malorn24 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I posted this in the IF forum earlier and I guess I should have ran it in here since most of responses are rule of cool and other stuff. So lets try this with all of you Tactical Geniuses. I know not all of you run IF but if you did how would you comment? Lysander is by far my favorite IC. But with the 6th ed I find myself no longer building him into a list. I don't need him for the bolter drill. He doesn't have fortify position anymore. And he is a CPT. For the exact same amount of points I can use a CM and get an almost identical statline. Here is the difference breakdown. CM gets one more attack. CM gets OB CM gets to be in AA so gets sweeping advance CM gets access to Honor Guard Lysander get to swing a STR 10 beatstick Lysander gets relentless (not needed) Lysander gets Command Squad. So wehre does Lysander fit now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Just remember the room of cool. ;) Only joking. My friend does the same, he runs a chapter master using the lysander model in place of lysander because he feels its much better. What you need to consider the the tactical flexibility of the command squad and also the strength 10 hammer. I personally love the command squad and considering what you can load it out with its a nice unit to field, but do you really need one on your force, honour guard are very linear but what they do they do very well. The hammer is much better then the standard hammer not only because of easier to penetrate its the fact that it can actually penetrate a land raider and those 14 all round vehicles at all, adding a whole bunch of flexibility to lysander when it comes to tackling high armour vehicles. I personally would field lysander were I ever to do an imperial fist list, but I am not a rational tactical thinker. If I were I would consider if I were going to field a command squad if not I would take a chapter master no questions asked. Just my two of whatever currency you hold of value. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Uh, you can be really mean and bring both. Do you know how ridiculous that would be? I also used to field Lysander with my Ultramarines but since I can't now, I replaced him with a chapter master in terminator armor, thunder hammer, and shield eternal. Its.....better dare I say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramarine vet Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Just remember the room of cool. Only joking. My friend does the same, he runs a chapter master using the lysander model in place of lysander because he feels its much better. What you need to consider the the tactical flexibility of the command squad and also the strength 10 hammer. I personally love the command squad and considering what you can load it out with its a nice unit to field, but do you really need one on your force, honour guard are very linear but what they do they do very well. The hammer is much better then the standard hammer not only because of easier to penetrate its the fact that it can actually penetrate a land raider and those 14 all round vehicles at all, adding a whole bunch of flexibility to lysander when it comes to tackling high armour vehicles. I personally would field lysander were I ever to do an imperial fist list, but I am not a rational tactical thinker. If I were I would consider if I were going to field a command squad if not I would take a chapter master no questions asked. Just my two of whatever currency you hold of value. The only thing the chapter master is missing is the strength 10 thunder hammer but......the OB more than makes up for it. He also has that extra attack which is so important to me. I love it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malorn24 Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 As stated above I don't use Term armor on the CM. I use AA for the same effect and give up relentless so that I can perform a sweeping advance with HG. plus the term way to go cost an extra 5 points! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I think it comes down to "Do you want Honor Guard? " MC'd S10 AP1 hammer > +1A in my eyes. Otherwise, the fixed Warlord trait and reroll for LD checks is kinda nice but not game breaking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If playing Imperial Fists (and not a successor), Lysander gives you style points because he's your matching special character. If on foot, Lysander isn't much worse than a chapter master close combat wise. If playing a successor, Lysander can be a bit tacky, whether as a counts-as custom character, or a special visit from the man himself. If you or your opponent dislike special characters, then obviously... If the chapter master has a bike or even a jetpack, Lysander can't take these options.Lysander is in terminator armor. Little things like orbital bombardment or wargear options aren't really that important to me since all chapter masters have nearly identical loadouts anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 Little things like orbital bombardment or wargear options aren't really that important to me since all chapter masters have nearly identical loadouts anyways. I semi-jokingly refer to the standard TH&SE&AA as Lysander-lite anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3618364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
malorn24 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 A Lysander and a Lysander-lite (hope thats not copyrighted cause I'm going to use it) would be awesome. But one hell of a point sink. L-lite with a locator beacon n a landraider with 6 HG w banner and Lysander with 5 hammenators but wow what a punch! of course you'll end up with scouts for scoring units but still LOL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287931-lysander-vs-cm/#findComment-3619174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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