ZONKEY Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Is the lion someone that wanted to protect humanity or is it a expendable asset in the emperors, the lion maybe be aloof and cold to a degree but is he heartless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Primarchs were built to war and conquest. They were built to fulfill the Emperor's dreams. Their concerns are not directly related to being humanity protectors but conqueror's for huamnity. Of course depending of the Primarch tehy will have a better or worse relation towards humanity and progress. For instance Guilliman was concerned about the well being of his conquests and his "empire" than most. For the Lion , protecting humanity came in a second place.. he was more protector of the Emperor's dream.e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 How did the lion view the people of caliban like a brotherhood or family or just simple soldiers that he commanded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 According to the Horus Heresy books, he saw them as people to protect and lead. He had sympathy for them but always felt isolated as there was little in the way of shared experience. Furthermore, he was so far removed from most of humanity in terms of physical and mental abilities that he found it hard to connect with them. This seems to be a common theme with many of the primarchs; they find it hard to comprehend humanity fully. Some see it as weak (Ferus Mannus), others as brief and absorbed by matters they deem to be frivolous and irrelevant to their great undertaking. There were a few primarchs who did feel compassion for humanity; Vulkan most noticeably, but arguably Guilliman in terms of his ability to comprehend the Empire they were building and the reasons for doing it. But many of the primarchs question and almost fear what would happen when the Great Crusade was over. Other primarchs seem to value certain aspects of humanity. Fulgrim appreciates the arts and other cultural pursuits (I think Sanguinius does too, if memory serves). So it's a mixed bag, but many of them felt detached. The Lion was probably fairly typical in that regard but his early isolation on Caliban probably meant that he found it quite hard to connect with fellow beings, which probably gave the impression of him being rather cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Gav Thorpe has done an excellent job imo is sjhowing some of the Lions' traits in this respect. Although noble and fair he's far from humanitarian - if anything he's a WAAC guy! :lol: This attitude appears to be what alienated Astelan - through his description of how to handle a campaign vs. Orks in Angels of Death (putting the swift and succesful conclusion of the campaign before the lives of civilians that could be spared if the DAs intervened) and through the Call of the Lion where Belath (someone who obviously has the Lion's backing) is using unenecessarily ruthless tactics to bring a world to complinace. So it appears to me that humanitariansm is not one of the Lions' traits. He will coldly calculate the best tactic (and by best I mean the least costly for the Legion and the fastest in conclusion) and will not deviate from that on humanitarian concenrs. Now during the Caliban years (before the Emperor) my understanding is that he respected social hierachy and stability but had little time for explaining himself or debate his thoughts much like a Medevial King with undisputed authority. His was against the beasts was driven by his hatred towards the beasts as much as protecting the human societies he was Lording on. There is no evidence (that I'm aware of) where he got out of his way to protect anyone outside the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillyfish Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 True and that would fit the line that GW took (and may still take) with the DA, which is that they are the ultimate 40k exponents of 'the ends justify the means'. I was able to speak to Jervis Johnson at a Games Day a few years ago and that's what he said the DA were to him. The example Semper quoted above would certainly fit into that model. You could also argue that there is a fierce pragmatism there, that the Dark Angels keep the ultimate objective in sight and may have weighed the saving of a world and attendant many lives against the sacrifice of a few (albeit a fairly large number). Pragmatism over idealism. Whereas, let's say, Vulkan might have sought to save the civilians, seeing that as an objective worthy of pursuit. Both points of view have their advantages and disadvantages and their areas of contention. The Lion comes out of all of these incidents as cold, aloof and calculating. Not a likeable individual, but very, very good at what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZONKEY Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 But yet the lion and leman Russ became close friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I wouldn't say close friends but at the end they ended up with great mutual respect for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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