift Blade]

Good luck to you. You're simply a wolf of another colour. Welcome to the pack. You are not the first & won't be the last. Looking forward to seeing a list. Good Luck.

[Cate]

As everyone else said, use the rules you want for your little plastic soldiers. I am into my third decade playing the game, and I still have not met another player who been so strict with the rules that he have told me how to paint my men, as long you can explain what is what it really doesn't matter. If you been into the miniature gaming for a while and have not played against an unpainted and/or count as army, you can't call yourself a gamer.

When I started in the rogue trader era, I didn't have the money to buy new armies, it was also more or less impossible to find the miniatures where I lived at that time, so I and my friends proxied with what ever we could get our hands on, cluedo pieces, cut out cardboard-squares, lego and other miscellaneous stuff. So if you paint your plastic in pastel colours and call your chapter "Micronesian brotherhood" and use the Space wolf rules, kudos to you and welcome to the hobby.

 

A reason why you want to use the Space wolf codex is that your marine chapter is equipping the soldiers with bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon as most marine chapter are in the fluff but not in the rules. Space wolves are rules wise better in cc than Vanilla marines, have "better" scouts, awesome old men with heavy weapons , but instead we loose other stuff, like fliers, teleporting terminators, jump pack troops and those abominations called centurions.

Sure the viking/werewolf stitch can go a bit to far sometimes, but no one is forcing you or anyone else to use that stuff, I for example wouldn't be caught dead with a TWC, but others in the fang loves them. As a Scandinavian I have been force feed with the romanticized viking history so I am a bit tired of it, but I love the wolves, their bestiality, their humanity, their background in the Horus heresy, their pretend barbarianism in front of other Imperial institutions and their questioning of some of the Imperial creed.       

 

/C

[GreyCrow]

I'm amazed at how friendly you guys are, compared to other more... rule abiding battle brothers in other chapters... in blue ! :p

 

I am originally a Raven Guard player, and while I like the Tactics, I would like to experiment with something else, and maybe even ally both if I feel they are a good match !

What I like about the Wolves as I said is the very "Elite" feel of the army, which is what I am aiming for. Back in 3rd Ed, I used to play a pretty standard Codex compliant force which was decently efficient but felt quite bland. As I sold my army and now a proud owner of a few models, I'd like to go for a more Elite feel.

 

Before I start my list, I have a few questions for you :

- In terms of Troops, I am very interested by the Grey Hunters. As you mentionned, they are a bit more geared than the regular Tactical squad, and to be perfectly honest, the fact that you swap the Heavy for the special weapon makes a lot of tactical sense in my mind ! I feel like Grey Hunters should be my main Troops, but as I've never played Assault armies in 6th, is a unit of Blood Claws interesting ? They look very mean in Assault !

- Regarding the Wolf Guard, only one can join one type of squad. I can't have 2 Wolf Guard joining 2 different squad of Hunters, am I correct ? Also, is it worth pimping them out with Terminator armour and special weapons if they are going for leading a squad ?

- Long Fangs are definitely a must have ! I am more than happy to get rid of the signum for split fire, and more than happy to take Heavy weapons off my Tactical squads !

- I can see my scouts becoming Wolf scouts. Just a quick question, can my Wolf Guard Infiltrate with them ? He's counted not as an IC, and I see no clarification in the FAQs.

- Gotta have a long time thinking about HQs... I was thinking about doing 3 barely equipped HQ and 1 decked out leader.

 

I'll keep you guys update, and can't wait to see your comments !

[Cate]

If you want to play competitively Grey hunter is your go to troop choice. Blood claws might look mean, but you don't get enough bang for your buck with them, I don't use them at the moment as they do not fit in my fluff.

 

I pimp some of my Wolf guard with terminator armour, and use them as tanks, sometimes I give them chainfists, but most of the time they are equipped with SS and axe. If I was a WAAC player I would equip them with mauls as my meta has very few 3+ armour save armies, all depends on who you meet and how you deck out the rest of you GH squads and what their objective is. Only one Wolf guard can join a squad, but you can have different wolf guards leaving the original Wolf guard squad to join different squad as long as you pimp them a bit differently. 

I assume that scouts can use their special rules when joined by a Wolf guard, no one has protested yet, but then again I only use sniper/ML Scouts and rarely give them a Wolf guard.

I love to use a decked out wolf lord, the pure terror I have seen in the eyes of my foes when he charges into them can be hilarious, as it also is fun to look them in the eye when the Lone wolf does the same thing. :) Many of us use rune priest as our main HQ these days.

 

These advise I should have been giving you tomorrow as I am way to tired to do this, so take what I have said with a pinch of salt.  

 

/C 

[Vash113]

I'm amazed at how friendly you guys are, compared to other more... rule abiding battle brothers in other chapters... in blue !

I am originally a Raven Guard player, and while I like the Tactics, I would like to experiment with something else, and maybe even ally both if I feel they are a good match !

What I like about the Wolves as I said is the very "Elite" feel of the army, which is what I am aiming for. Back in 3rd Ed, I used to play a pretty standard Codex compliant force which was decently efficient but felt quite bland. As I sold my army and now a proud owner of a few models, I'd like to go for a more Elite feel.

Before I start my list, I have a few questions for you :

- In terms of Troops, I am very interested by the Grey Hunters. As you mentionned, they are a bit more geared than the regular Tactical squad, and to be perfectly honest, the fact that you swap the Heavy for the special weapon makes a lot of tactical sense in my mind ! I feel like Grey Hunters should be my main Troops, but as I've never played Assault armies in 6th, is a unit of Blood Claws interesting ? They look very mean in Assault !

Blood Claws are cool, I currently have two full Packs that I transport in Land Raider Crusaders however the lower ballistic skill and weapon skill means that in general Grey Hunters are better in combat and more useful in shooting as well. The versatility of Grey Hunters makes them far more popular in most lists than Blood Claws whose only real advantage is the larger pack size, thus more ablative wounds.

- Regarding the Wolf Guard, only one can join one type of squad. I can't have 2 Wolf Guard joining 2 different squad of Hunters, am I correct ? Also, is it worth pimping them out with Terminator armour and special weapons if they are going for leading a squad ?

Only a single Wolf Guard can join any given pack, but you can split off as many Wolf Guard to join your different packs as you want. You could have one lead Wolf Scouts while another two lead Grey Hunter Packs, another two lead Blood Claw Packs and a final one leads a Long Fang Pack, or any combination you want.

Special weapons and Terminator Armor are certainly good ideas depending on what you want to do. One common deployment is to assign a Wolf Guard Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher to a Pack of Long Fangs to yet further boost their firepower. Similarly Terminators armed with Storm Shields can be great to help shield your troops from heavy weapons fire or give them greater staying power in assaults.

- Long Fangs are definitely a must have ! I am more than happy to get rid of the signum for split fire, and more than happy to take Heavy weapons off my Tactical squads !

Yes Long Fangs are great. In general I'd suggest sticking to heavy bolters and missile launchers as those are cheaper points wise and more versatile than lascannons, also remember that a Long Fang Pack can be 6 strong and take 5 heavy weapons. Since the Devastators plastic box comes with five standing legs and one kneeling set of legs the addition of a few extra parts easily makes six heavy weapons troopers from that kit, a perfect Long Fang Pack.

- I can see my scouts becoming Wolf scouts. Just a quick question, can my Wolf Guard Infiltrate with them ? He's counted not as an IC, and I see no clarification in the FAQs.

Well the Outflank rule on page 40 of my Dark Vengeance Rulebook (I dunno what page it is on the big book) says that "During deployment, players can declare that any unit that contains at least one model with this special rule is attempting to Outflank the enemy" thus as long as one model has the rule, the whole squad can Outflank. Thus a Wolf Guard added to a Wolf Scout Pack can Outflank with the pack, similarly an Independent Character joined to the Pack before deployment can Outflank with them as well.

- Gotta have a long time thinking about HQs... I was thinking about doing 3 barely equipped HQ and 1 decked out leader.

I'll keep you guys update, and can't wait to see your comments !

Ah yes the HQs of the Space Wolves offer a wide array of choices, with Sagas, Runic Armor, Terminator Armor, Thunderwolves, Bikes and Jump Packs there are a lot of options to deck them out or transport them, more than any of the other marine codexies and it can be a bit difficult to decide which direction to go. In general Rune Priests are excellent and our codex powers are quite good, many lists include at least one Rune Priest. Battle Leaders can be a cheap addition but I like to field my Wolf Lord as my force leader.

Some automatic upgrades are Wolf Tail Talismans which grant some protection against enemy psychic powers and the Wolf Tooth Necklace which ensures that the character will always hit his opponents in combat on 3s which is great against enemy characters.

I hope those answers help and don't hesitate to ask if and when you have any questions, we're always happy to help out!

[Valerian]

To another point, I agree with the others here; it's perfectly acceptable to make a custom Chapter and use it as a "counts-as" Space Wolves force.  I did the same thing back in 3e/4e with my Lightning Strike army; they were blue with white trim, but I used the Blood Angels codex to for the rules and army selection.  When I felt like experimenting, I could use the Dark Angels, or stock Space Marine codex for them, just for kicks.  Quite fun and gives you better versatility.

 

To another point, I can see why our codex attracts you, and why you think it is superior to the strictures of the Codex Astartes, because, frankly, the way the Space Wolves organize for war is superior.  We consolidate our Heavy Weapons into small teams that can specialize in and focus on providing supporting fires and long-range anti-tank work.  Our "tactical" units, the Grey Hunters come with Ultra-grit weapons loadout, option for double Special Weapons, a Plasma Pistol, Special Close Combat Weapon, and other close combat enhancements, such as the Wolf Standard and the MotW - thus earning their status among the best Troops in the game.  We have exceptionally flexible Veterans/Elite Troops in our Wolf Guard that can mix and match TDA and Power Armour, as well as every type of weapon in the Armory, and then either work together or split apart to lead other units - a tremendous agility in organizational structure that no other Marine force has.  As already mentioned, our Scouts are experienced, too, and thus truly can fill the Elite role of Infiltration/Outflanking the enemy.  

 

There are other examples, I'm sure, but you are more than justified in wanting to use all of these distinct advantages over those codex-adherent Marines, even if you prefer a different theme for your own force - definitely no fault to be found there.

 

V

[Chief Captain Redd]

I love our Dex, and all the traditional trappings of the Vlka Fenryka. But I had a strong idea for a DIY chapter. And after playing around with other books in 4th edition I came back to our Dex. So for quite some time I've slowly built up two separate armies playing in the same dex.

 

So go for it!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Welcome brother!

 

I've always been a fan of the play what ya like eff em if they won't let you mentality. I would have no problem having a game with you. Especially if what's what was easy v to tell what's what.

 

go out and bring us glory brother

[Vash113]

Welcome brother!

I've always been a fan of the play what ya like eff em if they won't let you mentality. I would have no problem having a game with you. Especially if what's what was easy v to tell what's what.

go out and bring us glory brother

Now there's an idea, as long as it's the Space Wolf Codex being used, it's glory to the Space Wolves... hmm... I see a recruiting campaign in order. So many players don't like playing Codex: Ultramarines when they should be playing Codex: Space Marines... maybe we can recruit them to Codex: Space Wolves instead!

Mwahahahahaha!

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I like it vash.

 

I think we should call it 'project brothers from other mothers'