Caleth Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Hi guys, I'm new to the traitor side of things and won the chaos half of a DV box in an auction. As a bonus I got some extra Chosen and the Lord for almost nothing.What I want to know is how can I get the most from these models. I know that for example a khorne lord on a juggernaut is popular, but also that a Claw/Fist lord is as well. So should I chop up some of the chosen? Also is there a use the "Lord" models. After that I assume that chaos dreads are just as useless as SM dreads, so maybe if I convert it to have an auto cannon? I know cultists are good as late game objective grabbers and I also bought a Forge/Maulerfiend kit that I'm magnetizing so I can try both builds. Lastly where can I go from here? Thanks for any help you guys can give. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akylas Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The cultists are good as is but I'd try to convert the chosen to non melee if possible ( plasma seem a better use of them from my view). Buying the new helbrute will give you some conversion options with the only flaw being that now you have two helbrutes... I'd avoid regular Chaos Marines unless you really like them. Better to get a few cultist packs instead. From a purely competitive view I think heldrakes and/or bikers are a good buy. Plague marines and to a slightly lesser point Noise Marines are good buys for non cultist troop choices. From a beginner Chaos player. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Have a think on how you want to play. I'm converting my chosen to squad champions for example. I have seen someone (and my memory is terrible for who) change some of the bolter holders to carry special weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The trouble with the chosen models is that they are packing expensive power weapons. They cost more than Chaos Terminators. A Chosen with a power weapon is 2 points more expensive than a terminator with a power weapon and a twin linked bolter... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Have a think on how you want to play. I'm converting my chosen to squad champions for example. I have seen someone (and my memory is terrible for who) change some of the bolter holders to carry special weapons.That would be me. In fact my CSM squads are made entirely from the DV set. The Chosen with Power fist is my Aspiring Champion, and the Bolter Chosen is the normal CSM. I have converted 4 of these Bolter Chosen to hold 2 Plasma guns and 2 Melta Guns. These are the new special weapons from the new Raptors kit in fact. I don't have pics of the Melta Gunners but here is the basic Plasma Gun Squad http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae62/Yourswordismine/DV%20Crimson%20Slaughter/IMG_0691_zpsc23d42b4.jpg http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae62/Yourswordismine/DV%20Crimson%20Slaughter/IMG_0694_zps63d4da35.jpg My Khorne Chosen squad is made up of the new Aspiring Champion with Power Axe plastic Clampack and then 4 of the DV Chosen with Power Axes. Since the whole squad had axes, it made sense they would be marked Khorne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619526 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 ^^^^^ cheers Gratan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 No problem Forte. I seem to be the only Crimson Slaughter player here, so my project log isn't the most viewed. I'm surprised someone remembered my conversions! My army is a bit odd in its makeup... I am using the new chaos models entirely as I am not a fan of mixing the new aesthetic and the old. It gives me OCD fits something fierce... So I'm using the most out of the DV Chosen as I can because there are no other options for me. Is this competitive? no... If mixing Aesthetics isn't a problem for you then as Forte mentions up thread using the Chosen as unit Aspiring Champions is a good idea. If I didn't have the problems that I do and I was starting with just one or two Dark Vengeance, then I probably would have purchased the new Chaos Space Marine Attack Force. 1 CSM Squad, Rhino, 5 Raptors, 5 Terminators, Terminator Lord, and a Forge/Maulerfiend. $255 USD value in a set for only $205 USD. Otherwise, I would wait a little while and see if we get the purported Chosen/Havoc kit before buying anything else. Don't buy current Havocs yet in other words. Same goes for Obliterators since rumor has they will be getting a plastic kit soonish. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I'm using my DV-chosen as squad-champions. Edit; Except for the chosen-champion (powermace and helm in hand), he's my Dark Apostle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I guess in part what I'm trying to say is find what works for you. Read the forums here, ask advice, get an army list together that sounds like fun and then buy those models. Make that the core of your army. As you play, find what works for you and what doesn't and then buy new things to try as you go. You need to be happy with your army in order to have fun with it, both in play and in painting.<br /><br />Hope this helps. Minsc, on 12 Mar 2014 - 18:23, said: I'm using my DV-chosen as squad-champions. Edit; Except for the chosen-champion (powermace and helm in hand), he's my Dark Apostle. And a good Dark Apostle he makes too! That or a Sorcerer IMHO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggnuggath Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I would convert all the Chosen to have bolter, bolt pistol and a close combat weapon and use them as a squad of CSM. Cultists are pretty decent Hellbrute is about the same as a standard dreadnought, since reaper auto cannons are shorter range (for no good reason) and can't be taken in pairs I would tend to lean towards a las cannon or plasma cannon. The lord is a really nice model, I suppose he might work as a foot chaos lord leading a blob of cultists. In my opinion a Chaos lord needs a bike/demonic steed so that he can have the mobility to pick his fights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 And yeah... I went a little crazy with Dark Vengeance... I ended up buying 3 sets to fuel my Dark Angels, and then ended up with all the Chaos which was going unused. I decided to make an army of it since I had a pretty good core already. I got some Raptors, a Heldrake, and a Forgefiend. I was having trouble reconciling the new/old aesthetics, and then I found a fellow selling DV chosen squads for $6 a squad ($1 a model). I bought enough chosen squads so I could field two full CSM squads using the Bolter Chosen as normal Chaos Marines. Making the conversions for special weapons wasn't as hard as I thought (though the Meltaguns were a little wonky). And yeah... I probably went a little crazy... I tend to go out of my way to avoid my OCD... lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Gratan, I like your idea about using more of the Chosen as my base models, I looked and it seems they go for a pretty reasonable price on Ebay. I'm sure I can get a few squads made up for less than two boxes of regular marines would cost from GW.I've looked around and I'm not sure what the best way to go is but I like an idea a saw with using a Juggerlord and unsaddled juggernauts as spawn. I'd have to see how that plays out in game to know if I'd want to invest in the models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 @Caleth I'd give you my supplier for Chosen, but I cleaned him out as he was closing out what stock he had... $6 a squad was a pretty good deal and I bought all the ones he had since I didn't know what was going to be available in the future. I keep hoping the CSM kit would get a new plastic set to match the new aesthetics... They really do look out of place... If the new Chosen/Havoc kit is any good, I'll be buying some to flesh out and give some variety to my CSM squads... The only real downside is all the models are identical... Luckily that doesn't bother my OCD that much lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Gratan, It might bother mine but I can make due with some head swaps, I enjoy the modeling aspects far more than the painting stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Gratan, It might bother mine but I can make due with some head swaps, I enjoy the modeling aspects far more than the painting stuff. Me too, I'm a builder not a painter... sadly... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3619636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Cultists are decent pretty much as is. You might try ebay to pick up a couple more sets of DV cultists as well. I like them as backfield campers with nothing, or in big blobs with flamers, with or without rifles, escorting a fearless HQ, possibly in terminator armor to tank shots, or on a slaaneshi steed to outflank the whole pile. The lord and chosen are a tougher bunch. Lords are good, but they're happiest on rhinos Edit: bikes or daemonic steeds rather than on foot, and regardless of what weapons they take, swords aren't exactly their favorite choice. Khornate guys like the axe of blinding fury, nurgle guys like the mace or one fist and one claw, etc. The murder sword is kinda bad in practice in regular sized games, though it can be good in very small games, where your opponent is unlikely to have more than one threatening character to name. So you might want to consider either using the guy as a sorcerer - sorcerers also like to ride bikes, but they can also be decent support for infantry or rhino mounted units, and are happy enough with force swords. Or you might try converting him into a huron - replacing the sword with an axe, giving him a lightning claw/flamer arm from something. Or you might consider running your army from one of our two supplements - either Black Legion or the new Crimson Slaughter. Neither is exactly a step up from the main chaos book, mechanically, both are actually arguably a step down, really. But that said, both do have fancy swords that are actually pretty decent, if not awe inspiring. Brutes are a bit annoying. They don't cost too many points, but they're also super lackluster. 6e is not a good edition to be a walker in, especially if your max AV is 12, and especially if you mostly want to be up close, and especially if you don't really have a great way to get there. Gool model, though. You might consider converting the multimelta into a twin linked autocannon, by just replacing the melta barrels with some scratch build cannons. The chosen are a frustrating situation. The models are cool as heck, but apart from the clamshell aspiring champion, there's nothing else that matches their style, so expanding the unit means getting more DV chosen, but then you have to do some seriously effortful conversions if you don't want to end up with a bunch of the same guys in the same poses in the squad. Plus, the DV chosen are equipped all wrong. Power weapons, and especially power fists, and especially especially pair claws, are just crazy expensive on them. Even if you are taking them as a melee or escort squad, you want maybe a couple power weapons in the squad, and maybe one on the champion, and extra weapon slots should probably be special weapons - melta, in the case of a melee escort squad. But most of the time chosen are happier as a small (5 to 6) man squad carrying 3 to 6 plasmaguns (the 6th being a combi weapon on the champ) in a rhino, or infiltrating via huron or by being taken as a fallen unit from the cypher dataslate. Converting that from the starter box chosen is also super effortful, not least of all because half of them have bolters on their backpacks, so if you want to be strictly wysiwyg, those guys won't be carrying special weapons. Still, through effort and replacing weapons, a squad of six with three plasmaguns and the rest carrying basic kit (bolter, bolt pistol, close combat weapon; maybe a power weapon on the champ) is possible and not terrible in practice. If you like chosen, consider black legion. Requiring the vets upgrade isn't doing them any favors, there is no unit in our book that anyone would have batted an eye at had the vets upgrade been a free army special rule included in their points, so the more points you have to spend on it the more painful it is, and chosen have to spend more than most. That said, making them scoring actually is pretty decent for them. It also opens up another decent build - five guys with nothing but the obligatory vets and a lascannon. Decent backfield objetive campers, comparable to the 5 noise marines + blaster master build. if you're not keen on extensive conversions, and don't like units with duplicate models in them, then the remaining alternative is to use them as champions for other squads, which is perfectly fine, although the difference in style between them and our other units may annoy slightly - in addition to a different aesthetic syle in the detailing, they also have noticeably different proportions, being taller and beefier, with thicker legs, and a much smaller backpack. As a black legion player, I wanted to do something special with my chosen, so I went guts out - converting to avoid the chorus line effect, magnetizing arms and guns to swap equipment around, even making greystuff copies of their shoulderpads to various arm options would have pads matching the style they came with. The result was pretty nice: http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Chosen09_zpsce21b045.jpg http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/ChosenCMD03_zpsec16a23b.jpg http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Chosen12_zps5324facb.jpg http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z142/Malisteen/Black%20Legion/Chosen15_zps32bcf16d.jpg But also way, WAY, more work than I had anticipated, between making the shoulder pad copies, carefully chopping away the bits of the models I needed to separate, dremelling away heads that needed to be swapped out, fixing damage caused in the process via green stuff, magnetizing the shoulders, & new weapon options (mostly taken from the raptor kit), replacing the hand holding the bolter on the special weapon dudes so they could hold other guns, etc. As a black legion player, I had originally planned on doing at least another 12 of these guys (10 more with magnetized options for special weapon squads, plus two more just with lascannons), but After doing these 10, I simply do not have it in me to do any more, so for any additional units or models, I'm waiting for an actual multipart chosen kit, but who knows when that will ever show. -------------- Otherwise, getting the most out of your DV models is mostly a matter of getting good stuff to support it with. Winged princes, bikes or spawn, heldrakes, and maulerfiends (in pairs, never one on its own, and always with spawn) or nurge obliterators tend to be the standard recommendations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Awesome work Mal, I have been chopping my couple of squads about for the past month or so and only stumbled upon your thread recently, but I have got to admit I will be 'borrowing' your idea for making moulds of the shoulder pads. Hopefully they end up even half as good as yours - that is a very special squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 For shoulders I think these works: http://evilcraft.eu/chaos-shoulder-pads-no-i/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Nice though they are Excessus, I am planning on using them at Throne of Skulls so unfortunately it's a no, no - at least until I have a decent sized army. They are excellent looking however (as are the torsos) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratan Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Malisteen, those conversions are boss I considered doing something similar and promptly decided against it lol! It just seemed like way more effort than I was willing to put into a side project army. My 2 CSM squads are rather Chorus Line in appearance, but I can live with that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJL Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 With a bit of green stuff and some guitar wire you can convert the dark angels in the set to plague marines. It didnt take too long and I think they look pretty good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 For shoulders I think these works: http://evilcraft.eu/chaos-shoulder-pads-no-i/ Not quite the same style, but they'll blend into the chosen much better than regular chaos shoulder pads will. These are very cool, and I'll probably be picking some up eventually. HJL: nice conversions, I like it. Seems a good project for anyone who ended up with left over DA bits, particularly plague marines are a pretty good unit, and the actual models are rather lacking, plus come in finecast. Probably the best way to go about getting some plague marines together for anyone who doesn't want to spend the money on the FW conversion kit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
totgeboren Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I combined my DV Chosen with a box of Possessed, as I felt the new DV Chosen just clash too much with all my GW/FW Chaos Marines. I guess the only problem with my solution is that you are stuck with a bunch of Possessed! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valaskjalf Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I actually turned all my chosen into Noise Marines with BM and SBs, scratchbuilt the guns and since the models look so much different from regular troops it worked out very well. Massive mission to make those guns though, but Im sure as heck not spending a $100 on trying to get the guns from GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Gratan, You aren't the only one on here who does Crimson Slaughter. I've got two full squads built and about 18 DV chosen to put together. Got a good deal like you did. But now I'm just waiting on the book to come out along with some cash to be able to buy it. I am like you a builder though you're guy's conversions put my little piddly stuff way to shame. I'll post some pics when I get them built. DoC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/287988-getting-the-most-from-dv-models/#findComment-3620502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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