Did the lion ever use a ballistic weapon?

[ZONKEY]

Good afternoon after seeing some fan artwork of our primarch lion el johnson it got me wondering ....did the lion ever posses a ballistic weapon?

[Onisuzume]

Pretty sure he had at least a bolt pistol at one point, considering its a weapon of the order.

[EPK]

I concur. He carried a pistol pre-Imperium days on Caliban (and if I remembering correctly, they weren't exactly bolt pistols, something less sophisticated).

 

However did he carry one as Primarch of the 1st? I'd say yes but I can recall any mention to one... Maybe in that novella that A B-D did?

[Tanhausen]

If he were a SW, he'd have:

 

- knife

- sword

- bolt pistol

- bolter

- frag grenades

- defensive grenades

- wolf pelt

- armour

- spare pack of batteries

 

Being a DA, all he needs is:

 

- A winged helmet

[shabbadoo]

Their power armor was mentioned as being somewhat primitive, but not their weapons, which were bolt pistols and chainswords (just smaller than space marine versions).  Lion was trained mainly by Luther, and that would include the use of all the weapons of the Calibanite knights.  Lion would also no doubt train himself in the use of all of the Imperium's weapons after he was found by the Emperor, so as to know their use, capabilities, etc.  Same with the other Primarchs (they are kinda smart regarding the business of killing stuff).  So, yes, Lion had guns, because not every enemy says, "Hey!  You there!  I am going to run over to you so you can chop me with that sword you have, okay?"  Yes, on occasion Lion surely shot somebody in the face with a gun of some kind, because they were not cooperative enough to run up to him so he could cut them down with the Lion Sword.

 

Zonkey: maybe you should start a question *thread*, rather than a thread for every question that pops into your head, as it seems like you may end up having a lot of them.  Barring that, you could just Google "Lion El' Johnson", "Dark Angels", or whatever other topic you might have a question about, and probably be pointed to the 40K Wiki, Lexicanium Wiki, etc., where many answers to asked (and unasked) questions would probably be found.  After doing so, then you might hit us up the really oddball stuff (if any).

[ZONKEY]

The wikis is less than helpful regarding these questions

i guess we just don't have a primarch that warrants detail

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Zonkey,

 

First I agree with Shabbado, Just start a New questions thread we will happily answer it but the mods may end up deleting some of your question threads you have if you end up "spamming them."

 

Second there is very little on the Lion and DA as a whole I've found. It was quite frustrating initially but I think part of it is intentional in order to keep them "mysterious." However if you haven't read the horus heresy books do so. And I mean all of the books you will see little hints about all the primarchs throughout the series not just the DA specific ones. One warning with this it may cause you to want to collect multiple armies you've been warned. Also the short stories about the Primarchs and the Lion are a bit enlightening as well as Unremembered Empire has quite a bit about the Lion and DA for a book that supposedly had nothing to do with them.

 

Last bit to answer your question if I remember correctly, and I probably don't, the Lion had a Storm Bolter type weapon since it was before Storm Bolters I have no idea what to call it but I recall him using it to shoot at an enemy in a short story. If it had a name I don't remember it but he def used ballistic weapons but that's pretty anti climatic. Keep in mind a lot of the stories are going for the "cool" so having a giant primarch be one of the best swordsmen out of all the primarchs is much cooler than, he shot a gun really good and it died.

 

Hope this helps.

DoC

[Onisuzume]

If he were a SW, he'd have:

 

- knife

- sword

- bolt pistol

- bolter

- frag grenades

- defensive grenades

- wolf pelt

- armour

- spare pack of batteries

 

Being a DA, all he needs is:

 

- A winged helmet

Guess that shows how badass the DA are...

[ZONKEY]

To be honest i have kinda given up finding information through here

[Bryan Blaire]

We've gotten at least as much info out of the Horus Heresy series as any Legion has that I can tell. We have one of the highest numbers of stories over all.

 

Written in order of first main focus appearance in the HH series (ie, the earlier the name on the list, the closer to the beginning of the HH series the Legion/faction was introduced as the main player in a story)

Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus: 3 (2 Anthology)

Death Guard: 1

Emperor's Children: 1 (1 Anthology)

Dark Angels: 2.25 (3 Anthology)

Alpha Legion: 1 (1 Anthology)

Word Bearers: 3.5 (1 Anthology)

Adeptus Mechanicum: 1 (1 Anthology)

Adeptus Custodes: (1 Anthology)

Space Wolves: 1 (1 Anthology)

Sisters of Silence: (1 Anthology)

Emperor: (1 Anthology)

World Eaters: (1 Anthology)

Thousand Sons: 1 (1 Anthology)

Imperial Assassins: 1

Ultramarines: 2 (1 Anthology)

Imperial Fists: (3 Anthology)

Raven Guard: 1 (2 Anthology)

Iron Warriors: 1 (1 Anthology)

Iron Hands: (1 Anthology)

Blood Angels: 1.25

Night Lords: (2 Anthology)

Salamanders: 1

White Scars: 1

 

That's about as far as I can get, and takes us all the way up through Scars. I did not include all the little novellas or the audiobooks, so the number can clearly be disputed. Additionally, since Unremembered Empire has so much more than just the Ultramarines, I made the less than unbiased decision to split that book 1/2 for the UM, 1/4 for the BA and 1/4 for the First Legion.

 

Regardless of how it is split, we can all see that the Dark Angels have some of the best coverage in the Horus Heresy series (only the Sons of Horus and Word Bearers have better and only the Ultramarines get in the "tying" range), and we actually have a pretty decent set of stories outside of the HH as well. The First Legion and the Lion are hardly unknowns or lacking in information.

 

The double bolter before a Storm Bolter was called a "combi-bolter".

[ZONKEY]

I don't have access to the dark angels horus heresy novels, that is why I tried to enquire through here

[Cactus]

Zonkey, the Lion doesn't have a 'trademark' ranged weapon that he uses consistently and I don't think he's yet been shown using one in the Horus Heresy series. Of course that doesn't mean he never did. There's a scene in The Lion where he's selecting weapons from his personal armoury. Although he eventually chooses a pair of swords I'll have a look tonight and see if it describes any guns.

I think part of the lack of detail is that "this is Guy, he wears X, uses Y, gets on well with A and hates B" often makes for quite a dull story. Details like that are revealed through the narrative when it's appropriate. Several aspects of the Lion's character and the circumstances of the Horus Heresy mean that his narratives don't always include that information. Where it does exist we'll help to tease it out.

I don't see a problem with a thread for each question. They're each valid topics for this sub-forum and I would rather not try to discuss the Lion's wargear, the reason for the Deathwing's white armour, the Fall of Caliban and more all in one thread.

[Gillyfish]

Cactus is right about the Lion's weaponry. In fact, I seem to recall one of the anthology stories depicting him choosing which weapons to take from a whole room full of them. I believe that was an ADB story, so you never know, he may be along to tell you what he had in mind.

 

I do recall that focusing on some of his close combat weapons more than ranged though. Certainly his signature weapon ought to become the Lion Sword at some point (although it might be quite interesting if that turned out not to be the case).

 

So ultimately it might be up to you - a particularly well crafted boltgun or boltpistol perhaps?

 

 

I don't have access to the dark angels horus heresy novels, that is why I tried to enquire through here 

 

They are well worth a read if you can get hold of them. The local library might be an option worth exploring if you don't have the funds to hand.

 

As to the other part of your comment. You'll find that we are usually a friendly bunch and you'll see that some of your threads have given rise to some interesting conversations already. One thing that does occur to me though is, why are you particularly interested in the Lin? Is it just a general interest, or are you planning a sculpt or conversion and want to get a better insight into his character?

 

If you can give us a little more of your thinking then you'll probably find that we can provide more help (or more specific help). :)

[Azoriel]

The scene with the Lion's "armoury" takes place in the short story entitled "The Lion" by Gav Thorpe.  A whole host of melee weapons are described, but oddly enough no ranged weapons (see below).  I could've sworn ADB gave the Lion a pistol in "Savage Weapons", but that wasn't the case either; the closest thing to it was the Lion taking a stance that was half-knight/half-gunslinger, but nothing about actually having a gun on his person.  Since the Lion seems to strongly favor longswords (to include hand-and-a-half and strictly two-handed ones), I'd say a primarch-sized bolt pistol would seem the most likely, and maybe a combi-bolter (combi-plasma?) for terminator operations.

 

 

            The walls of the chamber were covered with weapons of dazzling variety, either made for the primarch or seized as spoils of conquest from the hundreds of cultures he had encountered during the Great Crusade. It had begun with his first Calibanite short sword, presented to him by Luther on acceptance into the knightly order; that simple blade held pride of place at the centre of the display.
            It was the one affectation he allowed himself, this collection of weaponry. He had spent long times here contemplating the many ways mankind had devised to kill an enemy, though of late his throne chamber had been a more regular haunt. He paused for a moment of thought, moving along the walls, touching a hand to favourite pieces, running a gauntleted finger along blades and spikes in appreciation of their craftsmanship. In war, just as in other pursuits, mankind was creative, showing insight and genius even with the most barbaric level of technology.
            Many of the weapons were too small for his fist and were mounted for ornamentation only, while others served a different purpose in his hands: swords for normal men wielded as knives by the Lion. Some were traditional, ancient designs, while others had monomolecular edges, power field generators, electro-fields and other technological improvements.
            There were spatha, longswords, bastard swords, mortuary swords, flambards, rapiers, sabres, scimitars, khopeshes, colichmardes, tulwars, shotels, falchions, misericordes and cutlasses; myrmex, cestus and knuckle dusters; baselards, stilettos, dirks and daggers; cleavers, sickles and kopis; mattocks, clubs, picks, maces, flails, morning stars, mauls and war hammers; hatchets, tomahawks, hand axes, double-bladed axes, long-bearded axes and adzes; pikes, partisans, fauchards, sarissas, voulges, Lochaber axes, boarspears, tridents, halberds, scythes, half pikes and hastas.

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Thanks Azoriel maybe I just thought I had read a description of a Ballistic Weapon in that list.

 

Bryan, I know a Combi Bolter is a double bolter (Collect chaos as well) just could have sworn I saw something like a one line comment about the Lion shooting something with a ranged weapon. Or I could be mixing it up with one of the other gazillion scenes in Horus Heresy I've read. I appreciate the help though.

 

Now that I read Cactus' post I realize he's right. All the questions posted are valid and the Forum for us DA's has been a bit slow on fluff questions etc so I like it. Ask away Zonkey hopefully we can help.

 

Fully agree with Gillyfish on giving us some kinds of heads up on what you are trying to accomplish or if you are just looking for general info. I also agree with him if you can get the Horus Heresy models in "order" I absolutely recommend it. The first three obviously need to be read in order but after that you can jump around and have a good idea of what is going on. However I seem to notice reading them in published order seems to help me pick up little nuances at least.

 

Eventually i'm going to get the whole series in Paperback because I love books and honestly these are some awesome stories. (Not life changing writing or anything but good)

[ZONKEY]

Thank you for the information, seem the lion is a big fan of close combat weapons, thought i am always curious why a primarch would not have any ranged weapons, ok it might not look as good but Mortarion had his "lantern" pistol which was a unknown construct 

[Chaplain Lucifer]

A ranged weapon is limited in power and ammuntion... But a primarch with a well built melee weapon can be much more destructive than any conceivable man portable ranged weapon.

[march10k]

Actually, the lion's most potent weapon had considerable range...his icy glare!  It's been known to stop both of a traitor marine's hearts at fifty paces...

[ZONKEY]

Wasn't that Russ secret psyker power?

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Nah Russ just flexed his muscles and the sonic boom of awesomness caused women to swoon and chaos to keel over and die.