brother_contagion Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I was wondering about the Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements. What do each of these supplements have that differ from the Chaos Codex? Also, how are they different from each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Well oddly enough I was just thinking about this topic, and our dataslates. Black Legion - VotlW is required if a unit can take it. This is a pretty meaningful tax. Chosen are always troops, and you get (with Abby I believe) an option to upgrade terminators to be pretty strong, but too expensive. Crimson Slaughter - VotLW is DENIED except for Cult units. Fear is army wide. Possessed are different, and troops, and you can FURTHER buff Chosen, but they dont score. The artifact list is pretty decent, though if I remember, the warlord traits are weakish? I would have to get on my other computer to confirm and my wifes on it... So far (as I have not read the CS supplement) it appears to leave the BL supplement WELL in the dust, and is probably better than the CSM pure codex as well, for most things. It certainly is a better option for ally fodder. Oddly enough it also does Word Bearers better than the main book, which is a kick to the groin for any of our fanatical brothers... In addition to this, we have the Belakor and Cypher dataslates. I like Belakor, but can give Cypher a miss personally, but that was just a kneejerk reaction to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 That pretty much sums It. Both have different artifacts from the parent book. Parent book has the best weapons (brand, mace, ax), black legion has Eternal Warrior, memory (good psyker upgrade), and spineshiver (decent daemon weapon for chewing up troops, not as good as the parent book weapons). Slaughter has 2+ save, divination (better psyker upgrade), soul-sucking sword (decent challenge weapon, but need to charge it up by killing at least 3 regular dudes before getting stuck in a challenge with anything dangerous, also not as good as parent book weapons). Black Legion must take vets, but doesn't get anything automatic for doing so, and vets is kinda not worth the points on a lot of units. Slaughter can't take vets, which doesn't really hurt anything, and get fear for their trouble, which is negligible, but whatever, it's bonus. Crimson Slaughter get troop possessed, with a new possessed table, but the table is at best a lateral shift, and they remain a pretty terrible unit. Remains to be seen if anybody can make anything useful out of them, but for the most part they're still not worth fielding. Black Legion gets troop chosen, which are kinda baddish, especially when required to buy vets. But they're not as bad as possessed, and there are a few interesting unit builds worth trying (5 man backfield campers with lascannons, multiple 6 man squads in rhinos with 3+ plasma). Black legion get a terminator upgrade if fielding abaddon, but it's nowhere near worth the cost, especially when you tack on the prohibitively expensive vet tax on terminators. Slaughter get a 10 point upgrade to give a single chosen champ pref enemy, which is nice on them, but it's just the one unit and can be sniped, so... yeah. Black Legion can take any parent book special characters. Whether the slaughter can is still up in the air. Black Legion has decent warlord traits. Slaughter has pretty lousy traits, but if you can take parent book characters you can get around that via huron. All in all, Black Legion is a step down from regular chaos marines, but they do have a couple interesting options. Crimson Slaughter seem to be a lateral shift from chaos marines, trading daemon weapons for artificer armor & divination. If they have access to all the parent book special characters they might come out a bit ahead, if not they might be a bit behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 remember the warlord traits aren't always an issue as the BRB ones can be also good depending on your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_contagion Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 So the Crimson Slaughter supplement would be a better buy than the Black Legion? I guess unless you don't want the Codex special characters? Does this also disallow you to take the Codex daemon weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 CS would be better [although that depends if you want to use the supplement as main codex or ally one. a BL sorc on a bike +10 cultists is ok , if someone is runing a biker deathstar]. In general the the relics should have been in the main book , apostol should have made possessed troops etc, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think it will, normally you can only choose relics and warlord traits from the book you choose your primary from. So if crimson slaughter is your primary you got to do with whats in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think it will, normally you can only choose relics and warlord traits from the book you choose your primary from. So if crimson slaughter is your primary you got to do with whats in there. no you choose relics from what ever book the unit is form, an allied BL sorcerer still buys BL relics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The point is, yes, black legion or crimson slaughter relics replace parent relics, and are not in addition to them, so the crimson slaughter does not have access to daemon weapons. You can ally with another brand of chaos marines to take their relics on an allied HQ, but doing so eats your ally slot, so you aren't allying with daemons, guard, or otherwise. On the up side, you actually get to use the battle bros' designation (remember you still can't ride each others' transports), but on the down side you don't really get access to any units you couldn't already take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Oddly enough it also does Word Bearers better than the main book, which is a kick to the groin for any of our fanatical brothers... How is this a kick to the groin? This is awesome! I'm completely psyched, as any Word Bearer player should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Depends on how much you care about the 'veterans of the long war' upgrade as a thematic marker. If you care, then it's not so great for bearers, as they don't have access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Depends on how much you care about the 'veterans of the long war' upgrade as a thematic marker. If you care, then it's not so great for bearers, as they don't have access. That's hardly something worth feeling sad over. I like veterans of the long war, but I'll take Fear over that any day, far more thematic in terms of my Word Bearers anyway. Even for those who do care, its a miniscule sacrifice for an absolute plethora of sexy possessed opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Wow chosen as troops without the need for getting the one and only playable Black Legion character. Someone must have thought realy hard about this supplement. And Crimson Slaughter doesnt seem to be that much special either. I bet that when Nightlords get one where you can take Raptors and Bikes as troops (yes those 2 are terror related, them bikers are hells angels ), when Alpha legion comes out you can upgrade all units with Infiltrate and an Iron Warriors supplement will allow you for 5 men Obliterator units. Iam a genius, maybe i should work for GW and rush 100+ supplements with 0 content from its original incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 What are you talking about? The black legion is huge, with hundreds of warbands, Abaddon doesn't personally lead them on every outing. And the supplement allows you to take the other special characters as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 We must remember that there is no such thing as special characters anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 What are you talking about? The black legion is huge, with hundreds of warbands, Abaddon doesn't personally lead them on every outing. And the supplement allows you to take the other special characters as well. Not including the Non-BL Sons of Horus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 How about units from FW or dataslates that "can be selected as an XX choice in a detatchment chosen from Codex: Chaos Space Marines" - are those legit in a BL/CS detatchment, since those are supplements to C:CSM? Like, Be'Lakor as Warlord with CS primary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So, at 2000+ points, you could have a BL Detatchment and a CS detatchment, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No. You could have a doubled Black Legion primary detachment, and a doubled Crimson Slaughter allied detachment, but you can't take the double primary from two different supplements and then ally something else, nor can you take two different allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No. You could have a doubled Black Legion primary detachment, and a doubled Crimson Slaughter allied detachment, but you can't take the double primary from two different supplements and then ally something else, nor can you take two different allies. Ahh so there are some FOC barriers for GW to break in 7th :) Thanks for the quick answer Mal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 no prob. Honestly wouldn't be shocked at this point to see them just drop force orgs & distinct codeces altogether and go with the APO style 'bring whatever you want from any book to any game' model, where the question of whether a particular combination is fluffy or balanced enough to run together is left entirely to players, and some arbitrary bonus is given to nominally address points inequalities between the two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Next we'll have legal Genestealer Cults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 What are you talking about? The black legion is huge, with hundreds of warbands, Abaddon doesn't personally lead them on every outing. And the supplement allows you to take the other special characters as well. Oh didnt know the regular Chaos Spacemarines dex had another Black Legion character besides Abbadon, what page is he on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 pg 93: Chaos Lord pg 94: Sorcerer, Daemon Prince, Warpsmith, Dark apostle The Black Legion supplement has unique artifacts to distinguish such characters from those of other chaos forces as well. See also, Black Library Dataslate: Be'Lakor. I am not arguing that the Black Legion book does a great job of representing the legion, it doesn't. But you were implying that making chosen troops was meaningless because somehow every black legion player should be running abaddon in every game of every points value, which is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfalypse Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Gonna do a Possessed-Star and take it to a tournament :P Daemons Primary Karios Heralds with Grimoire Possessed x18 If they roll up their 3++ on their own you let it go, if they do not you can buff them and control the middle of the board. Gonna be soooooooo bad, but I cant wait :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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